Stepbrother Doesn't Work - Consequences/Prognosis (?)

[pc95]

My stepbrother is a year old than I at 45. I've been lucky to work stably since 25 yro (19 year now). But he has not worked since the early-to-mid 2000s. A note, we were friends in grade school before stepbrothers. His last steady employment was maybe in 2003 or 2004. Around 2008 he started receiving county welfare by which I believe his rent is subsidized down to him only owing $100/month on a 1 bed/1ba apartment. Over the years I've tried to first encourage him to go back to school on probably a dozen occasions and then more recently get a job to at least pay into social security to which I get replies like, "yeah that might be good", or "yeah we'll see". I believe he *might* currently have enough for minimum credit (40 quarters) of social security, but then even at that, not enough to live on. The problem is I believe his subsidy becomes cut if he starts working - as he'd likely have to report it. This is a large disincentive for him to go back to work. Let's say the rent subsidy is worth $1500/month in rent currently and he started a $15/hr job - giving back $2000/month. He would be spending 160 hrs per month for net difference of $500 per month. I think He helps out a gal-friend these days as a side gig to bridge the gap. I wonder what may become of his future if he doesn't get on the work-horse? He has limited health insurance with clinic access I think. My step-dad has created a disability-trust for him. He also owns 1/4 of a family property through my step-dad. I dont really want to have to take care of him later in life. He has a sister and mother who live far away and I believe he only has occasional contact. His sister is fairly successful especially compared to his situation. Any idea how he breaks the inertia? Its been so long, my guess there's little potential energy there to tap. I'm amazed at his computer savvy, and lately I've dropped that as ideas......anyway I'm afraid the financial situation will not change except for whatever inheritances he gets. He has not worked in 15+ years.

 

[Calico]

1. He will not change.
2. #1 is not your problem in any way, shape or form.

 

[Koolau]

I've often thought that the way we assist folks is kinda crazy. Not sure why we don't have more of a sliding scale - IOW there's no incentive to work if at some dollar figure of income you actually have to live on less money.

BUT to the immediate issue: You have no responsibility, you have no ability to change him (or probably influence him) so don't worry about it. As Calico so accurately stated it: It's not your problem. YMMV

 

[marko]

One of life's fallacies is to assume that everyone wants the same thing out of life.

We think that having a clean house, warm bed, the bills paid and a car that starts in the morning is what everyone wants. Most of us do, but there's a whole population out there (yes, I'm related to a few of them) for whom these things are just not that important. They'll take whatever they can get of the above as long as they don't have to break a sweat, wake up too early or tear themselves from their precious HBO. "Too much like work" is their favorite expression.

Plus our social infrastructures have made it somewhat easy to allow them to live the life they'd like. Food, shelter, clothing and health subsidies equal about $30-40K in some states; throw in a small underground/barter economy for the extras and 'life is good'. "Yes, I don't have what you have but I can sleep till noon and you can't".

They muddle through each financial challenge, sometimes with great cleverness and agility, and somehow make it through their 60 or 70 years until their "3-pack-a-day and Jack" habit accelerates them to a permanent nap.

It's a warped FIRE in a way but it works for them.

 

[gauss]

I think He helps out a gal-friend these days as a side gig to bridge the gap

My disabled MIL had a live in male friend for over 10 years. She had a corporate pension plus disability SS. He didn't work too much in his career and was probably similar to your step-brother.

When MIL finally had to have him move out, he found another needy lady that he was able to assist. I think he has subsidized section 8 housing as you described for your brother also.

I suspect that your brother has enough social skills to get by in this fashion. It may not be what you or I would want, but we all have different motivations. Two people can definitely get by more effectively than one -- assuming no gross "behavior problems".

Agreed with others that you have boundaries in place so that if things change in the future this does not become your problem.

-gauss

 

[Aerides]

1. He will not change.
2. #1 is not your problem in any way, shape or form.

Exactly this. And whatever he is doing has worked for him for 15 years, so the inertia will keep him in #1 for hopefully another 30 or so.

 

[athena53]

I've often thought that the way we assist folks is kinda crazy. Not sure why we don't have more of a sliding scale - IOW there's no incentive to work if at some dollar figure of income you actually have to live on less money.

Yes- this is a huge problem with many of our needs-based programs. If your income goes up, especially due to employment, you can lose benefits worth more than your increased income. It should NOT be that way.

And, in a way, it DOES become our problem when people coast through life living off public funds. We're the ones who pay for it.

 

[aaronc879]

I will add the same comment others have mentioned just to make sure the OP understands it. You are in no way responsible for his care when he gets older. Not in any way. Don't worry about what he does or doesn't do. You have no financial responsibility to him at all, ever.

 

[MarieIG]

He will continue to not work and will continue to receive government benefits.

Through my job (in the NYC area) I have seen people who have never paid anything into the system (in other words did not pay taxes even when healthy and able to do so), receive benefits to cover their food, housing, clothing, dental, medical, etc. - as well as receiving home aides (for elders) to help with cooking, cleaning, shopping, escorting the person out.

Now, their housing may not be where you might choose to live, but it is certainly a roof over their heads. Although he may not qualify for the standard Social Security benefits, he will most like be covered otherwise. Just speak to you Step Father to make sure the trust is a "Special Needs Trust" set up so that it will not interfere with his benefits.

You can continue to have a relationship with him, without having to support him.

 

[John Galt III]

Makes me wonder if part of the "can't find anybody to work all these open jobs" problem is that a lot of people discovered programs like your step brother's county program while they were home collecting taxpayer money all these months.

 

[misanman]

We have friends whose two sons are like this. Both of them are in their 40's. One has really never worked in any regular way. The other one had a union job at a major university but "didn't like it" and hasn't worked for several years. The parents are trying to get both of them on disability so my view is that they are contributing to the problem.

 

[ivinsfan]

1. He will not change.
2. #1 is not your problem in any way, shape or form.

Repeat this to yourself every morning when you get up and every night before you go to bed.

 

[MRG]

I've seen this movie. I have a family member that isn't far from your description and it have seen many people who lived this way.

I remember the temp help we had in the sawmill, many were ill and took work when they could. Alcohol and drug addiction were common and often replaced medication. I remember one guy who showed up while still blacked out. He asked one of his fellow homeless guys where he was? "You are at the sawmill, you're here to work:. "Oh hell no" he yelled as he ran away.

It's sad that many social programs are disincentive to get back to contributing. OP this isn't your problem to solve, you can't. I have the same issues with my family member but I can't fund her lack of care for her future. DW and I saved our money to enjoy our retirement, not support the family who blew their paychecks on crap they couldn't afford.

 

[pc95]

One of life's fallacies is to assume that everyone wants the same thing out of life.

We think that having a clean house, warm bed, the bills paid and a car that starts in the morning is what everyone wants. Most of us do, but there's a whole population out there (yes, I'm related to a few of them) for whom these things are just not that important. They'll take whatever they can get of the above as long as they don't have to break a sweat, wake up too early or tear themselves from their precious HBO. "Too much like work" is their favorite expression.

Plus our social infrastructures have made it somewhat easy to allow them to live the life they'd like. Food, shelter, clothing and health subsidies equal about $30-40K in some states; throw in a small underground/barter economy for the extras and 'life is good'. "Yes, I don't have what you have but I can sleep till noon and you can't".

They muddle through each financial challenge, sometimes with great cleverness and agility, and somehow make it through their 60 or 70 years until their "3-pack-a-day and Jack" habit accelerates them to a permanent nap.

It's a warped FIRE in a way but it works for them.

Yes, its true what you may want, may not be what others want. I understand we are adults and must be responsible for ourselves. My step-dad has said in the past generally my step-brother has a confidence problem.

Stepbrother and I worked together in High School at the same restaurant and into Junior College for me. The story goes my earlier family (before my mom remarriage) went out to eat one day at diner-restaurant, and my mother said something like, "this looks like a nice place to work" to me which I agreed, and before I knew it had called the manager over for an application to which he agreed in an act of spontaneity which cast a track of my future. Working at the restaurant was incredibly formative for me from 16-20. I worked weekends on top of school and enjoyed it mostly. I firmly believe working while in High-School. My step-brother worked in the same place, but was not going to school in tandem with it later. In a way I'm not surprised, as he didn't engage school well either in public school.

A hard-working co-worker at my office tells me he was a horrible student in high-school, and had to go through self-realization to engage - I don't know how to impart that. I guess you have be willing to engage, and give yourself a break sometimes.

Anyway my wife, closest friend, and brother have said the same things to me about not being responsible, however something doesn't sit well about it to me. From time-to-time something gnaws at me in my psyche - part guilt, part empathy. Its as if, where is the time going generally?

Thanks for comments.

 

[jollystomper]

1. He will not change.
2. #1 is not your problem in any way, shape or form.

I would amend these slightly.

1. The only reason he *might* change is it he hits a huge crisis. But even with that, the odds are slim.
2. It is not your problem, but since you seem to care for him, you have to decide to what level of support you are willing to provide if he does hit a financial crisis. My view is whatever you choose (or not choose to do) is fine; just ensure that it does not impact your own financial standing, plans and requirements.

DW and I have experienced this with several relatives/close friends, and we are glad we thought and planned for #2 before the situation happened.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Is he disabled, if so, in what way?

 

[ivinsfan]

Why on earth you would you be feeling guilty about anything? Figure that one out and it will be easier for you to not feel any responsibility.


I don't believe you have the rent subsidy figured correctly, I don't think it's a one for deduction at that level of income.

 

[HawkOwl]

I would amend these slightly.

2. It is not your problem, but since you seem to care for him, you have to decide to what level of support you are willing to provide if he does hit a financial crisis. My view is whatever you choose (or not choose to do) is fine; just ensure that it does not impact your own financial standing, plans and requirements.

Few people are so financially prosperous that supporting a nair do well step-relative DOESN’T impact their financial standing, plans, and requirements.

 

[yhoomajor]

imho: Work is over-rated!

Let me re-phrase it: Structured work and structured life is overrated. For a single person, in grand schema of things, quality of life is not hugely different if someone one is making $10K per year vs $30k per year. Mostly due to social safety nets that are tied to someone's income. At this level, smart thing is to make others work for you so that they can pay for your benefits

 

[Sunset]

OP - Have the same situation with a relative, ~25 yrs no work, just live at home.

Seems your stepbrother is smarter and has his own place. Live is good.
He is already EARLY RETIRED.

He will live fine off the gov't $$$ plus his father's inheritance, actually his living standard will go UP.

As many have said:
You are NOT responsible for him, you've already pointed out what he needs for SS (maybe he qualifies already and he knows what to do if not)
Do NOT give him money, or you will have this blood sucking leech stuck to you forever and asking/demanding MORE as time goes on.
His own direct family doesn't seem worried, so why are you

 

[ivinsfan]

Work is over-rated!

Right and I think the non-worker lives in Cali, so I thinks he's probably fine forever if he doesn't want to work.

 

[Chuckanut]

The problem is I believe his subsidy becomes cut if he starts working - as he'd likely have to report it. This is a large disincentive for him to go back to work. Let's say the rent subsidy is worth $1500/month in rent currently and he started a $15/hr job - giving back $2000/month.

I remember reading an article in which the writer stated that the highest marginal 'tax rates'in the country are on the poor and low-income people who start to make more money. Whether it's going back to work or simply taking a new job that boosts ones salary five or six thousand dollars a year, the hit after the loss of subsidies and other aid can be staggering.

 

[Chuckanut]

My guess is that he is working, just not at something most of us would consider a normal way to make money.

Beware, if you help him out, you may be creating your own Crazy Maker who will torment you for years.

"Gosh pc95, if you had lent/given me that $400 a few months ago, I would be fine today and not living in my car." <--- You don't want to go there.

Crazymaking is when a person sets you up to lose, as in the examples above: You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You’re put in lose-lose situations, but too many games are being played for you to reason yourself out of it. There is no rhyme, reason, or emotional understanding with a crazymaker.

 

[Sunset]

I remember reading an article in which the writer stated that the highest marginal 'tax rates'in the country are on the poor and low-income people who start to make more money. Whether it's going back to work or simply taking a new job that boosts ones salary five or six thousand dollars a year, the hit after the loss of subsidies and other aid can be staggering.

When we have aid that lasts a lifetime, we are making folks dependent, and the longer they are dependent, the harder it is to become independent.

People also have a short-term view sometimes, I remember folks telling me they didn't want to work overtime and get paid time and a half, as they would have to pay more income taxes

 

[jollystomper]

Few people are so financially prosperous that supporting a nair do well step-relative DOESN’T impact their financial standing, plans, and requirements.

I disagree. Note my comment was the level of support, which is not the same as supporting. Many folks give to charitable causes and incorporate the ability or desire to provide some level of support to others in their plans.