Regretting Grey Divorce

[haha]

I am living proof the idea one must be married/partnered or the like to be happy is a myth. In fact, given current trends it may just be an illusion:

Why Couples Divorce After Decades of Marriage

In spite of mounting evidence that American-style marriage only makes sense for someone who can see their way to profit from it, people keep doing it. What other long term, open-ended contract would sane people agree to? Every solvent married person is part of a divorce attorney's prospect inventory.

Ha

 

[Chuckanut]

FWIW, this is what worked for me. Your friend can take what he wishes and leave the rest:

1. Forget high priced counseling. Find a good divorce recovery group. One will learn that you can survive, prosper and find a new life w/o the other person even after 20+ years. That may be all you need to get through it, But, if necessary, use anti-depressants or anti-anxiety drugs for a limited time.

2. Don't let the person who wants the divorce pull all the strings. Protect yourself legally, financially, emotionally and socially. Don't do things out of spite or hate, but do take steps to protect yourself. And include the steps necessary to repair you life. Don't worry if some of the steps offend the departing spouse as long as they are not done for revenge or other nasty motives.

3. At the most it's 50% your fault. If one person has been unfaithful, that is 100% their fault.

4. Early on, forgiveness isn't even on the table. Later it is best to forgive and not hold grudges. Bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. But, forgiveness does not mean you have to be 'friends' or pretend you were not hurt or allow yourself to be hurt again. Be civil.

5. Get on with repairing the damage to your life and making a better life for yourself, children, etc. It's a bit trite but very true: "Living well is the best revenge".

 

[LastOfTheBoomers]

I've seen more gray divorces as well - both among my siblings and previous coworkers. A couple of financial observations - a woman I worked with - early 50's - was going through a long drawn out divorce - one day I commented about the new 401K match - and she said she stopped contributing because she was going to give half of it away. So she lost about 2 years of contributions and matching.

My brother had to split his pension - a good 35 year DB COLA - they were married for 30 years.

Those are just two examples - back to the Original question - I would say not a lot of regrets - mainly because of age - move on fast live my life have fun - seems to be the mantra

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I am thinking the number is higher simply because the stigma isn't as prevalent as it once was.

One of my Dad's happy hour buddies was visiting his son for Christmas and decided he was done with his marriage. He never went home and is still living with his son (happened last Christmas). He's 85 years old. Talk about a damn mess...

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[Sunset]

FWIW, this is what worked for me. Your friend can take what he wishes and leave the rest:

4. Early on, forgiveness isn't even on the table. Later it is best to forgive and not hold grudges. Bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. But, forgiveness does not mean you have to be 'friends' or pretend you were not hurt or allow yourself to be hurt again. Be civil.
......

I know for years I thought the work forgiveness meant you had to say something to the other person. Later I realized it just means to let go of the anger.
It helps to realize in some cases the other person is damaged or flawed or selfish and their actions really had little to do or nothing to do with yourself.
They would have done the same thing no matter who was in your seat, and probably will again.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I got married young to someone 9 years older that ended up being very controlling. It was taking a huge toll on my health. At one point I was so tense that my neck was literally strangling my own arms. The neuro doc told me to figure out what was wrong with my life and fix it. No one except my parents and sister knew I was miserable for all those years. I hung in until the youngest graduated HS. I was 44 and he was 53. Now we are both happily remarried. Our friends were shocked because no one knew how miserable I was. I took him to counseling on 3 different times during our long 22 year marriages trying to fix the marriage and eventually I chose to just survive.

 

[Nemo2]

...ended up being very controlling.

I find this quite interesting, (not wishing to pry regarding specifics), but I've been divorced once, widowed once, and am now very happily married......but, (not that I wanted to), I think I would've essentially risked my life had I attempted to 'control' any of the three.

 

[Walt34]

My brother had to split his pension - a good 35 year DB COLA - they were married for 30 years.

Depending on the circumstances that can be very reasonable. My younger sister was a SAHM for ~22 years (2 kids) so her employment opportunities were limited. The ex-BIL was an FAA flight controller, then a supervisor and retired a GS-15 with a CSRS pension - the good one. DB COLA, health insurance, etc. He fought it (the jerk) but for once reason prevailed in the court.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Nemo: when I first started to live with my current husband I told him that if he ever swore at me, yelled at me, tried to boss me around, etc to make sure he was packing to leave at the same time. I had enough of that crap. WE have now been together happily for 18 years.

 

[Nemo2]

Nemo: when I first started to live with my current husband I told him that if he ever swore at me, yelled at me, tried to boss me around, etc to make sure he was packing to leave at the same time. I had enough of that crap. WE have now been together happily for 18 years.

OK....DW says if it hadn't been for the kids she'd've left her previous husband long before she did, (as it was, as soon as the offspring were independent, she was out the door).......he expected her to do everything while he did as he pleased.

She already had a B.Sc. but raised the kids as a stay at home mom.......prior to leaving, she returned to school for certification as a software developer and was left upon graduation, (divorce lawyer told her she could get a lot more but she said "I just want this and I'm gone)......he, apparently, was oblivious and it came as quite a surprise.

 

[futboljim]

Depending on the circumstances that can be very reasonable. My younger sister was a SAHM for ~22 years (2 kids) so her employment opportunities were limited. The ex-BIL was an FAA flight controller, then a supervisor and retired a GS-15 with a CSRS pension - the good one. DB COLA, health insurance, etc. He fought it (the jerk) but for once reason prevailed in the court.

I'm younger, and on FERS, but this is similar to my situation. I don't know their details, but I never would fight against her share of the pension. It is a tough career, but the money is there, enough for us both to be ok in retirement, so long as we mind our p's and q's.

 

[HadEnuff]

I got divorced after 20 years of marriage. It was hell (the divorce, not the marriage). I was the one who initiated the split-up. I was 42 at the time. I had been increasingly unhappy in my marriage for at least 7 years. Among the many mistakes I made was keeping that unhappiness to myself thinking it would go away. Nobody knew. Amazingly, even my wife did not know, and when I finally told her, she was devastated. I don't know if I was that good at pretending, or we were just that disconnected. To this day I don't know how I could have been that miserable for that long and have her so unaware of it.

Anyway, we did the counseling, etc. all aimed at trying to find out what was "wrong" with me. Turned out, what was wrong with me was that I was married to a person I did not love enough to be married to. And my "ah Hah!" moment was when I realized that for me, the only reason to be married to a person is because you love them enough to want to be married to them. Not fear of financial consequences, not "for the children", not because you don't want to burden your parents or your friends, etc etc. My ex is a fine person, and that just made it harder. But, 20-some years later I am convinced we are all better for it. Our kids have recovered, have good relationships with both of us, as well as with our subsequent partners, and now that we are "gray", we are all in a better place. And we both had 20-some years to recover from the financial hit we BOTH took to finance our divorce, so we are now both enjoying financially secure retirements.
It was hell to go through, but I'm so glad I didn't live a lie for another 20 years.
One other note, most struggling marriages put on one face for friends and family, and have another reality behind their closed doors, which is why friends and family are often so shocked when it becomes public that they are splitting up.

 

[haha]

I got divorced after 20 years of marriage. It was hell (the divorce, not the marriage). I was the one who initiated the split-up. I was 42 at the time. I had been increasingly unhappy in my marriage for at least 7 years. Among the many mistakes I made was keeping that unhappiness to myself thinking it would go away. Nobody knew. Amazingly, even my wife did not know, and when I finally told her, she was devastated. I don't know if I was that good at pretending, or we were just that disconnected. To this day I don't know how I could have been that miserable for that long and have her so unaware of it.

Anyway, we did the counseling, etc. all aimed at trying to find out what was "wrong" with me. Turned out, what was wrong with me was that I was married to a person I did not love enough to be married to. And my "ah Hah!" moment was when I realized that for me, the only reason to be married to a person is because you love them enough to want to be married to them. Not fear of financial consequences, not "for the children", not because you don't want to burden your parents or your friends, etc etc. My ex is a fine person, and that just made it harder. But, 20-some years later I am convinced we are all better for it. Our kids have recovered, have good relationships with both of us, as well as with our subsequent partners, and now that we are "gray", we are all in a better place. And we both had 20-some years to recover from the financial hit we BOTH took to finance our divorce, so we are now both enjoying financially secure retirements.
It was hell to go through, but I'm so glad I didn't live a lie for another 20 years.
One other note, most struggling marriages put on one face for friends and family, and have another reality behind their closed doors, which is why friends and family are often so shocked when it becomes public that they are splitting up.

Congrats on doing so well. I cannot really understand the thesis about "loving someone so much...". For most of human history there really was no concept of romantic love.

I think a couple needs empathic understanding, cooperation on big things, especially children, sexual desire for one another, but "love" seems like the least solid thing on which to base a serious long term project like marriage.

I love the feeling of love, but I should never have done and will never again mortgage my life to something so evanescent. Remember, love is often described as temporary insanity.

Can we count on the two partners staying insane for life?

Ha

 

[athena53]

I got divorced after 20 years of marriage. It was hell (the divorce, not the marriage). I was the one who initiated the split-up. I was 42 at the time. <snip> It was hell to go through, but I'm so glad I didn't live a lie for another 20 years.

I was divorced at 43 after 13 years of marriage, with a 12-year old son. Smartest thing I ever did. I shudder to think what shape DS would have been in if we'd lived in that war zone any longer.

I feel sorry for people who stay together till the kids are out of the house because they think they're doing the kids a favor. In most cases, they're not.

 

[Nemo2]

I feel sorry for people who stay together till the kids are out of the house because they think they're doing the kids a favor. In most cases, they're not.

In DW's case there were no 'fights'; she made a point of never running down their father to the kids, so they thought, (and perhaps still do), that he was great........she simply bided her time until they were autonomous.

 

[HadEnuff]

"we stayed married for the children. She didn't want them, and neither did I"-Rodney Dangerfield.

 

[mickeyd]

Seems like I have read that divorce is one of the biggest reasons that retirement plans end up being blown up.


My advice? Have your affairs and flings in such a manner as to not get caught by the other.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My kids actually thanked me for not divorcing their Dad until they were grown up.

 

[athena53]

My kids actually thanked me for not divorcing their Dad until they were grown up.

Your unhappy marriage must have been more civil than mine. Every case is different! I'm glad your kids agreed with your choice.

 

[friar1610]

"They raised three kids in a stable loving home (the youngest has recently moved out like her older siblings)."

I have seen dozens of divorces as soon as the last child leave the nest. The kids were the only glue holding the thing together

I'm a retired military guy. I've noticed that it's not uncommon for a divorce to take place about the time of military retirement. My sense is that it's normally the guy/military member opting out of the marriage leaving behind the wife who has stuck it out with him for 20 years or more. Sad.

 

[Dash man]

I'm a retired military guy. I've noticed that it's not uncommon for a divorce to take place about the time of military retirement. My sense is that it's normally the guy/military member opting out of the marriage leaving behind the wife who has stuck it out with him for 20 years or more. Sad.

Then half the retirement pay goes to the spouse, plus child support and in some states alimony and child care costs. It's cheaper to find a way to make things work.


Enjoying life!

 

[W2R]

I divorced my ex at age 50, after 23 years of marriage, due to the usual stuff. Not infidelity, I'll give him that, but he was an alcoholic and not working or even doing anything helpful around the house. Meanwhile I was working hard and trying to survive in a "publish or perish" environment at the university. Enough was enough, and something had to give.

Our daughter was in college and she still took it pretty hard even though we never argued in front of her.

This is a sad topic overall.

We had essentially nothing and half of nothing is nothing. That is what I got from the divorce. A sofa (to sleep on), an old k-car with 100,000 miles on it and serious unpredictable electrical problems, my books and clothes. He got the house, but he also got the credit card bills which were about equal to our equity in the house.

Anyway, divorcing him was a turning point, of course. Surprisingly divorce has led to much happiness for both of us, even though he did not want the divorce initially.

I would not be retired if we were still married, because he was spending every dime I put aside. On the other hand, I also learned a tremendous amount about LBYM while married and trying to save money under those conditions. So, I might not be retired if I had not been married, either.

I regret neither my marriage, nor my divorce. Why would I? I made these decisions after much deliberation, and while in full possession of my rational faculties.

 

[frayne]

I'm a retired military guy. I've noticed that it's not uncommon for a divorce to take place about the time of military retirement. My sense is that it's normally the guy/military member opting out of the marriage leaving behind the wife who has stuck it out with him for 20 years or more. Sad.

I know of two gals that are divorced and both were married to WP grads, who retired as Lt. and FB colonels. Both gals seem miserable and somewhat bitter. After following their husbands all over the world and raising the kids, I can understand why. Sad, sad sad.

 

[karen1972]

My parents came close to divorce in their 50s (financial infidelity and some neglect) but stuck it out because they were super religious and my sister was very young, then things got really good between them again and now that my father has hit 80 they fight quit a bit..and my mother mentions divorce more often. They are spending too much time together for sure, my dad doesn't have enough to keep himself busy and is driving my mother nuts...nothing like having someone come into your garden and start throwing out "weeds" that were your entire crop of sweet potatoes. They also fight over money (ie. my father is of the adage I MADE the money so I control the money) and my mother put up with it for decades.. however as they age, that isn't flying any longer as she realizes she may outlive him by 20 years and he talks about giving it away upon his death to charities without regard to her very real need of it.

So divorce is definetly on the table and I waffle if it would be a good thing given my mother really does need to protect herself financially. Given she is 10 years younger than my father, her "1/2" of his SS is substantially smaller as I never knew it didn't account for inflation. So yeh, up to now there was always a kid at home (many returned multiple times) but now that they have all left, there is a lot of "perfect family" moments from the outside but internally, I know my mother may reach her limit one day and talk to an attorney. It happens..

I assume this is true with many grey divorces, you put up with stuff and life gets in the way and you just let it go.. as you get older, empty nest, those things seem bigger issues and your around each other way more time without any buffer and you either deal with them or you snap.. enough is enough.

 

[Pilot2013]

I regret neither my marriage, nor my divorce. Why would I? I made these decisions after much deliberation, and while in full possession of my rational faculties.

I don't regret my 1st marriage either. Without it, neither of my 2 DD's would be here today! I do wish my ex had made better decisions, and would now make better decisions. As for being happier, there is no doubt I am.

I don't know if she is happier or not. In my mind, her being still unmarried, living with numerous guys over the years, having addictions, and her parents and siblings helping her out financially, I don't see how she could be happier. But that's not for me to determine, and we have no relationship. She has minimal relationship with our DD's.

As I look around the world, however, I am not sure that she isn't happy. My sister and I were talking about a month ago that some of our family and others we see in the world seem to go through their lives not even thinking in the least about how they are going to make it financially in retirement years, while we constantly do. Sometimes they seem much happier "in the moment" than we do!

Ignorance is bliss?