Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.
Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.
My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?
He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.
I do care. I am not sorry for that.
So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?
He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.
I do care. I am not sorry for that.
My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.
I would suggest you reread this post and give it careful consideration. E-R Forum members live and work around the world and do not have a sole US-centric view of issues. This topic [-]can be[/-] must be discussed with respect to other participants and points of view.
I moved to get better jobs or get promoted. You have to do what you have to do if you want to get ahead.
That was my whole point.
He and many people dont view our economy U.S. centric. I do.
I am rooting for the American worker. I am rooting for the American economy.
Maybe because its my home team and our future depends on it ?
If a individual roots against America or its workers and favors cheap foreign labor to make a buck and hurt my country or choose to not pay a living wage to low income workers than they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.
It seems pretty simple and straightforward.
Yes its a global economy forever but its time to look out for number 1 again. America needs to come first.
I will review the rules.
ERD50 and I are mostly in agreement on this issue and I don't believe that he or I don't care about low wage workers, we just don't agree that wage price fixing is the answer.
Protectionism does not work and leads to both trade wars and actual wars. Who fights the actual wars? By and large it's mostly the lower class. I'd like to see all of our citizens advance but that will mean more education, more training, better work ethic, etc.
Just because I don't think setting higher minimum wages is the answer or that protectionism in international trade will work does not mean that I'm anti-American worker. I can root for America yet still see the handwriting on the wall, but maybe you can't.
ERD50 has a elitists view . . .
. . .they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.
Maybe it's all our fault. We want appreciation and our dividends. Companies have to cut training costs. Lower labor costs. Stop funding pensions, because this quarters EPS is more important than their long term success or the employees. Government then gives them tax welfare. All to pay off the shareholders. But now we have low paid, untrained, no retirement sections of the economy, competing with outsourcing. Oh, and their poor, so their schools dont have as much cash as the nicer areas where "hard workers" live.
Hey, but i get mine.
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Imagine, if you will, that you are at a cocktail party with a number of intelligent, interesting people from all around the world. They have a wide variety of backgrounds, including different educations, different occupations, etc. At the party, you start discussing economic issues with some of the others. Everyone approaches the topic from a different perspective, reflecting their own history and interests.
You might disagree with certain other guests at the party. You might explain why from your point of view, given your particular concerns, things should be done one way and not another. They might explain things from their own points of view. You and another guest may never be able to reconcile your views. But I suspect that regardless of this gap, you would find a way to be polite to that person. After all, you would like to be a good guest at the party. So you would be unlikely to call a Canadian, say, anti-American merely because from her point of view, things should be done in a way that is more favorable to Canada than the US. Nor would you rudely call someone an elitist directly to their face. You would understand that they come from a different place, with a different outlook and just disagree with your position. You may never become fast friends with them due to these differences, but surely you would find a way to be cordial.
So why behave differently here?
Not long after I joined, I wrote something that could have been taken as a bit rude. Someone tactfully pointed that out and an apology (from me) was in order.
I have worked hard and lived below my means but knowing so many Americans have been left out of this recovery really bothers me.
Wish I didn't care.
Imagine, if you will, that you are at a cocktail party with a number of intelligent, interesting people from all around the world. They have a wide variety of backgrounds, including different educations, different occupations, etc. At the party, you start discussing economic issues with some of the others. Everyone approaches the topic from a different perspective, reflecting their own history and interests.
You might disagree with certain other guests at the party. You might explain why from your point of view, given your particular concerns, things should be done one way and not another. They might explain things from their own points of view. You and another guest may never be able to reconcile your views. But I suspect that regardless of this gap, you would find a way to be polite to that person. After all, you would like to be a good guest at the party. So you would be unlikely to call a Canadian, say, anti-American merely because from her point of view, things should be done in a way that is more favorable to Canada than the US. Nor would you rudely call someone an elitist directly to their face. You would understand that they come from a different place, with a different outlook and just disagree with your position. You may never become fast friends with them due to these differences, but surely you would find a way to be cordial.
So why behave differently here?
No I get it. Thats clear.
Corporate America uses protectionism where and when it benefits them? Right?
But American workers don't? Why?
Because there is no balance in our economy? Get it?
Corporate America uses protectionism in America in the Right to work states keeping wages really low. Get it?
Thats the writing on the wall. See it?
I have done those things too (LBYM) and I also care if for no other reason that I live here too.
But the world is not a static place. Things move, circumstances change, and one of the great things about human beings as a species they are, if nothing else, adaptable to changing circumstances. That evolutionary adaptation (the ability to adapt) is what put them at the top of the food chain.
Recommended reading: Who Moved My Cheese?
And those who refuse to adapt or expect things to stay the same, will be left behind. That is evolution, harsh as it is. Some are dramatic, and those win the infamous and sometimes humorous (but sadly, fictional) Darwin Award.
So when a factory moves toward further automation in order to compete in a worldwide market the workers there have two choices. They can find other work or they can adapt and learn to work with, service and repair those machines that do their former jobs faster/better/cheaper than they do.
Given the advances in robotics it isn't hard to visualize a world in which janitorial jobs are extinct just like elevator operators, completely taken over by machines. That's not being anti-American or anti-worker.
It is simply facing the gritty reality that the world and the marketplace and the employment market change, evolve and adapt, just as they always have and hopefully always will.
What ever happened to working harder, doing an outstanding job, taking more responsibility, and getting promoted to get a raise?
I don't understand this "We are worth $$ so pay up or we'll shut you down" stuff.
Yes, Corporate America will use any and all leverage at it's disposal and some of Corporate America is run by greedy SOB's who care about no one but themselves. Other parts of Corporate America strive to do well while doing well by both their customers and their employees, take Costco for example. That doesn't change the fact that they have to compete on a global level now and lower class workers are also competing on that global level. Setting a higher minimum wage won't change that fact. Education will. And I should have said better education earlier rather than "more education."
You want to earn more? You have to work harder, better, smarter and be more productive. The U.S. either does that as a country or it will be left in somebody else's dust no matter how high the minimum wage is.
You keep referencing Corporate America but times are changing and corporations know no boundaries and have no real allegiance except to the next quarter's numbers.