Should I treat myself to a Chevy Volt?

[73ss454]

If it's a mandatory buy back, then it's big trouble. If it's voluntary, the car has a chance.

 

[ls99]

Did a quick search. At the moment it looks like voluntary. "...buy back many Volts sold so far....."

GM Plans to Accommodate Concerned Chevy Volt Owners, Not Launching Official Buyback Program - Rumor Central

According to GM they sold 6468 cars since 2010, They did not say how many of those were then re-sold to RETAIL customers.

 

[eridanus]

Read an article a day or so ago, GM is buying back the Chevy volt. Seems they have some self immolating feature. Prior to that they were offering a gasoline powered car as loaner while attempting to fix the source of fire some testing discovered.

My guess: the the Volt is now toast.

Eh, a grand total of 30 out of ~6000 have taken the loaner car option. The press is bad but Volt owners have an extremely high satisfaction rate. It may be bad enough to discourage 2nd gen buyers of course but this "recall" is many times less worrying than, for example, the Toyota brake problems.

Chevy Volt tops owner satisfaction survey - Dec. 1, 2011

 

[ls99]

Yup sounds real good. The article also has said:

But the magazine warned that, at the time the survey was done, the Volt was on sale in only a few states and had been purchased by just a few thousand people. The car first hit showrooms in December, 2010.
"t remains to be seen if the score will hold up as the car rolls out to a wider audience and owners spend more time with their vehicles," Consumer Reports said in its announcement.

 

[ls99]

Reading some of the article:

And there's another caveat to the ranking: The survey was conducted before the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced it's opened an investigation into possible post-crash fires in the Volt's lithium-ion battery packs. The investigation was prompted by a fire in a Chevrolet Volt that ignited weeks after a crash test.

 

[eridanus]

Reading some of the article:

And there's another caveat to the ranking: The survey was conducted before the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced it's opened an investigation into possible post-crash fires in the Volt's lithium-ion battery packs. The investigation was prompted by a fire in a Chevrolet Volt that ignited weeks after a crash test.

True but, again, you're talking about early adopters. They're going to be less critical of any problems. There's no doubt that the 2nd gen customers will be wary of buying a potential fire hazard.

Chevy Volt: Worried about fire? Sell it back. - CSMonitor.com

"It's an offer you can make when you don't expect many people to take you up on it," O'Dell said. "Most of these cars have been sold to the early-adopter customers.


"They are the least likely people to complain about the car because they want this kind of technology; they've been waiting for it."

 

[ERD50]

I think this is a strange bit of PR on GM's part.

On the plus side, they are being pro-active and reaching out to customers to gain good will. That part is probably smart.

On the really negative side - the way I heard this reported, it makes it sound as if GM is admitting there might be a potential (no pun intended) problem with all the Volts. But the fires only happened in cars after they were crash tested.

I think GM should have said they will do a full replacement of the battery pack if you get in a serious accident, for the life of the car, or until they discover/fix any underlying problems.

I checked the inventory I've been tracking, and only a couple of the 16 or so stock #'s I've tracked have moved in over a month. At least the Tesla is competitive with the ICE cars in its price range - $30K is a lot to spend for the Volt compared to its ICE counterparts. There are only so many greenies that just gotta have one that can spend that much cash.


-ERD50

 

[Zathras]

As an EV driver, I am far less concerned of a battery fire in an accident (or 1-3 weeks after an accident) than I am a gasoline fire at the time of an accident.
That being said, since the Volt has both, it is no safer than any other gas burner in an accident due to being partially electric.
The offer to buy back cars if an owner is fearful of the battery fires is to be applauded.
If shoddy design or construction turns out to be the issue, then I will be at the head of the line demanding an answer, and possibly my money back.
But I won't let centationalized media stories spoon feed me 'facts' I base decisions on.

Anyone read the story about the Oct 30th garage fire which contained a volt? The follow up is that the inspectors have now stated that the fire did not originate from the Volt, not the Volt's charger.
Chevy Volt charging not likely a cause of NC garage fire

Official report will probably be out in January, I look forward to it.

 

[travelover]

If most cars were electric and someone proposed a car carrying 20 gallons of highly explosive liquid, the press would be all over this as an insane idea.

I say no big deal - similar to unjustified worry over early hybrid battery dangers when involved in accidents.

Yawn.

Now what are the Kardashians up to, that's what I wanna know.

 

[Free To Canoe]

Treat yourself. I'll bring the mashmellows.

 

[ERD50]

If most cars were electric and someone proposed a car carrying 20 gallons of highly explosive liquid, the press would be all over this as an insane idea.

I say no big deal - similar to unjustified worry over early hybrid battery dangers when involved in accidents.

Yawn. ...

I only partially agree. We have learned how to deal with 20 gallons of gas over the years. This is new technology, and there are often new things to worry about.

An ICE car is unlikely to go up in flames weeks after a crash. If there was a gas leak, you would likely see and/or smell it.

These batteries have thousands of connections and heating and cooling systems in them. There may be more ways for things to go wrong, and they may be less obvious. I don't think this should be blown out of proportion, but I do think it deserves some serious concern.

It won't be the death of the EV. That will happen regardless, since they only shift pollution elsewhere, and cost and range are unlikely to keep up with alternatives.

-ERD50

 

[Zathras]

In 2005 there were 266,000 car fires. Or, about 1 in 1000 cars.
There have been accidents involving EVs, but no EV fires that I have heard of (although if Free To Canoe's image has a story linked to it...), other than during safety tests.
As for pollution, on the west coast, there is much less pollution from the grid, than the oil. And the grid is, overall, getting cleaner and cleaner, while gasoline sources are getting dirtier. I suspect EVs will be here for good this time.
Not. Everyone will be driving them, but many will.

 

[Free To Canoe]

Treat yourself. I'll bring the mashmellows.

This was an attempt at humor. I couldn't find a really good pic of a Pinto with an exploding gas tank so this one would have to do.
Do you really think electric cars are dangerous? I don't.

 

[73ss454]

This was an attempt at humor. I couldn't find a really good pic of a Pinto with an exploding gas tank so this one would have to do.
Do you really think electric cars are dangerous? I don't.

When I was working in a car dealership one of the things the shop had to have was a certain length wooden pole available when working on these cars. This is to remove someone who is working on the vehicle without electrocuting the other person. I think this is a hint that they could be dangerous, no?

 

[travelover]

When I was working in a car dealership one of the things the shop had to have was a certain length wooden pole available when working on these cars. This is to remove someone who is working on the vehicle without electrocuting the other person. I think this is a hint that they could be dangerous, no?

You may be surprised to find that (gasp), you have 220 volts right in your own home.

 

[73ss454]

You may be surprised to find that (gasp), you have 220 volts right in your own home.

No doubt, but no one ever instructed me to have a wooden pole at all of the outlets.

 

[ziggy29]

I heard they were giving out loaners till the problem is resolved. If GM is now buying them back, well, say goodbye!

Too bad they couldn't give out the old EV-1s they forcibly took back as loaners...

 

[travelover]

No doubt, but no one ever instructed me to have a wooden pole at all of the outlets.

OK, I'm instructing you now.

 

[Chuckanut]

Get a Tesla two seater electric sports car.

About Tesla | Tesla Motors

 

[M Paquette]

No doubt, but no one ever instructed me to have a wooden pole at all of the outlets.

Obviously not Navy-trained. You probably don't even have a CPR trained person wearing high voltage rated gloves standing by while plugging in the Christmas lights (in a roped off area, of course).

 

[samclem]

And, IIRC, DC "juice" is a bit more incapacitating than the same voltage of AC. Something about cycling and the response of human neurons/musculature. None of it is fun.

 

[travelover]

And, IIRC, DC "juice" is a bit more incapacitating than the same voltage of AC. Something about cycling and the response of human neurons/musculature. None of it is fun.

There is a fuzzy video of the elephant getting zapped. Not pretty

Edison's publicity campaign

Edison carried out a campaign to discourage the use[16] of alternating current, including spreading disinformation on fatal AC accidents, publicly killing animals, and lobbying against the use of AC in state legislatures. Edison directed his technicians, primarily Arthur Kennelly and Harold P. Brown,[17] to preside over several AC-driven killings of animals, primarily stray cats and dogs but also unwanted cattle and horses.[improper synthesis?] Acting on these directives, they were to demonstrate to the press that alternating current was more dangerous than Edison's system of direct current.[18] He also tried to popularize the term for being electrocuted as being "Westinghoused". Years after DC had lost the "war of the currents," in 1902, his film crew made a movie of the electrocution with high voltage AC, supervised by Edison employees, of Topsy, a Coney Island circus elephant which had recently killed three men.[19]
Edison opposed capital punishment, but his desire to disparage the system of alternating current led to the invention of the electric chair. Harold P. Brown, who was being secretly paid by Edison, built the first electric chair for the state of New York to promote the idea that alternating current was deadlier than DC.[20]

War of Currents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TromboneAl]

I think this is a strange bit of PR on GM's part.

Yes, this strikes me as weird.

I think there's a new technique with politicians and corporations. It goes like this: Even if you think the perceived problem doesn't exist, say you're very sorry right away and offer amends (or go to rehab) so that the public doesn't think you are trying to avoid the issue.

It's as if someone at GM wanted to avoid the publicity that came with the accelerating Priuses (which, BTW, you don't hear about anymore).

But if so, buying the cars back seems to go too far.

 

[ratto]

Based on this reference, http://www.towserver.net/PDF/VoltQuickRef3.pdf, the Volt battery package voltage is 360V. For Gen V Toyota Prius, its battery pack voltage is 201V; and for Honda Civic hybrid, its figure is 144V.

Even the regular 12V battery presents a hazard for EMS after all the metals and wires got tangled together caused by crash, because a lot of energy could still be released by short circuit. That's why EMS personnels always cut a portion of battery cable off at first if they can as precaution. IMO, 360V battery may pack enough punch for motor acceleration, but its voltage is way too high.

Another thought on the basic Ohms law: I^2 * R. Regardless what claims made by manufactures, the electrical power must be coming from somewhere. For the pure electrical plug-in type car, not sure how long its glory will hold, especially considering everyone is going to drive one and charge the batteries from the regular household power outlets at the same time.

 

[Telly]

........ IMO, 360V battery may pack enough punch for motor acceleration, but its voltage is way too high.......

di/dt. The only way to overcome inductance is higher voltage. Used all over for electromechanical systems. The old line printers, remember them? They packed a punch to fire the print solenoids. In my consultant days, among other things, designed stuff using PWM running a 3.6v stepper motor on 50v, for example.

That's why EMS personnels always cut a portion of battery cable off at first if they can as precaution.

Our FD has sent everyone through a hybrid/electric vehicle training course. They say dealing with smashed hybrids has been no big deal for them. What IS the big deal for them, is the multiplicity of airbags all over cars and trucks lately. In seats, in door panels, in headliners, besides the usual dashboard and steering wheel. They told me that airbags were their #1 safety concern on extractions.

Cutting the battery cable will, after a moment, usually disable the airbags from firing. Unless one gets powered via some other method. Hoods can be hard to open when they are well-crunched, and even a smashed battery with all its acid running out can still power airbags.