Vexing Dental Health Questions

[lucky penny]

No idea.

As others have said....get a second opinion.

Just wondering ... Seems like a lot of x-rays would be involved if you see one or 2 other dentists to get their opinions. Do dentists commonly give you copies of your x-rays to take to others for a second opinion? Will the new dentists rely on these or insist on taking their own?

 

[MC Rider]

Just wondering ... Seems like a lot of x-rays would be involved if you see one or 2 other dentists to get their opinions. Do dentists commonly give you copies of your x-rays to take to others for a second opinion? Will the new dentists rely on these or insist on taking their own?

The X rays belong to you. Tell dentist to send them to to you by e mail.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I posted that article. My dentist joined his group practice at the same time we moved here. I seriously cracked a tooth one Friday night. I called the practice after hours and he opened the office for me at 8AM the next day. He did the drilling, molding, provided a temporary crown, everything, without staff on hand.

Yes, it wasn’t cheap, but it was worth every penny. The bill was not egregious. That is the kind of dentist one should find. Their hygienists even try to keep the same patients.

I feel seriously fortunate.

 

[Buckeye]

I failed to go to the dentist for a few years. No pain does not mean no problems brewing!



Picked one from insurance co list. They did X rays. Called in the perio guy. They said skip the cleaning, let's go to extraction, like 8 or 9 teeth, stat! Sent someone in to help me fill out a credit app for a $9k of $10k credit line. WTF?!


Told them I wanted a second opinion, and they we mailed me the x rays in pdf form, iirc. Second place agreed prognosis of those teeth was not good, but did some gum surgery work to try and save them. Eventually they had to come out anyway. One broke while I was eating a bratwurst. Second perio guy says I am not a good candidate for implants due to bone loss/ gum disease.


Anyway. First dental office money grubbers, second one good. Shop around. Time to remove my "partials". Ugh.

And even if you regularly go to the dentist, you still might not save a tooth if the dentist doesn't have good tools to keep an eye on the health of old root canals. I had two fail after 20-25 years. One could be saved by my fantastic endodontist but he refused to waste my money on the second one. Luckily, the dentist I found for the implant has the tools to look underneath and he's now my regular dentist.

 

[meridiver]

In the beginning of March 2020, I saw my regular dentist (part of an HMO type dental practice) who recommended a deep cleaning because my gum "pockets" were getting deeper. It had been 20+ years since I'd had one, so I figured I was probably due and scheduled 2 deep cleaning appts for late March. Even with my insurance, it was going to cost 500+ dollars out of pocket.

Well, we all know what happened next so I cancelled the appointments and proceeded to go for 1.5 yrs without seeing the dentist. When I finally called to get an appointment for just a checkup and a regular cleaning, I was informed that because insurance had already approved the deep clean, I could not get just a regularly scheduled "free" cleaning (my insurance pays in full for 2 of those each year).

This sounded pretty fishy to me so a friend recommended her dentist (I paid cash, out of pocket). I went in for a checkup and cleaning, and was informed that my teeth "looked great", "see you in 6 months".

TLDR - get a second opinion. Now I'm wondering how many other procedures were performed that I never needed in the first place.

By the way, the dentists (doctors, optometrists, etc.) in Algodones are great. My dad lived in Yuma, just across the border and tons of retired people living there get all of their dental, routine medical care, eyeglasses, done there for very low cost, not to mention picking up meds at the pharmacies for a fraction of the price charged here.

 

[gooddog]

Go to another dentist. Or 3. I would not want a dentist that wants to go looking for problems. Presumably they did a xray? That should be all they need, no silly "inspection".

And yeah, crowns go, but you don't need to rush it.

+1

 

[mn54]

I failed to go to the dentist for a few years. No pain does not mean no problems brewing!



Picked one from insurance co list. They did X rays. Called in the perio guy. They said skip the cleaning, let's go to extraction, like 8 or 9 teeth, stat! Sent someone in to help me fill out a credit app for a $9k of $10k credit line. WTF?!


Told them I wanted a second opinion, and they we mailed me the x rays in pdf form, iirc. Second place agreed prognosis of those teeth was not good, but did some gum surgery work to try and save them. Eventually they had to come out anyway. One broke while I was eating a bratwurst. Second perio guy says I am not a good candidate for implants due to bone loss/ gum disease.


Anyway. First dental office money grubbers, second one good. Shop around. Time to remove my "partials". Ugh.

i'm confused. you say the first office was money grubbers but what they told you ended up to be true. you had the periodontal surgery done to try and save the questionable teeth but they were extracted in the end anyway. the 9-10k credit was probably for the extractions, bone grafting and future implant placement which would be a whole lot more than 10k. maybe there was some miscommunication.

 

[chassis]

I was in the middle of some restorative dental work when the pandemic hit. I did not schedule follow up appointments with my oral surgeon & dentist - for some time after, their offices were closed and I had the fear of the unknown (having heard that dental work was particularly risky). I am not in pain or discomfort.

In the meantime, I retired and moved to FLA.

Neighbors here recommended a dental practice affiliated with the university - not the university free clinic, this is a regular paid dental practice, they just happen to be located at the university.

I scheduled an appointment with them to see about getting the work finished.
I met with a dental team there and yes, they can finish the work, but it did not stop there.

I have several 20 - 30 year old crowns, some of the teeth have root canals. I think due to time and aging, some of teeth have larger margins (spaces where bacteria can collect).

Nevertheless, I am not experiencing any pain or sensitivity with these teeth and I am a scrupulous brusher & flosser.

The dental team is recommending that not only will they finish the work in progress, that they also want to remove all of my other crowns to inspect my teeth to see if they have any "life" left to them or whether they should be extracted and replaced with implants.

Setting the expense aside for a moment, I am just having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of removing teeth that are not currently giving me any problems.

I recognize that with age comes older teeth and new issues - but I am thinking I'd rather address them when they become problematic - but I guess to the dentists - they are already problematic because they are older.

I would really, really appreciate hearing from anyone here who has faced this issue and how they ended up dealing with it?

FWIW, I grew up on a rural farm with well water - no fluoride. My family members have lost teeth and tend not to replace them .

It's been my goal to hold onto and take care of my teeth as much as I can. I even use remineralizing solution to try to strengthen them.

Appreciate all comments. Thank you.

They’re money grubbing. Digging for gold.

About 50% of the dental practices I have experienced are money grubbing gold diggers.

Get the treatment you decide that you need, if any.

 

[LJ Dem]

I had a crown snap the tooth off at the gum. Oral surgeon suggested a $850 extraction and preparation for a $2250 implant. Then 9 months later, he'd put a $875 abutment in and send me to my regular dentist for a $850 crown on the abutment.

My dentist told me the oral surgeon has a $450K full head MRI to pay for--and that's why he's so expensive.

I went to another dentist that did the implant in 6 minutes--less work and stress than a filling even. And I saved $2K too.

If a tooth has a serious problem, the pain will tell you. Otherwise, don't have anything done. A second opinion is welcome in your case.

You had an implant done in 6 minutes? I’d love to hear more, I thought they took months (remove, bone settle or graft, drill, then implant…) what is this magic?

(I have a dead rear molar from an old root canal and the crown broke off at the gum line in February 2020. So we just put amalgam on top to cover it until the pandemic resolved or I decided next step. So far, not sure I’ll bother with an implant).

 

[Old Microbiologist]

Be careful not to overdo it with a waterpick as it disrupts the biofilm established on the teeth. Better is once a day lightly and still floss. Better still is to add yogurt with bacteria in it that the mouth needs.

 

[Gary 1958]

Sounds like your dentist is doing some remodeling on his home and your going to be paying for it. Find a new dentist that isn't a crook.

 

[Sue J]

When our younger son was still on DHs dental plan from work he went in for a cleaning and xray. He told them that next year he'd be off of DHs plan and would no longer have dental insurance.

With that info they gave him a long list of stuff that needed to be done by the end of the year, including removing wisdom teeth and some other stuff.

His wisdom teeth (he only has two) have never given him any problems and I don't think he's even had any cavities. But seeing that his insurance was ending he suddenly had urgent issues. This was over 10 years ago and he's still getting along fine with his wisdom teeth!

Recent good news is that he just started a new job with a big university (Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland) and they have a dental college. It may even be included in his benefits.

 

[Turbo29]

Be careful not to overdo it with a waterpick as it disrupts the biofilm established on the teeth. Better is once a day lightly and still floss. Better still is to add yogurt with bacteria in it that the mouth needs.

Isn't disrupting the biofilm the whole point of brushing your teeth?


"Undisturbed biofilms may promote the formation of calculus, demineralization, caries, gingival inflammation, and periodontal disease.[13] Gingivitis affects 50%–90% of the adult population, and 47% of US adults have periodontitis.[14] Therefore, frequent disruption of biofilms is essential in preventing plaque formation."


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16930306/

 

[athena53]

He told them that next year he'd be off of DHs plan and would no longer have dental insurance.

With that info they gave him a long list of stuff that needed to be done by the end of the year, including removing wisdom teeth and some other stuff.

And if he'd gone for all the work you probably would have been stuck with a big bill. Most employer dental plans have a max they'll pay for everything in a given calendar year and it's typically $1,500-$2,000.

 

[mn54]

You had an implant done in 6 minutes? I’d love to hear more, I thought they took months (remove, bone settle or graft, drill, then implant…) what is this magic?

(I have a dead rear molar from an old root canal and the crown broke off at the gum line in February 2020. So we just put amalgam on top to cover it until the pandemic resolved or I decided next step. So far, not sure I’ll bother with an implant).

the actual procedure to drill the hole and place the implant does not take very long, more like 15 minutes. you spend more time taking the cbct xray and studying it to make sure there is enough bone to place the implant into and getting the correct angulation. once the implant has been placed then you normally wait a few months for the implant to osseointegrate with the bone before placing the abutment and then making the crown.

 

[GoodbyeYellow]

Our experience with dentists has been hit-or-miss. We did have one for about 18 years. Never oversold things but he up and retired suddenly. Since then we have bounced around, five dentists now in six years (to be fair, we had one other good one but he died!).

We are now with one that checks most boxes I am looking for, which are along the below lines. Some of these are hard to tell without being in-person.
- Middle-aged. This means it is likely they have paid off student debt but not so old they may up and retire shortly.
- Office and equipment - nice, but not too nice. This means that overhead is not crazy, but neither are they penny-pinchers. Beware the 'latest-and-greatest' gadgets and machines.
- Heavily reviewed, not just on the public sites but also for example within the insurer's site (we are on Cigna for now, this one was #1 ranked in the area with lots of reviews).
- Does NOT advertise. Hope this is self-explanatory.
- On the subject of advertising - has little to no in-office 3rd party advertising, such as Invisalign. Hope this is self-explanatory too.
- Staff is either younger (<30) or older (>55). I know this sounds like ageism but IMO these age groups are less likely to insist on money first. The younger ones are looking for growth and experience, the older ones want stability and not-crazy work conditions. Of course, exceptions abound so YMMV.

 

[GoodbyeYellow]

And some of the posts here bring to mind an old joke:

Guy goes to see the dentist, who advises on a whole bunch of work. Patient says "that sounds expensive". Dentist replies "no problem, you can put $5,000 down, then $600 a month for 48 months, then a balloon payment of $10,000".

Patient says "sounds like buying a boat". Dentist: "I am".

 

[SunnyOne]

Isn't disrupting the biofilm the whole point of brushing your teeth?


"Undisturbed biofilms may promote the formation of calculus, demineralization, caries, gingival inflammation, and periodontal disease.[13] Gingivitis affects 50%–90% of the adult population, and 47% of US adults have periodontitis.[14] Therefore, frequent disruption of biofilms is essential in preventing plaque formation."


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16930306/
__________________

From what I've gathered, it's a balance. You want to disrupt the bacteria often enough that they are not able to form into colonies the lead to inflammation.
On the other hand, if you are too aggressive, it lessens the number of protective microbes that are necessary for health and the production of nitric oxide which is cardio protective. There are a slew of studies showing too frequent use of antimicrobial mouthwash can lead to cardio issues.

The body she is complicated. I brush and floss every day - only use the water pik about 2 X per week.

 

[RetiredHappy]

In the beginning of March 2020, I saw my regular dentist (part of an HMO type dental practice) who recommended a deep cleaning because my gum "pockets" were getting deeper. It had been 20+ years since I'd had one, so I figured I was probably due and scheduled 2 deep cleaning appts for late March. Even with my insurance, it was going to cost 500+ dollars out of pocket.

Well, we all know what happened next so I cancelled the appointments and proceeded to go for 1.5 yrs without seeing the dentist. When I finally called to get an appointment for just a checkup and a regular cleaning, I was informed that because insurance had already approved the deep clean, I could not get just a regularly scheduled "free" cleaning (my insurance pays in full for 2 of those each year).

This sounded pretty fishy to me so a friend recommended her dentist (I paid cash, out of pocket). I went in for a checkup and cleaning, and was informed that my teeth "looked great", "see you in 6 months".

Same experience here... We had just moved from California to Nevada and needed to find a new dentist. First dentist was fine, practice passed down from father to son, saw the son. We were not thrilled with the constant changing of hygienists and the last one being not so good. We went shopping for a new dentist.

Second dentist - She used something to poked so hard that I was in alot of pain and started tearing. She said my gums were bleeding and needed deep cleaning. I told her that it was the most pain any dentist had ever inflicted on me and that I never had bleeding gums as I flossed every day. She insisted that she was not going to clean my teeth and to come back for deep cleaning. I left, yanked my husband out of the office as he was next to be seen.

Third dentist - Dentist said he was not going to clean my teeth as my teeth were very clean. He said I should have deep cleaning done because of receding gum line. I left.

Fourth dentist. Took a bunch of X-rays and the hygienist saw me first, YAY! She said my teeth and gums were in excellent condition. No tartar, and only minor loose plaque which she cleaned off. I told her what happened at dentist #2 and #3 and she said she was shocked that they pushed for deep cleaning. Deep cleaning = more money for dentist. The dentist came by to check after the cleaning. Gave me thumbs up. I was only able to see this dentist twice before COVID hit and I just went back to see the hygienist again last month. She complimented the condition of my gums and teeth despite not having seen her for 18 months. Usual cleaning and to come back in 6 months. We are keeping this hygienist and dentist practice.

 

[mn54]

Same experience here... We had just moved from California to Nevada and needed to find a new dentist. First dentist was fine, practice passed down from father to son, saw the son. We were not thrilled with the constant changing of hygienists and the last one being not so good. We went shopping for a new dentist.

Second dentist - She used something to poked so hard that I was in alot of pain and started tearing. She said my gums were bleeding and needed deep cleaning. I told her that it was the most pain any dentist had ever inflicted on me and that I never had bleeding gums as I flossed every day. She insisted that she was not going to clean my teeth and to come back for deep cleaning. I left, yanked my husband out of the office as he was next to be seen.

Third dentist - Dentist said he was not going to clean my teeth as my teeth were very clean. He said I should have deep cleaning done because of receding gum line. I left.

Fourth dentist. Took a bunch of X-rays and the hygienist saw me first, YAY! She said my teeth and gums were in excellent condition. No tartar, and only minor loose plaque which she cleaned off. I told her what happened at dentist #2 and #3 and she said she was shocked that they pushed for deep cleaning. Deep cleaning = more money for dentist. The dentist came by to check after the cleaning. Gave me thumbs up. I was only able to see this dentist twice before COVID hit and I just went back to see the hygienist again last month. She complimented the condition of my gums and teeth despite not having seen her for 18 months. Usual cleaning and to come back in 6 months. We are keeping this hygienist and dentist practice.

the fourth dentist took a bunch of x-rays? didn't the first, second, or third dentist take x-rays? somebody must have taken x-rays before you got to number 4 and those x-rays should have been sent to the fourth one. no need for extra x-rays that close together.

 

[chassis]

Our experience with dentists has been hit-or-miss. We did have one for about 18 years. Never oversold things but he up and retired suddenly. Since then we have bounced around, five dentists now in six years (to be fair, we had one other good one but he died!).

We are now with one that checks most boxes I am looking for, which are along the below lines. Some of these are hard to tell without being in-person.
- Middle-aged. This means it is likely they have paid off student debt but not so old they may up and retire shortly.
- Office and equipment - nice, but not too nice. This means that overhead is not crazy, but neither are they penny-pinchers. Beware the 'latest-and-greatest' gadgets and machines.
- Heavily reviewed, not just on the public sites but also for example within the insurer's site (we are on Cigna for now, this one was #1 ranked in the area with lots of reviews).
- Does NOT advertise. Hope this is self-explanatory.
- On the subject of advertising - has little to no in-office 3rd party advertising, such as Invisalign. Hope this is self-explanatory too.
- Staff is either younger (<30) or older (>55). I know this sounds like ageism but IMO these age groups are less likely to insist on money first. The younger ones are looking for growth and experience, the older ones want stability and not-crazy work conditions. Of course, exceptions abound so YMMV.

Good list. Too bad so many dentists have slimy business practices.

 

[Luvdogs]

We've been going to the same dentist for almost 30 years. He's been great! But the last few times I've been afraid that he's going to tell me he is retiring but so far so good...

But when our kids were toddlers, he would not see them because they were, well toddlers, too "scrambly"!

We found a pediatric dentist money grabber with a big fancy office with a saltwater fish tank and all sorts of things to keep them occupied in the waiting room. It was a huge office/mill.

Each time they had 5+ "cavities." Gave them nitrous oxide and they didn't care.

Once they were old enough to go back to our regular dentist, they miraculously did not have any cavities...

 

[RetiredHappy]

the fourth dentist took a bunch of x-rays? didn't the first, second, or third dentist take x-rays? somebody must have taken x-rays before you got to number 4 and those x-rays should have been sent to the fourth one. no need for extra x-rays that close together.

Everyone of the dentists took a bunch of x-rays.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I had my #3 Molar pulled and dead guys bones installed this week. Not cheap, but will pay in stages as Doc does the work. Next after healing is the implant, then abutment, then Crown. Could be up to 9 months.

 

[athena53]

I had my #3 Molar pulled and dead guys bones installed this week.

Please. They're called cadavers. Yeah, I owe my dental health to quite a few cadavers- just had 2 implants placed a couple of weeks ago.