BFF 0.5 Million In Debt at 79 Has Passed Away

[Koolau]

Am I supposed to feel sorry for the DW, or both of them for that matter even though he is now gone, for essentially living the wrong side of the ant and the grasshopper story? Maybe I have heard too many sob stories recently like this, but my sympathy quotient appears to be at zero this Saturday morn.

Nope! He nor I are/were looking for sympathy (well, once in a while he cried on my shoulder.) He made his/their bed and he was willing to lie in it. If I feel sorry for anyone, it would be his DW, though she was more a part of the problem than the solution.

I've had friends who were alcoholics and otherwise flawed individuals. I loved them just as much while never excusing their behaviors. I would never ask anyone to excuse my friend's behavior. But if you knew him like I did, you would know his good points. As mentioned, he could lift the spirits of an entire room. He was generous. He gave way more love than he ever received.

Flawed? Absolutely. A beautiful soul? Also, absolutely. Friends are like that. Wish they (and I) were all perfect. That would be, (dare I say it?) heaven.

 

[Koolau]

Perhaps sorry for the OP, who has lost his best friend of many decades?

I can go with that.

Many thanks. I appreciate all the folks who have offered me condolences.

I've spent the time since the funeral asking myself how I will "survive" without his sense of humor and pretty much opposite personalty to bounce off of. Of course, I'll recover and survive. It's the human condition to grieve and then move on. I'll move on but I'll never forget the good times we had.

 

[Dreamer]

I've had friends who were alcoholics and otherwise flawed individuals. I loved them just as much while never excusing their behaviors. I would never ask anyone to excuse my friend's behavior. But if you knew him like I did, you would know his good points. As mentioned, he could lift the spirits of an entire room. He was generous. He gave way more love than he ever received.

Flawed? Absolutely. A beautiful soul? Also, absolutely. Friends are like that. Wish they (and I) were all perfect. That would be, (dare I say it?) heaven.

I love what you said above. I wish that more people saw others the way that you do.

 

[kongmen]

My condolences



Regarding losing BFFs'. I lost one when I was 15 and another (his brother) when I was 22. I never found another male BFF now many decades later. I met my wife the year my 2nd BFF passed and she became my new and current BFF.


Regarding getting involved in the financial affairs of BFF's widow. My experience (and yours with BFF apparently) with financially irresponsible people is that you can't save people from themselves. I learned this lesson from my late parents. My two siblings who were/are extremely financially irresponsible lived off my parents who had a very modest income for decades and despite my wife and I's tireless efforts were not able to change my parents enabling behavior. This doesn't mean you shouldn't make yourself available just follow your instincts. Depending on her relationship with her adult children (and you touched briefly on that) your efforts could prove futile. Regardless of how things come out it's obvious that your late BFF was an awesome dude!

 

[brett]

My SIL has struggled for years. Living above her income, lots of consumer debt, thinks she 'deserves' certain things that she could not afford. Bankrupt once, foreclosure, and the usual family bailouts. Her spouse is of the same ilk.

A great deal of it was down to appearances...maintaining a lifestyle front to her friends.

Now at retirement, no pension, no savings, consumer debt, and a reverse mortgage, and two aging vehicles.

Her situation will become even worse when her spouse dies.

She appears to expect some financial advice that will wash away her financial disaster so she can start the same cycle anew.

Alas, as stated above, it is too late. That ship has sailed and she has run out of knights in shining armor to the rescue. The penny has dropped with a thud.

Sad situation. Avoidable but at the same time inevitable based upon her personality.

Sometimes the more difficult decisions yield the most lasting long term benefits.

 

[Koolau]

My condolences



Regarding losing BFFs'. I lost one when I was 15 and another (his brother) when I was 22. I never found another male BFF now many decades later. I met my wife the year my 2nd BFF passed and she became my new and current BFF.


Regarding getting involved in the financial affairs of BFF's widow. My experience (and yours with BFF apparently) with financially irresponsible people is that you can't save people from themselves. I learned this lesson from my late parents. My two siblings who were/are extremely financially irresponsible lived off my parents who had a very modest income for decades and despite my wife and I's tireless efforts were not able to change my parents enabling behavior. This doesn't mean you shouldn't make yourself available just follow your instincts. Depending on her relationship with her adult children (and you touched briefly on that) your efforts could prove futile. Regardless of how things come out it's obvious that your late BFF was an awesome dude!

I know what you mean about DW as BFF. I have to agree. I met my DW in 2nd grade. So we've known each other (and been friends) for almost 70 years!

Still a male friend adds several different dynamics - as friends go. I've heard folks say they can tell their wives everything. That there are no secrets between them. I've always wondered how true that is. BUT with a male BFF, it's different. You can share some of your fears and foibles. A BFF likely won't judge you because they understand how "human" and fallible men are (without using it to advantage, heh, heh.)

 

[shafer9]

Sorry about your buddy. Sounds like he and his wife are the champions of lousy decision making. That stuff comes back to haunt you if you live long enough. At least in her case. Good luck with it.

 

[shafer9]

I agree. He has to make sure he doesn’t co-sign anything.
Cuz I bet she’ll ask.

 

[Koolau]

Sorry about your buddy. Sounds like he and his wife are the champions of lousy decision making. That stuff comes back to haunt you if you live long enough. At least in her case. Good luck with it.

Yeah, I'm gonna play it by ear, seeing how she is doing. DW and I may try to "adopt" her for a while and just listen.

 

[marko]

Nope! He nor I are/were looking for sympathy (well, once in a while he cried on my shoulder.) He made his/their bed and he was willing to lie in it. If I feel sorry for anyone, it would be his DW, though she was more a part of the problem than the solution.

I've had friends who were alcoholics and otherwise flawed individuals. I loved them just as much while never excusing their behaviors. I would never ask anyone to excuse my friend's behavior. But if you knew him like I did, you would know his good points. As mentioned, he could lift the spirits of an entire room. He was generous. He gave way more love than he ever received.

Flawed? Absolutely. A beautiful soul? Also, absolutely. Friends are like that. Wish they (and I) were all perfect. That would be, (dare I say it?) heaven.

Lovely sentiments. Man, I wish I could summon your empathy...too much of a New England Yankee, it seems. Still, your close friends are fortunate to have someone like you.

Condolences.

 

[badatmath]

Koolau, I thought of you and this thread today after I got an unexpected call from someone stating they were the executor of a friends estate and they had been instructed to notify me of their passing. Only 64 and not expected.

In this case I fear also for those left behind. . .

 

[Route246]

Condolences. It is sad and very difficult to watch a self-destructive person check out and leave a mess for those left behind. Not much you can do at this point.

 

[Koolau]

Condolences. It is sad and very difficult to watch a self-destructive person check out and leave a mess for those left behind. Not much you can do at this point.

I hope at least to be someone to talk to. But beyond that, undoing the mess may well require bankruptcy. I don't know...

 

[yclipse]

a form of spousal abuse

This brings up a point that I sometimes make, as a probate and estates lawyer: One spouse "taking care of everything" (usually the husband, but not always) and keeping the other spouse in the dark about money, where it comes from, how it is being invested and being spent, can often be regarded as a form of elder financial abuse. Very often the other spouse is complicit, preferring to "leave it to him" to handle, but there is no justification for either attitude. The spouse who is not familiar with the money issues needs to speak up and assert herself. She may have to insist, and she should. The spouse who handles things and who tells her that she "doesn't have to bother" about these issues sends up a red flag.

 

[marko]

This brings up a point that I sometimes make, as a probate and estates lawyer: One spouse "taking care of everything" (usually the husband, but not always) and keeping the other spouse in the dark about money, where it comes from, how it is being invested and being spent, can often be regarded as a form of elder financial abuse. Very often the other spouse is complicit, preferring to "leave it to him" to handle, but there is no justification for either attitude. The spouse who is not familiar with the money issues needs to speak up and assert herself. She may have to insist, and she should. The spouse who handles things and who tells her that she "doesn't have to bother" about these issues sends up a red flag.

+1. My recent surgery and hospitalization was a wake up call for DW. At age 71, she finally realized that I may not always be around. She never was interested in the finances, now she wants to learn every little detail.

Our investments are relatively simple but our finances are quite complicated with several trusts, income from various sources and the family business.

She was in international banking all her working life but she never got involved mostly because she wanted to avoid how we are financially intertwined with my side of the family. She always knew, of course, but never dug down too deeply.

After a few sessions, she gets most of it. I've written down how it all works should I not be around. Still some ground to cover, but progress.

 

[Sunset]

This brings up a point that I sometimes make, as a probate and estates lawyer: One spouse "taking care of everything" (usually the husband, but not always) and keeping the other spouse in the dark about money, where it comes from, how it is being invested and being spent, can often be regarded as a form of elder financial abuse. Very often the other spouse is complicit, preferring to "leave it to him" to handle, but there is no justification for either attitude. The spouse who is not familiar with the money issues needs to speak up and assert herself. She may have to insist, and she should. The spouse who handles things and who tells her that she "doesn't have to bother" about these issues sends up a red flag.

Agreed, and it leaves the unknowing spouse in a difficult spot when the knowing one dies..
I go so far as to insist DW & I have our own Credit cards, so each have a complete credit history.

 

[kcowan]

Koolau
This thread happened before I returned to the board so I missed it.

My only thought was could you do a book of BFF stories for you (and others as needed) and donate the proceeds to his DW? Might be a great way for you to move on?

 

[Koolau]

Koolau
This thread happened before I returned to the board so I missed it.

My only thought was could you do a book of BFF stories for you (and others as needed) and donate the proceeds to his DW? Might be a great way for you to move on?

He already wrote the book - had it self published. It's not too organized and it's more about how he was a reformed alcoholic, reformed serial womanizer, reformed bar fighter but became a Christian who preached in jails.

Something he never "conquered" in his life was his "lust" for speed. He spent a ton of money on his hobby (hobbies, really.) Of course, his DW also spent money like water. Still waiting to hear how she is doing.