Search Underway for Titanic Tourist Submarine

[easysurfer]

This doesn't sound good. The curse of the titanic .

Lost at sea with only about 4 days (3 now) of oxygen left.

U.S. and Canadian rescue teams were searching Monday for a submersible used to take groups including tourists to view the wreckage site of the Titanic after the submarine vanished deep in the Atlantic Ocean with four days or less worth of survival capability.

The Coast Guard tweeted that the 21-foot submersible, which left from St. John's, began its dive with five people on board Sunday morning. The Canadian ship monitoring the watercraft lost contact with it about an hour and 45 minutes later

.

Based on the company's information, Mauger said the submersible has a 96-hour emergency capability that includes oxygen and fuel. "So we anticipate that there's somewhere between 70 and the full 96 hours available at this point,'' he said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...submarine-missing-atlantic-ocean/70335411007/

 

[Graybeard]

How fast would this device descend? I know coming up divers need to do it slowly due to the bends but I never heard of descending slowly.

The reason I ask is 1 hour and 45 minutes into the decent seems like they would be very deep if not at the 12k point. From Googling, the pressure is 6 to 6.5k psi. If the submersible had a catastrophic failure, they'd be crushed before they could say ouch. If they lost power I assume they'd sink to the ocean floor only to be in an episode of The Twilight Zone knowing they are surrounded by crushing pressure, total darkness and ice cold water without any hope of rescue. Neither of those scenarios are survivable. If their coms failed why didn't they surface? I read they paid $250k for the trip.

 

[Koolau]

I know little about the submarines involved. But I assume it's possible to send "pings" or other communications to make the sub easily found. "Simple" black boxes in air craft do this for 30 days IIRC.

The fact that no such calls for help have been received from the sub, I suspect that the sub met with a disaster. I hope I'm wrong.

Imagine being the 2225th through 2229th casualties of the Titanic - 111 years later.

 

[Gumby]

How fast would this device descend? I know coming up divers need to do it slowly due to the bends but I never heard of descending slowly.

The reason I ask is 1 hour and 45 minutes into the decent seems like they would be very deep if not at the 12k point. From Googling, the pressure is 6 to 6.5k psi. If the submersible had a catastrophic failure, they'd be crushed before they could say ouch. If they lost power I assume they'd sink to the ocean floor only to be in an episode of The Twilight Zone knowing they are surrounded by crushing pressure, total darkness and ice cold water without any hope of rescue. Neither of those scenarios are survivable. If their coms failed why didn't they surface? I read they paid $250k for the trip.

The reason to descend slowly is to discover problems before they become catastrophic.

 

[Ready]

I’ve been following this story throughout the day. Let’s hope for a miracle rescue.

 

[Sunset]

This is why trip insurance is a good idea

I don't think this will have a happy ending.
Even if they can locate the sub via a transponder, then what ? Nobody can swim down, so at best it's send down a robot to hook on a cable, except they are ~400 miles from shore, and there is probably no submersible robot within 3 days travel to get there.

 

[frayne]

How fast would this device descend? I know coming up divers need to do it slowly due to the bends but I never heard of descending slowly.

Don't know but would think the slow decent reason would be, better to increase the pressure on the hull slowly as opposed to quickly. I remember from my old scuba diving days every 33' of depth is equivalent to another atmosphere. We are talking four to five thousand pounds per square inch of pressure on the vessel at 10-12K ft. of depth. Some speculation is the vessel may have imploded somewhere during the decent. All that said, sure hope they find and rescue these folks but the longer this goes on, the less likely for a successful outcome.

 

[Aerides]

I know little about the submarines involved. But I assume it's possible to send "pings" or other communications to make the sub easily found. "Simple" black boxes in air craft do this for 30 days IIRC.

The fact that no such calls for help have been received from the sub, I suspect that the sub met with a disaster. I hope I'm wrong.

It wasn't equipped with any sort of emergency beacon, you know, the basics... and it got lost before for a few hours, and still no beacon was added? (according to a science writer, David Pogue on twitter).

 

[easysurfer]

Sadly, looking more like when folks go hiking the Grand Canyon with only a bottle of water or folks trying to go over Niagra Falls in a barrel.

 

[Car-Guy]

Don't know but would think the slow decent reason would be, better to increase the pressure on the hull slowly as opposed to quickly. I remember from my old scuba diving days every 33' of depth is equivalent to another atmosphere. We are talking four to five thousand pounds per square inch of pressure on the vessel at 10-12K ft. of depth. Some speculation is the vessel may have imploded somewhere during the decent. All that said, sure hope they find and rescue these folks but the longer this goes on, the less likely for a successful outcome.

At this point that would be my "guess" too. Hope not, but.....

 

[easysurfer]

Just watched interview with CBS reporter who was in the vessel a year ago doing a report. He said even if everyone was unconscious, there is an automated sandbag release that happens after 14 hrs so they would float up. But since not found, another reason to think something catastrophic happened.

 

[Koolau]

It wasn't equipped with any sort of emergency beacon, you know, the basics... and it got lost before for a few hours, and still no beacon was added? (according to a science writer, David Pogue on twitter).

Thanks for the info. That kind of negligence borders on the criminal.

My gut tells me that it was an implosion, but, if not, I'd say they'll never find it in time. Big ocean, small sub. No distress beacon. Just so sad.

When I leave the house, I want my cell phone just in case. Going to 12000 feet in the ocean, I'd want more ways to communicate than just a phone (which wouldn't w*rk anyway.)

I don't understand why they don't take a simple umbilical to the bottom to communicate any problems. Before their actual exploration, they could drop the umbilical and then pick it back up (a bit tricky - maybe a magnetic hook-up.)

 

[Northforker]

Even if it emergency surfaced with no communication ability , it could be miles away from the tending vessel.

 

[easysurfer]

Lots of surprises. Another was about this vessel being a "one of". No duplicate vessel. You'd think there'd be another if not to send to look for the first or just for testing purposes.

 

[ls99]

Seems the operators waited eight hours to notify coast guard of loss of comms. OTOH if it imploded it would not matter.
Even if they asked within an hour US Navy for DSRV assist, it would take long time to set up rescue effort. Though the Canadians may have one closer. Not known if it has a hatch compatible with DSRV. Form last year's reporter's comment it was a bit of a jury rig. Likely in a week or two the facts will emerge.

 

[frayne]

Seems the operators waited eight hours to notify coast guard of loss of comms. OTOH if it imploded it would not matter.
Even if they asked within an hour US Navy for DSRV assist, it would take long time to set up rescue effort. From last year's reporter's comment it was a bit of a jury rig. Likely in a week or two the facts will emerge.

I saw the same segment and they showed something like a playstation game controller to operate the vessel and scrap pipe being used for ballast but the design seemed pretty high tech, using titanium and carbon fiber construction. Read on another site where the vessel was built for a max of 13K ft. and the depth they were going to was ~12K ft., not much room for error. Wonder too about how many dive cycles (think pressure compression/release) the vessel had gone through. Another thought is even though they may have had a 96 hr. emergency supply of air, what about food, water, human waste management. Again, think about being cramped in a cold mini van for three days with four other individuals, thinking the worst may be coming. Not a good situation.

 

[Trooper]

I remember from my old scuba diving days every 33' of depth is equivalent to another atmosphere.

You remember well. 33', or 10m.

 

[Koolau]

I saw the same segment and they showed something like a playstation game controller to operate the vessel and scrap pipe being used for ballast but the design seemed pretty high tech, using titanium and carbon fiber construction. Read on another site where the vessel was built for a max of 13K ft. and the depth they were going to was ~12K ft., not much room for error. Wonder too about how many dive cycles (think pressure compression/release) the vessel had gone through. Another thought is even though they may have had a 96 hr. emergency supply of air, what about food, water, human waste management. Again, think about being cramped in a cold mini van for three days with four other individuals, thinking the worst may be coming. Not a good situation.

I've often thought about those ancillary issues beside oxygen. In reality, no one ever died from dealing with human waste for 96 hours. Gross? Yes, life threatening, no. Same for food. Hungry? Yes. (barring certain medical issues) not life threatening. Water? That's tricky. In a cool, non-physically active situation, most people would survive that long with out water. My guess is they have a bit of water with them and that could stretch the "usual" 3-day survival without water. And, dare I say it, people have survived short term while ameliorating the "waste" situation.

Things to think about when you're attempting scary missions like this. Count me out.

 

[Sojourner]

Some speculation is the vessel may have imploded somewhere during the decent.

I think this is almost certainly what must have happened, given all the facts and circumstances. How could the vessel have suddenly and permanently lost all communication with the surface, with no indications of any problems, unless it was an instantaneous hull failure/implosion? Seems like any other problem would have unfolded slowly enough to send a distress signal up to the surface.

At this point that would be my "guess" too. Hope not, but.....

At those extreme depths, pressures, and temperatures, an implosion would be a FAR better outcome for the passengers than, say, sinking to the bottom and slowly freezing and/or running out of air. Tragic, at any rate.

 

[pacergal]

So frightening and sad.
I pray for their souls and hope they are found, but it doesn't look good.

 

[ls99]

Looking at photos of the tourist sub, don't see what propulsors it uses. A look at DSRV's shows large propellers. Need good sized props for maneuvering, especially past history of strong currents around the Titanic.

 

[Sunset]

There is a "toilet" at the front, right in front of the porthole, when you use it they pull a curtain across for privacy. And turn the music up loud to give noise privacy.

Pretty crude in normal circumstances. They normally advise to eat lightly before the dive.

 

[gromit]

The link is to an article with a 7 minute video of a CBS Mornings interview with David Pogue. He rode in this submersible about a year ago and knows quite a bit about it.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-h...ort-david-pogue-oceangate-possible-scenarios/

 

[athena53]

And here's a link to a FastCompany article interviewing Stockton Rush, the founder of OceanGate, in 2017. It was just posted on LinkedIn. A smart, ambitious man with a plan, but not without its risks.

https://www.fastcompany.com/40406673/the-man-who-wants-to-send-us-to-the-bottom-of-the-ocean

 

[Ian S]

As a materials engineer with (ancient) experience in carbon fibers and their composite structures, I was intrigued if somewhat skeptical of this submersible design. Typically, carbon fiber composites are used for their tensile strength (for a given weight) rather than their compressive strength which is critical for submersibles. This article https://www.compositesworld.com/new...-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive gives some info on the design which also incorporates titanium. The vessel appears unique and incorporates some "firsts" e.g. "the largest known submersible carbon fiber and titanium pressure vessel." It sounds to me like the titanium is used for "endcaps" that attach to the filament wound carbon fiber cylinder. Then there are the titanium interface rings that join the titanium endcaps to the carbon fiber composite central cylinder. I recall that interfaces between such dissimilar materials were always tricky to design but I admit the technology has probably advanced a lot since I was involved decades ago.

Sadly, I'm inclined to believe that the vessel has been lost. In any event, I hope that whatever happened can be successfully analyzed to establish exactly what happened and give guidance on how to avoid such problems in the future.