"Sandy".

[Sarah in SC]

I've lived my whole life on islands, barrier and sea. We get insurance, we build to the best standards we can, and we enjoy where we live.

I'm fine with a "live and let live" attitude about these kinds of things--I wouldn't live where there were massive snowstorms, tornadoes, or whatever it is that creates weather havoc in other parts of the world.

This is my home, so this is where I live. Not hard to understand for people who have roots.


Oooh, edit to add: missed the bonus of being called "infantile". Thanks Ha. I'll consider that means I'm considerably younger, ie an infant compared to your old phartedness.

 

[GrayHare]

Taking advantage of government-backed insurance that does not accurately reflect the coastline risk is a type of Tragedy of the Commons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

 

[brewer12345]

I've lived my whole life on islands, barrier and sea. We get insurance, we build to the best standards we can, and we enjoy where we live.

I'm fine with a "live and let live" attitude about these kinds of things--I wouldn't live where there were massive snowstorms, tornadoes, or whatever it is that creates weather havoc in other parts of the world.

This is my home, so this is where I live. Not hard to understand for people who have roots.


Oooh, edit to add: missed the bonus of being called "infantile". Thanks Ha. I'll consider that means I'm considerably younger, ie an infant compared to your old phartedness.

I get why individuals do this. My question was more why we as a society do so. Perhaps it is because the benefits outweigh the costs, simple as that. Benefits don't have to be financial - they can easily be hedonic.

I am disaster averse, so I never was willing to live on the water despite the benefits. Other people make other choices.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I get why individuals do this. My question was more why we as a society do so. Perhaps it is because the benefits outweigh the costs, simple as that. Benefits don't have to be financial - they can easily be hedonic.

I am disaster averse, so I never was willing to live on the water despite the benefits. Other people make other choices.

I think that around the world, populations began in coastal areas for the ease of transport and trade. Our coastline was settled by folks from England, Scotland, and Ireland, all traditionally seafaring people. I would suggest that it is in our DNA, collectively, to desire a coastal life. My DH, of Germanic extraction, lived happily in Charlotte for years until led astray by wine, women, and song. He kids me all the time about moving back to red-clay country. I told him he'd be lucky to be buried in it.

Thoughtful point, though. You should think where you live is beautiful and wonderful. I know I do.

 

[brewer12345]

You should think where you live is beautiful and wonderful. I know I do.

Fortunately, I found a beautiful place to live that has very little in the way of potential disasters.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The building codes did change here in San Diego after the big wildfires in 2003 and 2008. We built a granny flat after 2003 and had to have the plans reviewed by the fire marshall since we're close to a canyon. It was already a fire hardened design (because my husband, the architect, is paranoid about fire and earthquake) but the fire marshall tweaked it even more...especially on the roof vents. This is a house that was already stucco, tile roof, metal clad windows, etc. Heck - even the landscaping had to get blessed and they nixed our plan for a row of Italian cypress trees.

I know in the new development east of Rancho Santa Fe all new homes have to have fire suppressant sprinklers, etc... The idea is that they can shelter in place during a wildfire.

Somehow I don't think the buliding codes will help much for homes built where they should never have been built.

By the way, did your fire insurance rates change after the fires?

 

[pb4uski]

I see the attraction of living on the shore (and live on the water myself). Just so long as those who want to live along the coast pay their way and I don't have to subsidize their lifestyle.

 

[Lazarus]

Because if private insurers are too smart to insure this stuff, we benevolent taxpayers, through our government and the magic of deficit financing, will step into the gap.

And because infantile people will not accept any limits on their wills.

Ha

+1

 

[Purron]

This is my home, so this is where I live. Not hard to understand for people who have roots.

I understand.

 

[Texas Proud]

But if your land was covered by water and unusable, wouldn't its fair value then be zero (no one would pay you money for underwater property)? If so, then the owner/trust could grieve their assessment and get relief through a nil (or next to nil) assessed value? I think that is the way it would work around here.

The value was lowered a lot, but not to zero... and the trust tried to give the property away, but could not.... the taxes were low... but the trust had to process the payment and also send someone out to inspect it every three years (IIRC) which cost money....

The 'value' that it has is that if some big storm comes and dumps a LOT of dirt and sand right at that spot... and the water is no longer there... you have usable property.... worth some money...

 

[rodi]

Somehow I don't think the buliding codes will help much for homes built where they should never have been built.

By the way, did your fire insurance rates change after the fires?

Yes - there were big premium jumps after the Cedar fires. Like $200/year IIRC.

My neighborhood is kind of hard to get insurance unless you're an existing customer. So no one can change their home owners insurance easily.
When the neighbor across the street bought he was only able to get his old company (from the house he sold) give him a quote - no one else would even talk to him. We were only able to get a quote from the insurance company my dad had had (we bought my childhood home from dad.) They made an exception because it was continuous coverage with them and family, etc...

Ironically - we're not in the areas hit hardest by the fire - although we were ready to evacuate during the cedars fire since it came within 1 mile of our house before the wind changed. I can't imagine if we lived more inland.

Pretty crazy.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes - there were big premium jumps after the Cedar fires. Like $200/year IIRC.

Even though $200 is a fair amount of money, it still comes nowhere near close enough to paying for the true risk premium on houses in these areas.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Eben though $200 is a fair amount of money, it still comes nowhere near close enough to paying for the true risk premium on houses in these areas.

Hmm, I imagine it is--the insurance companies are pretty good with figuring this risk stuff out.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hmm, I imagine it is--the insurance companies are pretty good with figuring this risk stuff out.

Oh they do, and the insurance companies don't lose any money...

but the politicians make them spread the risk to people way away from the fire zones.

It's weird, the people living in the small cheap houses down the hill and in flat lying areas end up subsidizing insurance for the (often) wealthier people who build big homes up in the hills prone to fire damage.

 

[Nords]

Punching bag for storms as they approach the mainland. Everyone who owns property on the Jersey shore knows that the islands are the cannon fodder for incoming storms and is fooling themselves if they think their property will not at some point get pounded.

Yep.

I have to admit that I'll be disappointed if the TV show "Jersey Shore" manages to survive the effects of Hurricane Sandy.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Yep.

I have to admit that I'll be disappointed if the TV show "Jersey Shore" manages to survive the effects of Hurricane Sandy.

MTV was way ahead of Sandy and cancelled the show in August.

 

[brewer12345]

MTV was way ahead of Sandy and cancelled the show in August.

No doubt they will pull together a quick hurricane Sandy reunion.

 

[Bestwifeever]

No doubt they will pull together a quick hurricane Sandy reunion.

They'll have a fundraiser benefit, no doubt.

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't blame people for living where there's danger of hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, winter storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, brush fires, etc...

After all, not everyone is tough enough to deal with scorpions, rattlesnakes, fire ants, ticks, chiggers, tarantulas, brown recluse spiders, copperheads, cottonmouths, rabid skunks, wild hogs, etc...

And even when you think you have put up a good defense perimeter against these murderous critters, comes one sizzling summer of 120F temperature with the electric grid blacked out from overload, and people will be dropping like flies from the heat.

If it's not one thing, it's 'nother. There is no place to hide, I'll tell ya.

 

[Purron]

If it's not one thing, it's 'nother.

As Gilda said, "It's always something".

 

[bbbamI]

I don't blame people for living where there's danger of hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, winter storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, brush fires, etc...

After all, not everyone is tough enough to deal with scorpions, rattlesnakes, fire ants, ticks, chiggers, tarantulas, brown recluse spiders, copperheads, cottonmouths, rabid skunks, wild hogs, etc...

And even when you think you have put up a good defense perimeter against these murderous critters, comes one sizzling summer of 120F temperature with the electric grid blacked out from overload, and people will be dropping like flies from the heat.

If it's not one thing, it's 'nother. There is no place to hide, I'll tell ya.

Ahhhhh....that's my first guffaw of the day.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, where I am in the SW, in the suburb and about 1 mi. from the desert edge, I have not seen as many critters as reported in TX.

But the 120F summer temperature is real. I can joke about it now, because we are in fall, and the high today is a mere 88F!

 

[Purron]

Well, where I am in the SW, in the suburb and about 1 mi. from the desert edge, I have not seen as many critters as reported in TX.

But the 120F summer temperature is real. I can joke about it now, because we are in fall, and the high today is a mere 88F!

50s here today but felt much colder. Still damp and blustery after the big storm. Winter is in the air. We set the clocks back this weekend and that's when the dark, cold days of winter begin in earnest.

I think I'd like 80s and dry desert warmth. Older I get, harder it is to deal with the cold and damp. Even so, I love this place. It's imperfect, but it's home. Might just have to give it up though when these old bones find it impossible to deal with another winter.

 

[meierlde]

I don't blame people for living where there's danger of hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, winter storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, brush fires, etc...

There is no place to hide, I'll tell ya.

By the time you exclude all the items above there is no place in the US that meets the criteria cited. (Definitely no place in the US and although there may be places in Europe and possibly Brazil (the highlands) since the S Atlantic does not tend to get hurricanes, and its very old rocks inland from Rio. Of course disasters come in two flavors local a regional, a tornado, even like Joplin tends to be local, aid can come from nearby (started with Springfield, then Tulsa, KC and St.Louis) So a lot of what is seen in either Ike or Sandy such as the gas lines does not occur (much of what is happening in Sandy re fuel also happened in Ike in Houston as well due to the power being down at gas stations, this is why the preparedness folks say to fill up before the storm)

 

[haha]

Based on what I see with Fire insurance claims here in SoCal I don't think it will happen.

Here in SoCal people love to live right next to the forest areas prone to firestorms.

When i lived down there it was an annual event to walk along the beach and watch the canyons up behind Malibu burning. As long as these things get subsidized, they will go right on happening. What are home insurance rates up in Topanga canyon, for example?