Sister dying, just turned 65, has not applied for SS - should she?

[stephenson]

I have another thread started, but this is a different sort of question that someone may know the answer to, or have some background on.

My never married, no children, only sibling sister is dying of pancreatic cancer - stage 4, no real hope for much more time, but we are day to day.

She is retired Federal Civil Service.

She turned 65 in October, prior to knowing the cancer had metastasized and become inoperable. She is declining, but trying very hard - and, in a bit of denial which is not uncommon.

Is there any reason to enroll for social security benefits at this point? It might mean a couple of months of payments ... but this amount is pretty minor compared to the pain of pushing her to do it.

Thank you.

 

[aja8888]

Social Security provides a $250 death benefit to a spouse, but seeing she is not married, that would not apply.

 

[Walt34]

It's not that hard if she can do it online, but if they start to require more documentation it probably wouldn't be worth the effort for her. When I filed for SS it was an easy online fill-out-the-forms thing. Not so much as a phone call needed.

A whole different story for my wife.

 

[Chuckanut]

I am sorry to hear about your sister. I lost a sibling to that disease over a decade ago. It was truly the worst thing that has happened to me in my life.

I don't know of anything she would gain from SS. There is a small death benefit, IIRC, but it is not very much. I suppose you or she could take whatever money she gets and contribute it to research into pancreatic cancer. I am truly sorry she and you have to go through this.

 

[youbet]

She is retired Federal Civil Service.

.

Will she be impacted by WEP? If so, the payout amount might be very low making even minor aggravations of getting it started not worthwhile.

Tough situation. Best to you both.

 

[Sunset]

Do it, and have them do the auto back date to her birthday (age 65).

Since you have POA, you can do it for her online.

I haven't applied myself, but I don't think it can be that hard, applying for medicare (she has that ?) was pretty easy.

 

[stephenson]

Sunset,

I had not considered that, but, as I noted, she is in denial. I asked, again, today and she noted she would receive more if she waited til she was 66 1/2.

Will try, again, tomorrow.

 

[ivinsfan]

You have already asked her twice just let her be. Don't keep talking about it

 

[HawkOwl]

Does she have a significant TSP? I am in no way qualified to advise on this topic, but please consult with an attorney/tax advisor concerning the time limits on rolling the tsp over into an inherited IRA. It is my inexpert understanding that taxes are due within 10 years, or 90 days if you do not take action. Obviously this creates a significant tax hit if a large tsp inheritance is taxable in a single year.

https://www.tsp.gov/publications/tspbk31.pdf

 

[ImThinkin2019]

stephenson, condolences. Lost my youngest brother to pancreatic cancer 3 years ago.

He went thru about 6 months of chemo and finally his doctor told him there was nothing to be done. So went on hospice, had all tubes removed, and spent his last few months at home. He communicated his last wishes to us, and designed his memorial service. Both these things were of great comfort to him.

His last day came as a surprise. We visited him on the weekend and he seemed surprisingly better. Then in the middle of the night Monday or Tuesday (don't remember now) he sharply declined and unfortunately passed in great discomfort with his girlfriend at his side.

Please make sure your sister gets enough medication that she is comfortable right to the end. And if you can get 24/7 hospice nurses toward the end, that could help.

My thoughts are with you on this.

 

[stephenson]

Thank you All for your comments and thoughts.

Yes - I will let the SS topic drop as it is apparently irrelevant - if this assessment changes I am prepared to act on her behalf.

I have been working to assess her assets, pay her bills, ensure continuity of maintenance on her house, etc.

She has a modest TSP account with beneficiaries noted (10 year period), and a modest Roth IRA with beneficiaries noted.

ImThinking2019 - in spite of the cancer, the many months of folfirinox chemo and then five weeks of chemo enhanced radiation, with repeat visits to Mayo Rochester, she is still in no pain from the cancer's spread. She is feeble and in a care facility at this point, but hospice is likely the next phase - just not sure when she will decide it is time. Day by day right now. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[street]

Sad thing for sure. I think you made the right decision on SS.

 

[Dreamer]

So sad to hear about your sister. Too young. I wish your family and her peace.

 

[VanWinkle]

My condolences for your sister's plight. I had a sister, brother, and wife pass from cancer in the same year 2019. Getting as much in place while she is still living will help relieve the stress for you as the POA and hopefully put her mind at ease over financial matters. Having optimism is not a bad thing as some studies show it actually extends the life of terminal patients.

Best to you,

VW

 

[Franklin]

Do it, and have them do the auto back date to her birthday (age 65).

Since you have POA, you can do it for her online.

I haven't applied myself, but I don't think it can be that hard, applying for medicare (she has that ?) was pretty easy.

I did this for my brother who was single with no kids and unable to apply due to a stroke. I actually went into the SS office and got face to face with the staff and had all my paperwork and POA. They were super helpful and actually said " we will take care of this after work today". I got a call that evening that all was handled. He got his first check and was grateful and excited. Unfortunately a few weeks later he died. His first check cleared but the next flagged and taken from his account (somehow they knew he just passed). From my perspective it was worth the effort as it made him happy to know he had financial coverage.

 

[kgtest]

You have already asked her twice just let her be. Don't keep talking about it

This is how we had to approach my sister's affairs towards the end of her life.

We did get her to setup POA and declare a will upon initial diagnosis.

But once the Stave IV Colon Cancer took over, all she cared about was spending time with her children. She was diagnosed at 44 and passed away at 47. She battled furiously flying across the country to NIH for trials and such. Cancer sucks. Sorry to hear about your sister's diagnosis.

 

[pacergal]

So sorry to read of your sisters declining health and cancer.
It doesn't sound as if she needs the SS income right now. Perhaps her wanting to wait until 66.5 to receive more is her way of looking at hope for her future.

 

[skyking1]

Stephenson, my condolences on your ongoing situation with your sister. I can understand your motivation, there is little that we can do at a time like this. I belong to the same crappy club and do understand that too well.

 

[stephenson]

Well, during a particularly lucid moment 10 or so days ago she asked about social security - it seemed like she was sort of thinking it humorous she had not applied.

We talked it over a bit and she said to bring laptop over so I provided the fingers for completing the process.

On Friday she received letter from SSA with a provided name and phone number to call to discuss "Windfall Elimination Provision rules."

My quick read from the SSA website is that this does not apply to her - she is retired Federal Civil Service, and has never, to my knowledge, worked for state or local government. Is this correct?

"BACKGROUND: The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) is a formula used to adjust Social Security worker benefits for people who receive “non-covered pensions” and qualify for Social Security benefits based on other Social Security–covered earnings.  A non-covered pension is a pension paid by an employer that does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, typically, state and local governments or non-U.S. employers."

Anyone have an idea what this could mean? Maybe we just filled out form incorrectly?

 

[Sunset]

When she was working for the employer giving her a pension did she have SS deducted (this will be on the SS earnings record for each year on their website for her)

If she has SS earnings showing for each year while working , then WEP won't really apply, or if she had 30 years worth of "substantial" SS earning withheld, it won't affect her.

 

[stephenson]

Sunset - good lead ... thanks.

I know she worked Federal Civil Service her adult working life - retired in 2017 after 37 years.

BUT, when I go to her earnings table, it shows SS taxes being paid in 1980-1983, but none paid in 1984-1997 (however, Medicare taxes were paid), and then restart of social security taxes paid in 1998 until partway through 2017.

I am still in unknown-unknown area now ... she doesn't recall why.

 

[powerplay]

It depends what retirement system she was under. Employees under the CSRS did not pay into SS, but did pay into medicare. Employees under the FERS did pay into SS as well as medicare. It looks like she may have had some federal service under each of the retirement systems.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Based on my personal experience which was with different local government employment - one not participating in Social Security and the other two that did:
Social security wanted to talk to me about the amount of retirement I was going to receive under the agency that did not participate. I included it with my application but then they requested a call and she just wanted to confirm the amount of my pension from that specific agency.
WEP has a rule about not reducing your benefits depending on how much your pension will be. I can’t remember the specifics because I was well over the amount and knew I would be 100% affected by WEP.

 

[stephenson]

OK, I think mystery solv-ed! I really appreciate all the thoughtful, experienced folks that communicate so well on this site!!

She now recalls CSRS and FERS transition - supposedly they aligned total retirement numbers including social security at one point - so, she switched to FERS.

Here's the OPM on it - https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/csrs-information/

And, the wiki on it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Employees_Retirement_System

 

[jazz4cash]

Sorry to hear about your sister. I read the other thread. You are a good sibling. It’s an interesting situation. I was going to ask if she was CSRS or FERS, or maybe started under CSRS, left Federal service, and returned under FERS. I don’t know anyone that switched voluntarily since CSRS is widely considered to be superior. I don’t agree with that opinion. It can be a volatile topic. I think the transition was ~1983. Best wishes on getting this resolved without too much hassle.