What's the Big Deal if Your Cell Phone Learns Stuff About You?

[Qs Laptop]

What's the Big Deal if Your Cell Phone or Computer Learns Stuff About You?

Over on the "Reliance on Cell Phones" thread many people were lamenting the idea of cell phones gathering information on them and creating a profile for various purposes. Seems there are people that zealously guard against Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, individual web sites, GMail, Outlook, Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. learning anything about them.

Unless a person is doing something illegal or immoral, what is it about these entities knowing your approximate age, some of your buying habits, your zip code, the car you drive, etc. that gets people's knickers twisted?

For example, I did a Google search on 65" TV's recently. Yes, in the next couple of days I'm seeing ads for TV's. I searched for computer power supplies and the next day I'm seeing ads for power supplies.

I've noticed a lot of people on ER.org have a visceral response to the idea that someone is gathering information on them. What could some entity do with this information that is so alarming? Surely it can't be target advertising.

I'd really like concrete examples of harmful things that can result if Google or Microsoft knows your demographics. This stuff can be found out about you even if you don't have Facebook or Gmail. It might take a while longer to gather it up but the info is out there.

Hackers getting into your computer or cell phone DOES NOT fall into this category and should not be given as an example you may list.

 

[jurgs01]

Rofl. The government needs people like you on the path to Chinese style social credit scores.

Who determines what is right? What if prohibited items are something you value? What if you become the enemy?

 

[jurgs01]

On a side note, Google and Microsoft work very closely with government. They are as private as Lockheed Martin.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Rofl. The government needs people like you on the path to Chinese style social credit scores.

Who determines what is right? What if prohibited items are something you value? What if you become the enemy?

Obviously I would object if government was somehow acquiring this information for the purpose of making a list of political friends or enemies.

I asked for concrete examples of harmful things that Google (Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon) can learn about you.

Wanna give it another shot?

 

[Qs Laptop]

On a side note, Google and Microsoft work very closely with government. They are as private as Lockheed Martin.

You fill out your 1040 form, right? What more can government learn from Google and Microsoft that they don't already know?

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread with conspiracy theories. Let's stick to the topic of tech companies learning stuff about you.

 

[target2019]

Obviously you believe that no harm will come to your right to privacy. Good luck with that.

This is what many others know to be true:
https://www.eff.org/issues/privacy

Some nations do better at protecting your privacy, and are always challenging big tech on their practices. Others tout the rights of businesses to gather every piece of information about you. The abuses of the latter are plentiful. Front and foremost are the many hacks which place all of that information in databases controlled by the dark internet. Good luck.

 

[Pellice]

loL, I WISH companies were sending me "personalized ads." I click on ads sometimes on birding sites in hopes I'll be flooded with offers for new spotting scope tripods or similar. Or a new convection toaster oven. Never works. Instead, if I've clicked even one shoe ad in the past year I'm in for endless offers for shoes. If you ever want to throw your online trackers off, just indicate an interest in shoes! I also seem to be getting lots of dog ads, even though I have a cat rather than a dog.

Right now, I'm opting to keep my location settings ON. If I disappear, I hopefully can be tracked. If I want to opt out at some point, it seems easy enough.

 

[Aerides]

I don't believe there's any major risk, but my infosec background always trained me that we should only request/store/use data that was absolutely needed to perform the transaction/account, whatever. So many apps/pages, etc., ask for more than they should need...ie, no one "needs" my birthday info.

The more data a 3rd party gathers and stores, the higher risk that a bad actor can steal it from them and use it maliciously. I don't have to know what all those bad things might be, I just prefer to reduce my risk (quite easily) by opting out of anything that doesn't benefit me directly.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Obviously you believe that no harm will come to your right to privacy. Good luck with that.

Obviously, I never said I believed anything one way or the other. I did ask for concrete examples of harm that can come to you if tech companies know your demographics.

 

[W2R]

Over on the "Reliance on Cell Phones" thread many people were lamenting the idea of cell phones gathering information on them and creating a profile for various purposes. Seems there are people that zealously guard against Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, individual web sites, GMail, Outlook, Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. learning anything about them.

Unless a person is doing something illegal or immoral, what is it about these entities knowing your approximate age, some of your buying habits, your zip code, the car you drive, etc. that gets people's knickers twisted?

For example, I did a Google search on 65" TV's recently. Yes, in the next couple of days I'm seeing ads for TV's. I searched for computer power supplies and the next day I'm seeing ads for power supplies.

I've noticed a lot of people on ER.org have a visceral response to the idea that someone is gathering information on them. What could some entity do with this information that is so alarming? Surely it can't be target advertising.

I'd really like concrete examples of harmful things that can result if Google or Microsoft knows your demographics. This stuff can be found out about you even if you don't have Facebook or Gmail. It might take a while longer to gather it up but the info is out there.

Hackers getting into your computer or cell phone DOES NOT fall into this category and should not be given as an example you may list.

I think that the value (or lack thereof) of privacy is cultural. Personally I am, and was brought up in, a "WASP" culture; my family and my people value privacy a great deal. This seems not to be true of all people and cultures.

To us, lack of privacy objectifies and degrades one, and puts one in the "less than human" category. So there's a concrete example of harmful things that can result from lack of respect for one's privacy.

For example, it's one thing if I am asked and volunteer to an invasion of privacy (such as stripping off my clothing); it's another if my privacy is wrenched from me without my consent ("Go to it, boys! Tear all her clothing off until she is naked as a jaybird.") This is also true for lesser violations of privacy, such as wresting personal information from someone without their consent.

I could go on, but I think that's probably unnecessary.

 

[aja8888]

My phone knows more about me than my DW does. I have secrets.

 

[dixonge]

I block most ads so not worried about *that* particular angle, BUT...

The main problem I have is the retroactive data mining issue. Workflow is something like this:

1. Every app and web site tracks and collects data on me.
2. This data is often combined and bundled. While it is theoretically anonymized, this is easily defeated.
3. At some point the government accesses a copy and zips it over to their massive storage facility in Utah.
4. At some point hackers access a copy and distribute it through nefarious means.
5. At some other, future point, I may be targeted by a government or a hacker, either because I pissed someone off, or due to a simple mixup.
6. Once targeted, everything someone wants to know about me can be accessed. My life could become infinitely more difficult.

In this scenario, hopefully an unlikely one, my innocence and morality won't matter.

THAT is the problem. It's not that Google Location knows where I was last Thursday, it's that an identity thief, a stalker, or an LEO with a warrant based on a mistaken identity could also easily know these things about me, all enabled by that computer in my pocket.

Fortunately this is a very unlikely scenario, but it does bother me. Here's a related story, and it probes the ethics of it all. Hopefully law enforcement never makes a mistake in this area...

The untold story of how the Golden State Killer was found

Chicago man says 60 stops by police due to mistaken identity

 

[razztazz]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-08/man-in-the-window

The untold story of how the Golden State Killer was found

Chicago man says 60 stops by police due to mistaken identity

Ozzie and Harriet's other son, Ricky Nelson's older bro, was mistakenly put on a terrorist watch list for like the last 10 years of his life and he never was able to beat it even tho The Establishment acknowledged it was erroneous.

 

[target2019]

Obviously you believe that no harm will come to your right to privacy. Good luck with that.

This is what many others know to be true:
https://www.eff.org/issues/privacy

Some nations do better at protecting your privacy, and are always challenging big tech on their practices. Others tout the rights of businesses to gather every piece of information about you. The abuses of the latter are plentiful. Front and foremost are the many hacks which place all of that information in databases controlled by the dark internet. Good luck.

Obviously, I never said I believed anything one way or the other. I did ask for concrete examples of harm that can come to you if tech companies know your demographics.

I repeat my entire response to you so that the context is understood.

By your OP and subsequent responses it is clear to me that you won't accept the danger of privacy loss. I included a link for additional understanding. I encourage you to research this issue further. The legal entities collecting this information can not guarantee that your information is protected from illegal access.

There are many instances of security breaches, and the stolen data gets aggregated on the dark net where it is sold and bought. It has been demonstrated over and over again that various pieces of public or unclassified data can be combined in a way to discover secret data. This is why the EU, for instance, has stricter controls on what information companies can collect from you.

What is further interesting is that in the US both political approaches recognize that what they've allowed to happen over the last 40 years has not resulted in a better society. Of course they blame the other politicians for this state, but the correct answer is that we've all let this happen.

 

[sengsational]

If there's a product that requires a hard-sell, I'm simply not buying. I don't feel compelled to prove to anyone why I'm not buying. Maybe I'm not justified in my dismissal, but I'm not going to get tied up in that. This is simply the way I choose to live. By analogy, if companies use every opportunity to slyly acquire your cell phone number and associated details, and through trading information with other entities, build up way more information than they need to serve me as their customer, then I'm going to play by my rules as much as possible. Another analogy comes into play...I don't need to live in an impenetrable fortress, I just need to have a better security system than most houses in my neighborhood. So as long as there are people opening their digital kimono to 5 overseas lightbulb makers along with the apps that actually might benefit from knowing the personal digital details, then those who routinely ask "why do they need to know that?" and take conservative action, will be of less interest if there ever is abuse.

 

[Time2]

For me it is a tradeoff, google knows every car ride I take, every bike ride and every walk, I don't like that, but I do like the monthly report where I can see how many miles I walked or when I took a certain trip, seems handy. Google also knows how many hours I spend watching Youtube videos. (tail between legs hanging head in shame), but I can use the history if I want to pull up that video again. A far as personalizes ads, I use adblock on my computer, so I miss most of them, and I gloss over ads on my phone so can't recall them but maybe they got into my subconscious mind. I don't know, but surely not causing me to over spend.

 

[Bigdawg]

sort of related-not looking to hijack this thread: DNA. I was told early in my military career that I had to give a blood(DNA) sample. The reason behind this was to identify me in case I got obliterated in an explosion and the only way to identify me was through DNA. Ok fine, I have been retired from active duty for 9 years now and have no further service obligation. Give me my DNA back. Nope. I am in their database and will remain there into perpetuity. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I could be.

 

[pacergal]

Growing up with party line phones, there was no privacy in my youth. Any phone conversation could be listened too.

Working for a public govt. entity my DH and My salary was published and on a data base that anyone could access. No privacy there.

I make attempts to keep my phone and computer secure.

My biggest concern is the threat of Identity theft. It seems that creates such havoc in peoples lives that goes on for years.

 

[youbet]

Obviously I would object if government was somehow acquiring this information for the purpose of making a list of political friends or enemies.

Well, ya better get busy "objecting" then!

 

[Gumby]

For me it is a tradeoff, google knows every car ride I take, every bike ride and every walk, I don't like that, but I do like the monthly report where I can see how many miles I walked or when I took a certain trip, seems handy.....

How does Google know where you go?

 

[aja8888]

How does Google know where you go?

If you have location tracking service on (I think that is what it is called), it creates a map of everywhere your phone has been. Quite thorough and accurate.

 

[Time2]

How does Google know where you go?

If you are suggesting that I let it, yes I do.

If you want to know where this is at, Use google on your phone and search 'My Google Activity' see what you have checked.
Further down is 25 Cards in you feed. Some I understand other I don't, ads from doordash and ebay, Amber heard, OK, animal, art, no idea. Boogie Woogie, ya, I watch Brendan Kavanagh play piano with others in a airport, mall? Edit: to add this Boogie woogie duo with Brendan Kavanagh that I just watched, I dare you to set still!

Food, health, Humor, OK , Johnny Depp, ya, Penguin Crunch, wtf? and several others that made no sense.
Scrolling down further is my Youtube history, I don't know how far back this goes, but I did an awful lot of up swiping and it goes and goes and goes.
As aja888 says, it is quite thorough and accurate, but often when I go to a Lowes, and drive by ABC liquor, it asks me how I liked ABC liquor, I swear I did not stop there! lol



https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-get-google-to-quit-tracking-you

 

[grasshopper]

Guilty. I use location on my cell phone. If a pesky rattlesnake bit me and I died Ms G would know where to find my cold body. Yea my dogs aren't as smart as Lassie and would never fetch anyone for help.

 

[Time2]

Guilty. I use location on my cell phone. If a pesky rattlesnake bit me and I died Ms G would know where to find my cold body. Yea my dogs aren't as smart as Lassie and would never fetch anyone for help.

This morning I rode my bike to the store, I grabbed my wallet and thought I don't want to carry that, so I stuck a $20 bill in my pocket, then I thought, what if I have a health problem? I have no ID, my phone is locked, no one will be able to figure out who I am. The police won't take a missing person report for 24 hours. How will I be identified? OK, I embellished on that a lot, but I did carry my wallet.


On the plus side of being tracked, if I'm ever accused of a bank robbery, I could pull up my google time line, and see that I was 5 miles away! Well at least my phone was. lol

 

[grasshopper]

What a surprise off topic. Just did a two week trip to Utah for Zion and Bryce Canyon, and Organ Pipe on the way home. So Google maps doesn't just track our journey, but wants me to review all the parks, lodges, and places we ate. Now I can reply to where the best pies in your travel posts are.