2 NFL Players Gave Up Hope

[dex]

FOXNews.com - Florida Boat Accident Survivor: 2 NFL Players Gave Up Hope - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News
But two to four hours after the boat capsized, one of the NFL players removed his life jacket and let himself be swept out to sea, the St. Petersburg Times reported. A few hours later, the other one followed suit.
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After Cooper, 26, and Corey Smith, 29, were carried away, Bleakley and Schuyler hung on until morning — but then Bleakley decided to swim to get help when he thought he saw a distant light, the paper said.
He, too, took his life vest off, 24-year-old Schuyler told the families.
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This is an interesting story from several angles.
First, the general guideline in a survival situation like this, car stuck in a snow drift in winter, plane crash in the tundra is to stay where you are.


Second, I think is the time frame that the first two took off their life jacket and gave up. I think that is a factor of today's society - we expect everything to happen quickly - like a TV cop show. Has anyone see that old movie LIFEBOAT - good movie.



Third - Bleakley - thinking he could swim miles to help - just foolish.


Schuyler, the survivor is an instructor at L.A. Fitness.
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There are a lot of lessons here.
Know your limitations
- they went too far out in that size boat
- know your personal limitations - Bleakley didn't

Have patience.
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I'm guessing we could also use this as an analogy for the stock market and retirement and other things in life.

 

[ls99]

Unlike in a game, there are no time outs in war or survival situations.
No referee.
Score is kept by who survives.

If it is true that they removed their life vests, there is no more to be said for them.

 

[ziggy29]

But two to four hours after the boat capsized, one of the NFL players removed his life jacket and let himself be swept out to sea, the St. Petersburg Times reported. A few hours later, the other one followed suit.

That's sad -- the ultimate capitulation.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Terrible tragedy, getting lots of press in these parts.

Apparently they knew that dangerous weather was on its way later in the day; experienced captains apparently handle that by designating a "go home" time by the clock with plenty of margin. In this case, the young men decided not to pick a time, but rather to "keep an eye" on sea and weather conditions and head home when it started to look threatening.

The seas picked up very quickly and they never even got the anchor up before the boat was swamped.

 

[freebird5825]

I am an avid inland waters boater with 25 years experience (both power and sail) as well as formal US Power Squadron training in weather, marine communications, and boating safety.
I just read the story and am shaking my head. This is no time to be throwing stones, but the actions taken by these 4 young men constitute making every mistake in the book. Life vests are only part of the story.
A pre-cruise weather check online at NOAA to make the GO-NO GO decision, a simple EPIRB device clipped directly inside each of their lifevests, or a cruise plan (destination, planned return time) filed with the marina or Coast Guard, could have changed this outcome to a successful rescue.

 

[Gpond]

After about a dozen hours of being in salt water your skin starts to burn very badly. Throw in 12 hours of direct sunlight and you got a misery index off the scale.

They probably took off their life vest because it was rubbing their skin off.

 

[eridanus]

Or they ingested salt water and their thinking became impaired.

2-4 hours doesn't seem that that long to wait, especially with others.

 

[REWahoo]

Or they ingested salt water and their thinking became impaired.

2-4 hours doesn't seem that that long to wait, especially with others.

Salt water or no, a survival situation can impair thinking quickly and dramatically.

A significant portion of the survival training courses taught by the military and others focuses on the mental aspect of survival. No matter how strong, how physically fit you are, you are unlikely to survive if you don't think you can...

 

[youbet]

Or they ingested salt water and their thinking became impaired.

I agree with that. I'm not used to salt water and was doing some snorkeling off a boat in Hawaii a few years ago..... whether it was from the mouthpiece of the snorkel or whatever, I ingested enough salt water to really make me super nauseous. DW reports that as I lay on the deck of the pitching catamaran, I asked her to give my love to the kids/grandkids and kindly shoot me.

For lots of folks, agressive rocking and pitching motion coupled with salt water ingestion are not a good thing! Probably harder to cope with than good ole, straight forward pain.

 

[TromboneAl]

...then Bleakley decided to swim to get help when he thought he saw a distant light, the paper said.

Perhaps foolish. But the story could have ended that Bleakley swam three miles to shore and got help. When the helicopter arrived at the boat, the remaining man was dead from hypothermia.

Open Water was a good movie.

CDNN :: The True Story Behind Disturbing Open Water Movie

 

[RustyShackleford]

It's tough to second guess these guys, like folks have said, who knows
how they were suffering. Still, too bad they didn't take the platitudes
they've heard all their lives about "quitters never winning" more to heart.

Kinda off the subject, but a great book about water survival situations is
"The Perfect Storm". Far different than the lame-ass movie.

 

[calmloki]

*Alert*


*Insensitive uncaring rude statement from non-sports follower follows*



Check the survivors stool - i betcha he kilt 'n et them. Got past dinner time.....

 

[Leonidas]

Something about people, or modern life, or whatever makes potentially dangerous pursuits seem less hazardous than they really are. I've been kicking around the idea of learning how to fly for the last couple of years and doing a lot of reading on the subject. There's a lot of discussion about pilots who completely misunderstand the potential dangers of things like darkness and hazardous weather. I like what Phillip Greenspun wrote about why the average private pilot shouldn't try to fly according to a schedule, as opposed to "we'll get there Tuesday, or maybe Wednesday, or maybe Thursday". It makes people fly when they really shouldn't. Like JFK junior. Or the local family here that didn't make it past the mountains in Colorado because the husband wanted to leave to make a business meeting back home. They got caught by a weather system that was unusual for that time of the year, but was identified and its existence was published to pilots in the weather report.

Maybe it's a survivalist attitude, or experience from what I did when w*rking, but I tend to approach things based on "what can go wrong?", and work towards the happier ending while being prepared for the unhappy one.

All I know about boating is that the water is a dangerous place to be when the weather turns. I always ask about the location of life jackets when I get on board a boat. Of course I'm the guy who can't sit in a public place until I've identified all of the emergency exits.

 

[REWahoo]

I've been kicking around the idea of learning how to fly for the last couple of years and doing a lot of reading on the subject. There's a lot of discussion about pilots who completely misunderstand the potential dangers of things like darkness and hazardous weather. I like what Phillip Greenspun wrote about why the average private pilot shouldn't try to fly according to a schedule, as opposed to "we'll get there Tuesday, or maybe Wednesday, or maybe Thursday". It makes people fly when they really shouldn't. Like JFK junior. .

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."

 

[Cattusbabe]

All due respects but........ The story is being told by the lone surviver who was plucked out of those same waters after 40 some hours. Is his story the truth or was he impaired after this traumatizing experience? Salt water. Hypothermia. For over 40 hours. Can you really expect him to be 100% clear in what he remembers? I would not be so quick to jump on his story as gospel.

 

[ls99]

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."

The Alaskan bush pilots are real good example. Used to fly with an old pilot 70 plus. In a supercub.

He never competed with the younger ones, never gave a schedule. Used to say come down to the airport around xx then we'll see. If you in a hurry find someone else.

 

[freebird5825]

...All I know about boating is that the water is a dangerous place to be when the weather turns. I always ask about the location of life jackets when I get on board a boat. Of course I'm the guy who can't sit in a public place until I've identified all of the emergency exits.

You are welcome to come aboard my boat anytime.
My first question to anyone, before they come on board, is "Do you swim and how well?" If the answer is no, next question is "Are you willing to wear a life jacket?"
If the answer to both is no, they remain a landlubber. I can't drive the boat and play lifeguard at the same time.
I skipper my boat on a relatively small lake, but I have read of so many accidents on the "little safe lakes", I have it be a PITA when it comes to safety.

 

[Gumby]

All I know about boating is that the water is a dangerous place to be when the weather turns.

In my experience, the sea is the strongest, most relentless force on earth. It is a wise thing to fear. At the very least it demands your abiding respect.

 

[calmloki]

When floating around on big grey boats my question to myself was "how long and how far can i swim"? In my case, not far and not long. Didn't really matter though - in the middle of the sea Mike Phelps & i would have just about the same odds of swimming to safety. I had a lovingly maintained inflatable vest; on small boats i wear the newest puffiest brightest orange life preserver i can find.

 

[steve88]

You are welcome to come aboard my boat anytime.
My first question to anyone, before they come on board, is "Do you swim and how well?" If the answer is no, next question is "Are you willing to wear a life jacket?"
If the answer to both is no, they remain a landlubber. I can't drive the boat and play lifeguard at the same time.
I skipper my boat on a relatively small lake, but I have read of so many accidents on the "little safe lakes", I have it be a PITA when it comes to safety.

freebird,
Could you give us some pointers of what else to ask before boarding a boat? Besides the 2 you mention. GPS is one right? Anything else? This is my worst nightmare
Thanks

 

[FinanceDude]

It had to be delusion setting in. WHY ELSE would the two NFL guys take off the ONLY thing that could save their life??

I am not so sure about the "giving up" thing if they still had reason and were rational. It is EXTREMELY difficult to make it to the NFL and involves a TON of sacrificing over many years. NFL players don't just "give up" when times get difficult........

 

[freebird5825]

freebird,
Could you give us some pointers of what else to ask before boarding a boat? Besides the 2 you mention. GPS is one right? Anything else? This is my worst nightmare
Thanks

Are you the skipper or a passenger? Power or sail?
Sailor or landlubber?
If you want to start a new thread, I'd be very happy to answer questions and point you in the right directions.
The best layperson's boating safety training can be found here
USPS Educational Department - Public Boating Education Programs
The US Power Squadron is a national organization that teaches public courses, usually in cooperation with local water rescue or enforcement groups.
If you go to this link, USPS Educational Department, you can enter your zip code and see what is offered nearby.
Quick checklist for fishermen here : http://74.125.47.132/custom?q=cache...=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us&client=google-coop-np
I personally would add an EPIRB device to the checklist for deepwater or offshore excursions. Search on "Personal Rescue Beacon - EPIRB - SART" online.

 

[freebird5825]

It had to be delusion setting in. WHY ELSE would the two NFL guys take off the ONLY thing that could save their life??

I am not so sure about the "giving up" thing if they still had reason and were rational. It is EXTREMELY difficult to make it to the NFL and involves a TON of sacrificing over many years. NFL players don't just "give up" when times get difficult........

I believe the article said the water temp was in the 60s. Add to that horrendous wave action and panic, look at this chart, and understand that it truly is a miracle that the one guy survived.
Hypothermia safety

 

[FinallyRetired]

Terrible tragedy. As others have noted, they made boating mistakes, but most every inexperienced boater does. Even experienced boaters screw up. Survival in the conditions they found themselves in is very iffy, but staying with the boat, even a capsized boat, gives one the best chance at staying alive until found. And a boat hull is a lot easier to see than a lone swimmer. But, it's very difficult to stay with a hull if there are no handholds, so they may have tried unsuccessfully to stay with the boat. As far as taking off their jackets, the mind starts playing tricks as the body goes into hypothermia. It may not have been a conscious decision, they may have thought in their state of mind that they could swim to shore.

I found myself in a similar situation about 10 years ago and came within maybe 10 minutes of dying. Water was 50 degrees and my core temp when they pulled me out was down to 94. I hung onto the boat, in fact tied myself to whatever lines I could find, assumed the fetal position to conserve body heat, and waited for rescue. I don't want to rehash my story, but just would like to point out that before being rescued I started having thoughts about swimming to safety, and feelings of dispair. I had to concentrate on my training to remain with the boat and practice what I'd learned. I certainly gained a lot of respect for the water back then, and consider myself a much safer sailor today.

So, my heart goes out to the victim's families, and I don't think they gave up hope. I think that they fought with all their conscious will until their minds gave up and could fight no more.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Finally, as another sailor, with a similar story, I agree. It is just a damn shame that with the 406 EPIRBs and the small PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) now available so cheaply, that these wealthy folks did not have them on board.

I, too, was surprised that they gave up within hours. When we turtled offshore in a Hobie, it was more than 5 hours before the Coast Guard could find us and pull us out of the water. We had jackets, and we tied ourselves to one another because the wind and waves were so strong that we feared being separated.

Perhaps it is that we live near the coast, but none of us four panicked, were delusional, or despairing during that time. But had those safety features, even the hand-held VHF radio been available back then, we would have had them on board.

I am so sad for these families, and do recommend the book Adrift, written by Steven Callahan about his 76 day ordeal in a liferaft after his sailboat sank. A far better story of the mental facilities required to sustain hope in the great big ocean.