Where to retire to

[unclemick]

Or, some of us who moved a lot when we were younger are really thrilled at being able to finally "set down roots". At least I am. I have lived in Louisiana for 20 years by now, and love the fledgling roots that have begun to sprout.

If I start feeling restless, I will just change my mind. I understand that's the female's prerogative.

Greater Portland/Vancouver, Seattle area, Denver area, Huntsville Alabama, New Orleans, and Kansas City.

First on the list was growing up, second college and the space program.

heh heh heh - the last two women were involved along with ER. Call me a wuss but when they are happy the location is a piece of cake.

 

[martyp]

Marty, what things did he find different?


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

I always tell people that being retired is not like being on vacation. My friend is discovering that difference. You don't live real life by sightseeing or going out to bars every night. You are not trying to pack in every experience into a short time span. You need to live off a budget. You need to find sustainable interests. Making friends in a foreign country can be a trial too.

 

[DEC-1982]

Great post. Subscribing to continue watching it.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Wonderful post.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[OldPro]

Welcome old pro. Great perspective

I was a global nomad and fired at 45. I'm not in my permanent place. I assume we will continue a global nomad lifestyle until we can't do that any longer - health or kids or parents or god knows what ....

After 6 countries in 28 years I still haven't found nirvana. It's not because the places are bad. It's because I keep changing what I want and need in life .... Alignment doesn't last for infinity.

Big cities are great til u want peace and quiet. Communist countries are great til u want a taste of freedom. Beach resort islands are nice til u need a level 4 trauma center.

It's a trade off. But as a younger retiree I am as sure as the sun rising every day that our needs over time in retirement locations will change ...

I view it just as chapters in a book. We are on our 7th or 8th chapter.

Different strokes for different folks. Most Americans have never lived anywhere but America. Less than 10 percent even hold passports to travel abroad! Their idea of "place" is very permanent. Home base. Not at all temporary. To them, it's all they know. Their idea of next is ...quite frankly...the cemetery. They can not handle change. Don't know how to deal with it. Adaptation is not a developed skill. Not their fault. After X years in one stable place it's hard to change even for a global nomad.

Welcome and please hang around. We can learn a lot from older guys such as yourself.

And for discussion here is My next list: Vietnam. Cambodia. Ecuador or Nicaragua. Portugal.


2015. marked the first year to consolidate 28 years of crap in 3 storage units. Needless to say goodwill loved me in 2015. What a waste of money to store crap. Admittedly we never thought we would be gone for decades... And the kids were small and we didn't know they would grow up eventually. Ha ha funny as that sounds...

Where were u living before ?

Good to see another 'nomad' here papadad111. We must have pulled the plug around the same time. For me it was 1989 at age 43.

You write that "alignment doesn't last for infinity" and I totally agree with that. When I was 43, I didn't even worry about health insurance or 'what if'. Now, coming up on my 70th birthday next month, I need to think a bit differently. That is one of the major reasons(but certainly not the only reason) why we are now living in Canada where healthcare is world class and easily affordable.

Yet some people do seem to think that they can pick a spot on a map and make a permanent move. It works fine till they find they have a need that means they need to move again but I always think it would work a bit better if they considered that to begin with. At the same time, I realize not everyone is comfortable thinking that way. They want their 'permanent' nest.

Regarding not handling change and never having move far from home, I think that is true of most countries and people. I sometimes talk about comfort zones. Most people have a relatively small comfort zone in regards to where they live and can be happy. Those who have moved to other places may or may not be able to successfully grow their comfort zone. You certainly appear to have done so, as have I. But I also recognize that the ability to 'stick' as I refer to it, does not work for everyone. Different is just too far outside their comfort zone to adapt to. Not right or wrong, good or bad, just different.

You ask where I was before. I was born in the UK but emigrated with my parents to Canada when I was 7. So I grew up in Canada and consider myself Canadian. Before I retired, I travelled quite a lot all over the world including 2 separate 1 year trips. I also moved from one side of Canada to the other a couple of times with job transfers. So I was no stranger to new places before I retired.

After I retired, I travelled for a year or so, stopped in France for a year or so and then ended up in Greece for 7 years. After Greece I moved to the UK (met and married my wife) and stayed for 6.5 years before moving with her to British Columbia. Three years in BC and then moved to Ontario where we have now been since 2006. So where we are now is my longest stretch in one place for going on 27 years.

Your list for your next is interesting. I have never had an interest in either SEA or SA beyond a travel/tourism destination. I've travelled Africa from north to south and spent several years in total travelling in Europe (not counting living in obviously). I've also spent a fair bit of time(vacations) in sailing destinations all over the world. I will go anywhere for a couple of weeks but to live in a place I do want first world standards in pretty much everything.

 

[OldPro]

A friend of mine retired last April and moved to Bangkok. He has been going there at least once per year for 10 years. He stay for 3-4 weeks each time. However, once he got there he realized that living there is different from visiting there. I also pointed out to him that it is hard to totally plan for post retirement. You really can't appreciated how different it is until you start doing it.

Martyp, I hope you friend is wise enough to be careful. When you talk about what sounds like an older, single guy, in Bangkok, Red Flags immediately are raised in my mind. I'm sure you know what those Red Flags are.

First, he cannot own property. He probably does not have a Residence Visa. He probably has a Thai girlfriend. All 3 of those things can become very serious problems. More older single men have ended up in some kind of trouble in Thailand than in pretty much any other country.

Re not being able to 'appreciate how different it is', you are absolutely right. There is an old saying which says, 'you can't see there from here'. When someone is working, they simply can't see as you say how different it will be when they retire. It's also not possible to explain it to them because they really can't 'see there from here'. So there is no point trying to explain it. They'll discover the differences soon enough once they retire.

 

[check6]

After I retired, I travelled for a year or so, stopped in France for a year or so and then ended up in Greece for 7 years. After Greece I moved to the UK (met and married my wife) and stayed for 6.5 years before moving with her to British Columbia.

OldPro, love your posts. Very informative. What did you like and not like about France and the UK?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

OldPro... Excellent Post, 1000% behind the rent b4 you buy rule. My only question is how do you cope with the weather in Canuck land? I am a Canadian, British & American Citizen, DW is US and Canadian. We lived in Calgary, Toronto, Denver, California and Now Florida. We have become real weather wimps.... As we get older, I think about selling up (Again) and moving to a foreign land. Van Isle, BC (Too Gloomy) Panama, Mexico.... still vacillating.

Healthcare being the real concern as I have 3 years to go till 65 and DW is only 57.

 

[haha]

The old saying, horses for courses fits this pretty well.

However, I think it is insufficiently emphasized that one must be very careful with frequent moves, or any moves with home ownership. We think stock trading introduces a lot of friction, but it is nothing compared to real estate turnover. Right off the fees and commissions to sell are ~10% in many markets in the US. I have no experience with foreign property sales, but general life experience teaches that it will likely cost the outlander much more. Home field advantage is real.

Not only that, except for true rolling stones, frequent moves are deeply stressful.

Ha

 

[martyp]

Martyp, I hope you friend is wise enough to be careful. When you talk about what sounds like an older, single guy, in Bangkok, Red Flags immediately are raised in my mind. I'm sure you know what those Red Flags are.

First, he cannot own property. He probably does not have a Residence Visa. He probably has a Thai girlfriend. All 3 of those things can become very serious problems. More older single men have ended up in some kind of trouble in Thailand than in pretty much any other country.

Re not being able to 'appreciate how different it is', you are absolutely right. There is an old saying which says, 'you can't see there from here'. When someone is working, they simply can't see as you say how different it will be when they retire. It's also not possible to explain it to them because they really can't 'see there from here'. So there is no point trying to explain it. They'll discover the differences soon enough once they retire.

He is renting right now. He doesn't even want to get into a 1 yr lease. He does have his retirement visa though. The girlfriends become more demanding the longer you stay there. He is "working" via Skype at his old software job. They've asked him to set up a office in India this year so he may become a nomad too.

 

[OldPro]

OldPro, love your posts. Very informative. What did you like and not like about France and the UK?

That's easy to ask but not so easy to answer perhaps. One of the reasons I think some people 'stick' and some don't is whether they well on what they don't like or not. I tend to dwell on what I like.

Having said that, in any foreign country, the bureaucracy is more difficult to deal with simply because you do not have a lifetime of experience doing so. If there is a language issue that obviously makes it even more difficult. Best to try and avoid it as much as possible. Renting helps with that. Bureaucracy is what I probably have found to be the most difficult thing to cope with.

Sometimes in Greece and in France, I found I had to remind myself what it was I liked about the place. In Greece I would ride my Vespa up into the hills to a little spot where I could sit on the hillside with a view across the island and down to the sea. I'd sit, light up my pipe(tobacco, not meth) and just look at the view. In France, I just had to go to the local café for breakfast. Drink my café au lait and dunk my croissant into it and all was well with my world once again.

In the UK, I moved there and got married. So it was a fairly different situation. My wife knew how everything worked so the bureaucracy was not a real problem for me there. I would say what I disliked most was the culture funnily enough. There is a negativity I saw in people there in many ways and as it was my birthplace, I wasn't happy to see that. Then of course there is the weather. Rain, rain, rain.

 

[OldPro]

The old saying, horses for courses fits this pretty well.

However, I think it is insufficiently emphasized that one must be very careful with frequent moves, or any moves with home ownership. We think stock trading introduces a lot of friction, but it is nothing compared to real estate turnover. Right off the fees and commissions to sell are ~10% in many markets in the US. I have no experience with foreign property sales, but general life experience teaches that it will likely cost the outlander much more. Home field advantage is real.

Not only that, except for true rolling stones, frequent moves are deeply stressful.

Ha

I would agree with that haha but I don't see anyone having suggested frequent moves and/or buying property. I tend to think in terms of years, not weeks. So depending on how you define 'frequent', I don't see an issue. I would also suggest to you that the more you move, the less stressful it becomes simply due to experience.

 

[OldPro]

OldPro... Excellent Post, 1000% behind the rent b4 you buy rule. My only question is how do you cope with the weather in Canuck land? I am a Canadian, British & American Citizen, DW is US and Canadian. We lived in Calgary, Toronto, Denver, California and Now Florida. We have become real weather wimps.... As we get older, I think about selling up (Again) and moving to a foreign land. Van Isle, BC (Too Gloomy) Panama, Mexico.... still vacillating.

Healthcare being the real concern as I have 3 years to go till 65 and DW is only 57.

Re weather, you need to get out a bit more ShokWaveRider. We live in the 'banana belt'. What, you didn't know Canada had a banana belt? We used to live in the desert. What, you didn't know Canada has a desert region?

The south end of the Okanagan Valley in BC, is the northern limit of the Greater Colorado Desert. It has the warmest, driest climate in Canada. Prickly Pear cactus and rattlesnakes. What more could anyone want.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=okan...X&ved=0ahUKEwiKuriBlbbKAhUluoMKHbdxApMQsAQIGg

The banana belt region of Southwestern Ontario is Carolinian forest country.
https://caroliniancanada.ca/legacy/FactSheets_CCUniqueness.htm Point Pelee just down the road from us is at the same latitude (42 degrees) as the northern border of California as well as Madrid and Rome. How far south do you have to get?

On the other hand I remember being in Ocala, Florida one Xmas and waking up to snow. They lost most of the citrus crop that year. Come to think of it, isn't that a somewhat regular occurrence anywhere north of Miami? Not all of Florida is warm in winter. Not all of Canada is buried under 3 feet of snow in winter either.

Healthcare of course is second to none in terms of quality and cost.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re weather, you need to get out a bit more ShokWaveRider. We live in the 'banana belt'. What, you didn't know Canada had a banana belt? We used to live in the desert. What, you didn't know Canada has a desert region?

Healthcare of course is second to none in terms of quality and cost.

OldPro:

We do get out a little... Average frost free days in the Okanagan desert (Osoyoos area) are around ~180, we have family & Friends in Kelowna & Peachland. As far as the Carolinian is concerned, we lived there and also have friends and family dotted over the region.

No offense, but I think you (and Canadians) are being a little optimistic quoting Bananas, very wishful thinking. They may call it the banana belt, but I never saw one growing outside while I was living and visiting, and their frost free estimate is ~150 days.

Our frost free days where we live in NE FLA are conservatively >325 and I err on the low side purposely. We have 4 producing banana plants in out back yard, not to mention the Papaya, that admittedly is not the best specimen, but does offer fruit occasionally. We have been here for 12 years and never seen snow.

All that said, our criteria does include having a salt water beach within 1 or 2 miles from our home.

Health Care is a different story. Not so much the health CARE itself, the quality that is, is outstanding, and we have had Canadian, and EU previously.

It is the funding of it I find tedious. Perhaps Medicare will be better, but I doubt it.

Out of all HC systems I agree Canada has the best overall compromise, IF you can, as a new returning home Canadian, find a doctor accepting new patients, and you do not want to see a specialist in any great hurry. If you are happy with walk in clinics then yes all is good.

Unfortunately Canada fails on the weather front and salt water front, unless we consider Van. isle. (Gloomy for half the year) We have family there too.

I hate to get off topic as I really think your OP was a really good insight to those looking to move about. We have lived by the same mantra in all our moves.

 

[kcowan]

When my late wife & I sold our place in B.C. and, (by her choice), went fulltime Rv'ing, we unloaded pretty much everything, except our 'treasures' which we stored.

After she died, and I was in Ontario, I had the stuff shipped to her mom's......going through it, (except for a few items), I thought "Why on earth did we keep this crap?"

I hear ya.

Yes we did it both in Richmond BC (MIL since 1976) and Toronto ON (Bro since 1937). In one case the attic and the other the basement. Fortunately we never paid to store anything. But 1-800-Got-Junk had a good contract from us. Both places took 4 days because of furnishings and art.

 

[kcowan]

Unfortunately Canada fails on the weather front and salt water front, unless we consider Van. isle. (Gloomy for half the year) We have family there too.

I hate to get off topic as I really think your OP was a really good insight to those looking to move about. We have lived by the same mantra in all our moves.

Yes we live in Wet Vancouver and were OK while working but once retired, we decided to escape the gloomy gray "mild" weather for 5+ months. We tried Florida twice and each of Phoenix, San Diego and Palm Springs once. Ironically, we found San Diego (La Jolla) to be gloomy much of the year even though warmer. That marine layer is a killer.

 

[OldPro]

Weather as a sub-topic under 'where to retire' will all depend on the individuals interests. Year round warmer weather will obviously not be what someone who likes skiing/snowmobiling/etc. weather wants to hear about. People retire to Alaska just because they like the outdoors and hunting for example.

What can be of interest to people looking to retire somewhere warmer though, is an understanding of what warm weather can mean in different places. What I mean is, people who are interested in retiring to a warmer climate, may not realize the difference humidity can make in the place they think will be their 'retirement paradise'.

A good example is SEA and Thailand which is a popular place for retirement. The humidity is incredible there most of the year. But the average person considering it as a location to retire, may not see past the 'warmer weather'.

If you retire to say Malaysia, you will find that you probably go out to shop only very early in the morning or late in the evening. If you go out after 9am, you will walk about 1 block before your shirt is sticking to your back. Warm yes, comfortable no.

So as a general comment under the topic of 'where to retire to', it makes sense to add that if you want warmer weather, make sure the locations you consider while warm, are not so humid that it will be a problem for you. Humidity is much more important than temperature in terms of what feels comfortable.

 

[Nemo2]

Humidity is much more important than temperature in terms of what feels comfortable.

Back when......we used to run in Riyadh (dry) year round, (albeit at 05:00 a.m.), regardless of the temps.....joined one day by a guy on our project who was stationed in Jiddah, (on the Red Sea and extremely humid).....he said that in the summer in Jiddah you could run a mile..period.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Climate, as noted is personal preference/Tolerance. I agree high humidity can get to you after a few weeks of it. We were a lot more bothered by it when we first moved to NE FLA 12 years ago. Now we are used to it (I think). We like to say we are at least. But over all we prefer living by the beach, with no snow, LOTS of sunshine and mild winters, (We can go to Colorado if we want good skiing). Living by the beach reduces humidity and the constant breezes help.

Our list is sort of like this, although the order does change:

1. A Lot more sun than cloud and rain.
2. No snow in winter
3. Salt Water Beach, VERY Close.....(Not so much for the beach itself, there is just something about living in a beach town. Hard to explain) This stems from spending 3 years boating in the Caribbean, go figure.
4. Top Notch Health Care, with no/little waiting for specialists, MRI, CT etc., even if the Insurance company based payment system is sad. (I have a Pacemaker)
5. NOT a Big City
6. Reasonably priced housing
7. Average Taxes
8. Reasonably priced good quality food
9. Low crime rate
10. All else is noise really

The last few items are not really in order just came to mind...... Makes me wonder what YOUR lists are like? We do not work so job availability does not even appear on ours.

 

[OldPro]

I personally have few 'must haves' ShokWaveRider. I'm pretty tolerant and adaptable to most things. Weather for example isn't really a biggy for me. If I can't go to a beach, I can walk in the fall leaves. Have you ever hiked through a maple forest in Ontario or New England in the autumn? https://www.google.ca/search?q=onta...2F2LjKAhXkg4MKHUZiDZMQsAQIGw&biw=1051&bih=501

Just as you can visit Colorado to ski, I can visit a good beach to swim. Everywhere has its pluses and minuses and for me weather is not a huge factor simply because different weather offers different choices of things to enjoy. The only real weather downer I consider is rain. Warm, cold, dry(desert), all have things of interest to me but in the rain, there sure ain't much you can do. So Vancouver, Canada or Portland, Oregon are not gonna make my list.

I do have one 'must' or more accurately, 'must not have'. As a rule of thumb, I am not interested in anywhere where most of the houses have bars on the windows to keep crime out. The places that eliminates may surprise some people. Costa Rica or S. Africa for example which are fairly popular for retirement. It also of course eliminates some areas in some N. American cities. I consider it a pretty good rule of thumb.

I always remember a couple I met in Tahiti who lived in Beverly Hills and who told me in conversation that they had 'intruder drills' with their son, just like I might have had 'fire escape drills' with my two sons when they were younger.

The Father told the son who had his own downstairs bedroom/studio apartment, that if the alarm went off, he was to run immediately upstairs where Father would be waiting at the top. The first person up got a pass and the second person up was going to get a bullet. He wasn't kidding. Did you ever ask yourself why pretty much every house in Beverly Hills has a security company sign out front warning of 'Armed Response'? That doesn't sound like somewhere I want to live either.

 

[Ronstar]

...... Makes me wonder what YOUR lists are like? ....

My list

1. Sunny, warm, low humidity - mild winters
2. Access to great hiking, biking, and running routes
3. Kayak lakes/rivers nearby
4. Interesting places nearby to photograph
5. Something resembling a wilderness within 0.5 hr
6. Minimal traffic, crowds
7. Grocery/home improvement stores within 0.5 hr
8. Big city/shopping(DW)/airport within 1-1.5 hrs
9. Reasonably priced housing
10. Ability to have workshop on property
11. Low real estate taxes
12. Low crime rate

Unfortunately, I haven't found a single place that meets all of these criteria.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Katsmeow]

Or, some of us who moved a lot when we were younger are really thrilled at being able to finally "set down roots". At least I am. I have lived in Louisiana for 20 years by now, and love the fledgling roots that have begun to sprout.

That reminds me of my husband. His dad was in the Navy. DH was born in the Philippine Islands soon after WWI. He moved a lot in his childhood, but lived in some pretty cool places including Hawaii and San Diego. I think that is one reason that every time we move he wants it to be the forever home. But, it often hasn't been because needs change over time.

I, on the other hand, never moved during childhood. In fact, my mom is in her 90s and is still in that same house after almost 60 years there. When I went away to school I was ecstatic just to be somewhere else.

Moving literally doesn't bother me at all. I don't love traveling actually (pets), but selling our house and buying a new one if needs change is totally OK with me (yes, you need to stay long enough to make it OK financially). So from my standpoint, I always have a next attitude. I don't move somewhere with the intent of moving. I'm fine staying if my needs stay the same. But, if something changes it doesn't bother me at all to move.

 

[OldPro]

You have no idea Katsmeow how difficult it is to get some people to understand that 'needs change' even after retirement. So many seem to think they can 'plan' their retirement. I've yet to meet anyone who 'planned' everything that ever changed in their life up until retirement. But I've met many who think they can do so after retirement.

All any of us can hope to do at any age is MAYBE have a year go as planned. Beyond that at any age, it's all just guesswork and subject to change. Like the Yiddish saying goes, 'man plans and God laughs.' Personally, I like the Greek take on the same thing.

A shrug of the shoulders and the phrase, 'tina kana may'(written phonetically). It more or less translates as, 'what can I do' but it means, 'it's in the hands of the Gods.'

 

[DrRoy]

Has anyone tried Findyourspot.com? You answer a quiz and it gives you 2 dozen places to consider. I thought it did a descent job of matching to locations.

 

[travelover]

Has anyone tried Findyourspot.com? You answer a quiz and it gives you 2 dozen places to consider. I thought it did a descent job of matching to locations.

Before you click through this site's 20 pages, be forewarned that it requires you to provide a bunch of personal information before it coughs up a recommendation.