Tipping

[martyp]

Shared maybe, completely is false. And not greedy employers, they’ve just continued a tradition that’s existed for hundreds of years. You’ll find most servers in medium to high end restaurants prefer low wages with tips, they can do very well!

There have been many restaurant groups who have experimented with eliminating tipping and increasing server wages accordingly. Every one I’ve seen has failed, servers quit and went to restaurants that still used the traditional tip structure AND some customers quit going to no tip restaurants due to higher prices (ignorant but that’s what happened). Restaurants lost some customers and servers. Here are several case studies, by no means not all https://www.tvo.org/article/whatever-happened-to-the-no-tipping-experiment-it-failed.

I abhor the abuse servers have to put up with from entitled customers who take advantage of servers who can’t push back while they depend on tips. And some tip sharing schemes are crooked or unfair to better servers. So I’m not completely against replacing tipped jobs with paying servers 15-20% higher base wages and eliminating tipping - BUT it’s been shown that won’t work - unless it’s done industry wide. Presumably that would require legislation.

And it’s also been shown that increasing pay from minimum wage to $15/hour for lower wage positions, cost jobs. No reason to think that won’t happen with higher end servers if legislation forces higher hourly wages w no tips.

I agree with everything you’ve said here. If there is any blame to be assigned it is the American customers that insist on tipping. America is as divided on the issue of tipping as it is about many other aspects of American society.

 

[marko]

That has to represent less than 1% of the waiters, waitresses and isn't really a valid argument to bring into a general discussion about tipping

I know. Was just taking exception to the comment that servers can not be considered professionals. Slow day at the marko household and felt like typing.

 

[Chuckanut]

And it’s also been shown that increasing pay from minimum wage to $15/hour for lower wage positions, cost jobs. No reason to think that won’t happen with higher end servers if legislation forces higher hourly wages w no tips.

I recently went to a Japanese restaurant where the ordering and serving of the sushi is all mechanized. You order food by touching a picture of it on a screen. They have fast moving belts for solid foods, and a robot that brings the drinks to the table. You have about 20 seconds to remove the beverage before it leaves. We had a good laugh watching some people chase it down the aisle to get their drinks. Oh, the belts with the solid food also give the customer a limited time to grab the item before it zips the next item to another table. If your inattentive or have VERY slow reaction times you might not want to eat there.

The only thing served by humans, as far as I can see, are alcoholic drinks. I would think that state liquor laws are the driving factor behind that. You clear the table by putting your plate(s) into a slot at the end of the table. Since you get points towards cheesy gifts for the kids, most people are happy to do that. But, the human servers are 90% gone.

To get back on topic....

Payment is done with an tablet device and people still tip for the back room people making the sushi.

 

[Music Lover]

I know. Was just taking exception to the comment that servers can not be considered professionals. Slow day at the marko household and felt like typing.

The top 0.01% of almost every casual/entry level job or pastime could be considered professionals.

 

[thod]

In high school in the 80s, a friend and I worked at a seafood restaurant as busboys on Friday and Saturday nights. Technically we got paid minimum wage, so we did not have to participate in the tipping system.

But there would be an envelope in the office that the wait staff could put some money into for us on the nights we worked. We were getting very little money that way. My friend asked the manager if instead of the envelope method, they could just have each wait staff give us our tips personally as they left.

Doing that increased our tips 4X easily.

So even waiters can be skimpy tipping the people that help them turn tables faster.

My opinion on the situation happening now, is that it has gotten way out of control. In fact, I have pretty much just gotten in the habit of leaving no tip in the situations where I do not actually sit down and have food/drinks, etc brought to me.

The individuals working at fast food, etc locations are not being paid below minimum wage, so I feel no inclination to tip.

If we sit down and actually get served, then I will tip, but only up to 10%.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

If we sit down and actually get served, then I will tip, but only up to 10%.

Even I think 10% is a little low for today, 15% is my number. 20% and 25% are completely unnecessary IMHO.

If we made tipping mandatory for every sit-down meal at 10% then I would be a subscriber, but not for discretionary tipping.

We do not tip at Non sit down unserved establishments either. But then again, we do not eat at them unless there is absolutely no other choice as most of the food provided there is garbage anyway.

 

[GenXguy]

Even I think 10% is a little low for today, 15% is my number. 20% and 25% are completely unnecessary IMHO.

If we made tipping mandatory for every sit-down meal at 10% then I would be a subscriber, but not for discretionary tipping.

We do not tip at Non sit down unserved establishments either. But then again, we do not eat at them unless there is absolutely no other choice as most of the food provided there is garbage anyway.

Saw a new article / poll on tipping for sit-down meals today.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/20/mos...ess-at-a-restaurant-and-some-tip-nothing.html

• 57% of people tip 15% or less for a sit-down meal at a restaurant, according to a Pew Research Center poll.
• Of those, 37% said 15% is their standard tip and 18% tip something less than 15%. An additional 2% tip nothing, Pew found.

 

[Music Lover]

[*]57% of people tip 15% or less for a sit-down meal at a restaurant, according to a Pew Research Center poll.

It's annoying to be lectured that 15% is a bad tip.

 

[Music Lover]

Did I miss a lecture? Missing a college final is a reoccurring nightmare, but never a lecture. LOL.

Read the article.

 

[COcheesehead]

Read the article.

I did read it. I did not see a lecture in it though.

For complete transparency I have a PT hobby gig in retirement and most of my income is tips.

99% of the people tip. Most pretty well.

If you don’t want to tip, don’t.

The staff doesn’t look at the transactions and judge you by your tip. So you don’t have to be concerned about being cheap. Tip based on your experience or not.

 

[marko]

Even I think 10% is a little low for today, 15% is my number. 20% and 25% are completely unnecessary IMHO.
.

I'll tell you why I tip 20%: It's easier to calculate 20% in my head than 15%. Especially after a few drinks and an odd numbered tab.

What's 15% of $180? I don't know. And I'm not going to be so gauche as to whip out a calculator. But coming up with $36 is an easy number. It's worth the extra $9 to make it easy.

 

[COcheesehead]

I'll tell you why I tip 20%: It's easier to calculate 20% in my head than 15%. Especially after a few drinks and an odd numbered tab. What's 15% of $180? I don't know. But coming up with $36 is an easy number.

Take 10% of the tab, then add half again as much = 15%. So $180 x .10 = 18 + 1/2 of 18 = 9, total = $27.

 

[marko]

Take 10% of the tab, then add half again as much = 15%. So $180 x .10 = 18 + 1/2 of 18 = 9, total = $27.

If you've ever followed any threads that I've contributed to over the years, you'd know that doing that sort of calculation in real time is so far beyond my capabilities it isn't funny.

 

[Music Lover]

I did read it. I did not see a lecture in it though.

First they start with a falsehood:

When it comes to dining, tipping at least 15% to 20% is traditional etiquette, say experts.

No, traditional etiquette used to be 10%. Then the co-author is surprised at the percentage many people tip 15% or less.

“That did surprise me,” Drew DeSilver, co-author of the study, said of finding that more than half of people, 57%, tip 15% or less.

Maybe it's not a lecture per se, but he is passing judgment.

 

[Music Lover]

Just like you.

Stating a fact isn't judgmental.

 

[RetireBy90]

I don’t have a problem with a tip at a restaurant, we go a Locql Bob Evan’s, bill is less than $20 and we/I always leave a $5 bill for tip. We always get same waitress and she treats us well and is a joy to talk to although briefly. She adds to the meal. My BIL was a waiter, very friendly, and made $40-$50 an hour in tips. He earned that.
I don’t appreciate being prompted to tip when all you did is pour my coffee and you make $18 an hour (Starbucks minimum wage). I don’t tip there.
If you are a customer (I would say most or all here are customers) do what you want with your money. Tip or don’t, your choice.
If you are looking for a tip from me just to pour a coffee or like that, and don’t make enough doing what you do, find a job that pays what you want or need. Pouring a cup of coffee shouldn’t be a career.
Sorry for rant, but I feel better
Edit to add, taco hell is t a sit down for us, and no tip but my food of choice every couple weeks or if I’m constipated. Good stuff there.

 

[marko]

First they start with a falsehood

No, traditional etiquette used to be 10%. Then the co-author is surprised at the percentage many people tip 15% or less.

I don't know about that. Mom never cooked so we ate out almost every meal growing up. Even 55-60 years ago, I recall 15% being standard practice.

 

[Chuckanut]

I'll tell you why I tip 20%: It's easier to calculate 20% in my head than 15%. Especially after a few drinks and an odd numbered tab.

What's 15% of $180? I don't know. And I'm not going to be so gauche as to whip out a calculator. But coming up with $36 is an easy number. It's worth the extra $9 to make it easy.

Marko, you might consider reading a book on mental math. There are all sort of clever tricks and tactics to make mental math easier. Much easier in some cases. 15% of $180 is $27. I did that in my head in well under 5 seconds. No, i am not an idiot savant. Just an idiot at times.

Keep in mind that some states have a tipped and non-tipped minimum wage, while others have just a minimum wage. My state is the latter so I don’t feel bad tipping in the area of 15% and even 10% if all they did was hand me a muffin over the counter, and then I get to clean up my table after eating the muffin. Then there is the problem of figuring out which bin to dump the supposedly recyclable trash. There are three bins all with hieroglyphics that I can’t translate. This deserves a tip?

 

[COcheesehead]

If you've ever followed any threads that I've contributed to over the years, you'd know that doing that sort of calculation in real time is so far beyond my capabilities it isn't funny.

I know, math is a second language for you, but you can always start to learn, right?

 

[GenXguy]

No, traditional etiquette used to be 10%. Then the co-author is surprised at the percentage many people tip 15% or less.

That's true. I used to be a waiter back in the late 80's, and 10% would have been considered respectable at the time. Some are even trying to push the expected tip to 25% or more these days.

 

[marko]

I know, math is a second language for you, but you can always start to learn, right?

Old dog, new tricks? "Second language" is being charitable. Sometimes its like the 4th dimension for me!

 

[Montecfo]

Take 10% of the tab, then add half again as much = 15%. So $180 x .10 = 18 + 1/2 of 18 = 9, total = $27.

It is simple. Even I can do it.

 

[Time2]

Sorry, I can't find the short, but the fellow pans his camera to show, no employees, he gets his own cup and fills it with soda, goes to the cash register, taps his card, and the computer asks if he what's to pay a tip.

 

[GenXguy]

Sorry, I can't find the short, but the fellow pans his camera to show, no employees, he gets his own cup and fills it with soda, goes to the cash register, taps his card, and the computer asks if he what's to pay a tip.

There's an X-Files episode where Mulder declined to tip in a restaurant with no employees which got the AI after him and Scully.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6803124/

 

[flyingaway]

Do you guys tip at McDonald's, now they have people send your orders to your table?