$15 dollar fast food wages

[MichaelB]

Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.

 

[purplesky]

Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.

So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.

 

[steelyman]

Not long after I joined, I wrote something that could have been taken as a bit rude. Someone tactfully pointed that out and an apology (from me) was in order.

 

[dallas27]

Maybe it's all our fault. We want appreciation and our dividends. Companies have to cut training costs. Lower labor costs. Stop funding pensions, because this quarters EPS is more important than their long term success or the employees. Government then gives them tax welfare. All to pay off the shareholders. But now we have low paid, untrained, no retirement sections of the economy, competing with outsourcing. Oh, and their poor, so their schools dont have as much cash as the nicer areas where "hard workers" live.


Hey, but i get mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[MichaelB]

So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.

My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.

I would suggest you reread this post and give it careful consideration. E-R Forum members live and work around the world and do not have a sole US-centric view of issues. This topic [-]can be[/-] must be discussed with respect to other participants and points of view.

 

[Rustward]

What ever happened to working harder, doing an outstanding job, taking more responsibility, and getting promoted to get a raise?

I don't understand this "We are worth $$ so pay up or we'll shut you down" stuff.

 

[Rustic23]

Sure, express your views, give facts and figures, defend your position, but don't call other member names such as 'anti-american', fighting words from where I come from! And, just because I don't agree with you in that the government should say how much or little a worker should get, does not make me anti worker or anti American any more than your views make you pro-american! In fact I will guess that there are more than a few that believe your views are just the opposite. However it does not further the discussion to call names or insult your fellow posters.

 

[BTravlin]

So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.

ERD50 and I are mostly in agreement on this issue and I don't believe that he or I don't care about low wage workers, we just don't agree that wage price fixing is the answer.

Protectionism does not work and leads to both trade wars and actual wars. Who fights the actual wars? By and large it's mostly the lower class. I'd like to see all of our citizens advance but that will mean more education, more training, better work ethic, etc.

 

[steelyman]

I've been "moderated" three times in three years. That's probably more often than Joan Rivers had sex (if you believe her).

The first time it was me asking to have a botched attempt at a poll deleted, the second one was when someone was driving me crazy with their posts and I decided to slap them down, the third is when I unwittingly posted a "naked link" (a web link with no summary or explanation).

 

[Redbugdave]

I moved to get better jobs or get promoted. You have to do what you have to do if you want to get ahead.

 

[purplesky]

My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.

I would suggest you reread this post and give it careful consideration. E-R Forum members live and work around the world and do not have a sole US-centric view of issues. This topic [-]can be[/-] must be discussed with respect to other participants and points of view.

That was my whole point.

He and many people dont view our economy U.S. centric. I do.

I am rooting for the American worker. I am rooting for the American economy.

Maybe because its my home team and our future depends on it ?

If a individual roots against America or its workers and favors cheap foreign labor to make a buck and hurt my country or choose to not pay a living wage to low income workers than they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.

It seems pretty simple and straightforward.

Yes its a global economy forever but its time to look out for number 1 again. America needs to come first.

I will review the rules.

 

[purplesky]

I moved to get better jobs or get promoted. You have to do what you have to do if you want to get ahead.

I wish I could transfer. I would move tomorrow.

 

[BTravlin]

That was my whole point.

He and many people dont view our economy U.S. centric. I do.

I am rooting for the American worker. I am rooting for the American economy.

Maybe because its my home team and our future depends on it ?

If a individual roots against America or its workers and favors cheap foreign labor to make a buck and hurt my country or choose to not pay a living wage to low income workers than they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.

It seems pretty simple and straightforward.

Yes its a global economy forever but its time to look out for number 1 again. America needs to come first.

I will review the rules.

Just because I don't think setting higher minimum wages is the answer or that protectionism in international trade will work does not mean that I'm anti-American worker. I can root for America yet still see the handwriting on the wall, but maybe you can't.

 

[purplesky]

ERD50 and I are mostly in agreement on this issue and I don't believe that he or I don't care about low wage workers, we just don't agree that wage price fixing is the answer.

Protectionism does not work and leads to both trade wars and actual wars. Who fights the actual wars? By and large it's mostly the lower class. I'd like to see all of our citizens advance but that will mean more education, more training, better work ethic, etc.

You guys have every right to this view and you might be correct.

But I would say after 30 years of Americans not getting a wage increase(actually pay cuts) and losing pensions and paying for healthcare something has to give?

People always mention more education but I just saw another story on the national news about how college grads are working more jobs that don't even require a college degree these days.

College grads are just getting outsourced and lets face it. Corporate America just isn't hiring?

The majority of new jobs being created are now low wage type jobs that are being filled by many college grads.

So why not $15hr for minimum wage? This goes way beyond fast food workers.

 

[purplesky]

Just because I don't think setting higher minimum wages is the answer or that protectionism in international trade will work does not mean that I'm anti-American worker. I can root for America yet still see the handwriting on the wall, but maybe you can't.

No I get it. Thats clear.

Corporate America uses protectionism where and when it benefits them? Right?

But American workers don't? Why?

Because there is no balance in our economy? Get it?

Corporate America uses protectionism in America in the Right to work states keeping wages really low. Get it?

Thats the writing on the wall. See it?

 

[Gumby]

ERD50 has a elitists view . . .

. . .they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.

Imagine, if you will, that you are at a cocktail party with a number of intelligent, interesting people from all around the world. They have a wide variety of backgrounds, including different educations, different occupations, etc. At the party, you start discussing economic issues with some of the others. Everyone approaches the topic from a different perspective, reflecting their own history and interests.

You might disagree with certain other guests at the party. You might explain why from your point of view, given your particular concerns, things should be done one way and not another. They might explain things from their own points of view. You and another guest may never be able to reconcile your views. But I suspect that regardless of this gap, you would find a way to be polite to that person. After all, you would like to be a good guest at the party. So you would be unlikely to call a Canadian, say, anti-American merely because from her point of view, things should be done in a way that is more favorable to Canada than the US. Nor would you rudely call someone an elitist directly to their face. You would understand that they come from a different place, with a different outlook and just disagree with your position. You may never become fast friends with them due to these differences, but surely you would find a way to be cordial.

So why behave differently here?

 

[purplesky]

Maybe it's all our fault. We want appreciation and our dividends. Companies have to cut training costs. Lower labor costs. Stop funding pensions, because this quarters EPS is more important than their long term success or the employees. Government then gives them tax welfare. All to pay off the shareholders. But now we have low paid, untrained, no retirement sections of the economy, competing with outsourcing. Oh, and their poor, so their schools dont have as much cash as the nicer areas where "hard workers" live.


Hey, but i get mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Yes its all been done behind the mask of shareholder value?

My 401k and Roth and brokerage accounts have all done so well in the last 4 to 5 years but I just don't feel that great about it?

I have worked hard and lived below my means but knowing so many Americans have been left out of this recovery really bothers me.

Wish I didn't care.

 

[purplesky]

Imagine, if you will, that you are at a cocktail party with a number of intelligent, interesting people from all around the world. They have a wide variety of backgrounds, including different educations, different occupations, etc. At the party, you start discussing economic issues with some of the others. Everyone approaches the topic from a different perspective, reflecting their own history and interests.

You might disagree with certain other guests at the party. You might explain why from your point of view, given your particular concerns, things should be done one way and not another. They might explain things from their own points of view. You and another guest may never be able to reconcile your views. But I suspect that regardless of this gap, you would find a way to be polite to that person. After all, you would like to be a good guest at the party. So you would be unlikely to call a Canadian, say, anti-American merely because from her point of view, things should be done in a way that is more favorable to Canada than the US. Nor would you rudely call someone an elitist directly to their face. You would understand that they come from a different place, with a different outlook and just disagree with your position. You may never become fast friends with them due to these differences, but surely you would find a way to be cordial.

So why behave differently here?

Ok let me say I am TRULY sorry.

When I said anti american I didn't mean literally. I just meant from a economic perspective?

I would imagine citizens worldwide root for their own countries and citizens as well? I am a global investor and I work for a global company but I feel strongly about rebuilding our outsourced middle-class .

The way things are going I will probably be banned from this website and I will just go back to lurking.

 

[purplesky]

Not long after I joined, I wrote something that could have been taken as a bit rude. Someone tactfully pointed that out and an apology (from me) was in order.

I am sorry. Yes I am kind of an idiot.

I probably should stop posting.

 

[Walt34]

I have worked hard and lived below my means but knowing so many Americans have been left out of this recovery really bothers me.

Wish I didn't care.

I have done those things too (LBYM) and I also care if for no other reason that I live here too.

But the world is not a static place. Things move, circumstances change, and one of the great things about human beings as a species they are, if nothing else, adaptable to changing circumstances. That evolutionary adaptation (the ability to adapt) is what put them at the top of the food chain.

Recommended reading: Who Moved My Cheese?

And those who refuse to adapt or expect things to stay the same, will be left behind. That is evolution, harsh as it is. Some are dramatic, and those win the infamous and sometimes humorous (but sadly, fictional) Darwin Award.

So when a factory moves toward further automation in order to compete in a worldwide market the workers there have two choices. They can find other work or they can adapt and learn to work with, service and repair those machines that do their former jobs faster/better/cheaper than they do.

Given the advances in robotics it isn't hard to visualize a world in which janitorial jobs are extinct just like elevator operators, completely taken over by machines. That's not being anti-American or anti-worker.

It is simply facing the gritty reality that the world and the marketplace and the employment market change, evolve and adapt, just as they always have and hopefully always will.

 

[brewer12345]

Imagine, if you will, that you are at a cocktail party with a number of intelligent, interesting people from all around the world. They have a wide variety of backgrounds, including different educations, different occupations, etc. At the party, you start discussing economic issues with some of the others. Everyone approaches the topic from a different perspective, reflecting their own history and interests.

You might disagree with certain other guests at the party. You might explain why from your point of view, given your particular concerns, things should be done one way and not another. They might explain things from their own points of view. You and another guest may never be able to reconcile your views. But I suspect that regardless of this gap, you would find a way to be polite to that person. After all, you would like to be a good guest at the party. So you would be unlikely to call a Canadian, say, anti-American merely because from her point of view, things should be done in a way that is more favorable to Canada than the US. Nor would you rudely call someone an elitist directly to their face. You would understand that they come from a different place, with a different outlook and just disagree with your position. You may never become fast friends with them due to these differences, but surely you would find a way to be cordial.

So why behave differently here?

And since the caviar served with the cocktails did not agree with me, I am about to pass some lethal gas next to the loudest, rudest party guest. Still want to throw canapés?

 

[BTravlin]

No I get it. Thats clear.

Corporate America uses protectionism where and when it benefits them? Right?

But American workers don't? Why?

Because there is no balance in our economy? Get it?

Corporate America uses protectionism in America in the Right to work states keeping wages really low. Get it?

Thats the writing on the wall. See it?

Yes, Corporate America will use any and all leverage at it's disposal and some of Corporate America is run by greedy SOB's who care about no one but themselves. Other parts of Corporate America strive to do well while doing well by both their customers and their employees, take Costco for example. That doesn't change the fact that they have to compete on a global level now and lower class workers are also competing on that global level. Setting a higher minimum wage won't change that fact. Education will. And I should have said better education earlier rather than "more education."

You want to earn more? You have to work harder, better, smarter and be more productive. The U.S. either does that as a country or it will be left in somebody else's dust no matter how high the minimum wage is.

You keep referencing Corporate America but times are changing and corporations know no boundaries and have no real allegiance except to the next quarter's numbers.

 

[purplesky]

I have done those things too (LBYM) and I also care if for no other reason that I live here too.

But the world is not a static place. Things move, circumstances change, and one of the great things about human beings as a species they are, if nothing else, adaptable to changing circumstances. That evolutionary adaptation (the ability to adapt) is what put them at the top of the food chain.

Recommended reading: Who Moved My Cheese?

And those who refuse to adapt or expect things to stay the same, will be left behind. That is evolution, harsh as it is. Some are dramatic, and those win the infamous and sometimes humorous (but sadly, fictional) Darwin Award.

So when a factory moves toward further automation in order to compete in a worldwide market the workers there have two choices. They can find other work or they can adapt and learn to work with, service and repair those machines that do their former jobs faster/better/cheaper than they do.

Given the advances in robotics it isn't hard to visualize a world in which janitorial jobs are extinct just like elevator operators, completely taken over by machines. That's not being anti-American or anti-worker.

It is simply facing the gritty reality that the world and the marketplace and the employment market change, evolve and adapt, just as they always have and hopefully always will.

That is a great post. Thanks.

 

[dallas27]

What ever happened to working harder, doing an outstanding job, taking more responsibility, and getting promoted to get a raise?



I don't understand this "We are worth $$ so pay up or we'll shut you down" stuff.

Companies for the most part today dont promote and hand out raises. Staying at the same company today often means something is wrong with you that no one else has poached you. At least in tech, thats true.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[purplesky]

Yes, Corporate America will use any and all leverage at it's disposal and some of Corporate America is run by greedy SOB's who care about no one but themselves. Other parts of Corporate America strive to do well while doing well by both their customers and their employees, take Costco for example. That doesn't change the fact that they have to compete on a global level now and lower class workers are also competing on that global level. Setting a higher minimum wage won't change that fact. Education will. And I should have said better education earlier rather than "more education."

You want to earn more? You have to work harder, better, smarter and be more productive. The U.S. either does that as a country or it will be left in somebody else's dust no matter how high the minimum wage is.

You keep referencing Corporate America but times are changing and corporations know no boundaries and have no real allegiance except to the next quarter's numbers.

I shop at costco and I agree they are a great company.

I agree about education but it seems like we are over educating some of our youth.
Not sure if a college degree works for some people considering the costs of a college degree? There should be educational alternatives for some people who don't belong in college.

Yes corporate America doesn't know borders and is using the world as it sees fit.
As a shareholder I would love to see some balance between employees and shareholders both getting rewarded?

If minimum wage goes to $15 I think it would be great and we would see a immediate jolt to the economy.
But if not than so be it. It does seem like there is some societal pressure to raise it voluntarily?

The way the world is going we will probably see a global minimum wage of some type in our lifetimes.

I have to be honest sometimes when I buy fast-food I almost feel guilty buying off the dollar menu because its so cheap and I make a great income. Sad I know. But I am so into living below my means I can't help it.