Anyone check out the new Honda Insight yet?

[Bimmerbill]

Just wondering. I may stop in to a dealer to check it out. Reports of it getting 60mpg are on the net.

With all the volitility of gas prices I'm thinking of downsizing into a high mpg vehicle. Great deals are out there on the new VW Jetta diesel, but they have higher maintenance costs and lower reliability than Honda.

I'm sure buying a 12 or 13K Honda Civic is probably more cost effective. Still, the technology in the Insight interests me. I used to drive my old VW Jetta diesel for max MPG once in a while and enjoyed the challenge.

 

[wolfbay]

We have the original insight. It's 9 yrs old & without the AC on can get close to 70mpg on the highway.It is very possible the new one can get 60 mpg on the highway.

 

[Midpack]

I didn't think they would show up until late April, but I drove by my local Honda dealer this evening and there it was, a silver 2010 Insight. So I took a look, but didn't engage a sales shark or drive it. Rated at 40/43/41 and priced just over $20K. Tempting, but the 2010 Prius (avail in May?) is rated at 51/48/50, so we'll have to see where they price it. Both look like great choices. I could be buying a new car soon...

 

[ERD50]

Do the math on a similar non-hybrid. I doubt you will save money. 60mpg sounds impressive, but how much do you want to pay for economy?

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

Do the math on a similar non-hybrid. I doubt you will save money. 60mpg sounds impressive, but how much do you want to pay for economy?

-ERD50

It's not just about the math...if it was, we could all buy a series of $2,000 used cars.

 

[ERD50]

It's not just about the math...if it was, we could all buy a series of $2,000 used cars.

I have reasons for not buying a series of $2,000 used cars. I keep my cars for 10+ years, so I have a reliable car rather than buying an unknown. And I get to have a new car for at least a few of those years. I understand the tradeoffs.

But, saving gas means saving money. So how much does it cost you to save money? It's not a trade-off, it economics. And don't forget to do a harmonic mean calculation when you evaluate the savings of 60 mpg versus 35 mpg.

Unless you just like "bragging rights" for 60 mpg. Nothing to discuss then. Enjoy.

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

I have reasons for not buying a series of $2,000 used cars. I keep my cars for 10+ years, so I have a reliable car rather than buying an unknown. And I get to have a new car for at least a few of those years. I understand the tradeoffs.

But, saving gas means saving money. So how much does it cost you to save money? It's not a trade-off, it economics. And don't forget to do a harmonic mean calculation when you evaluate the savings of 60 mpg versus 35 mpg.

Unless you just like "bragging rights" for 60 mpg. Nothing to discuss then. Enjoy.

-ERD50

Some folks will buy the Insight, just as many have bought the Prius --- guess they just couldn't master the calcs. Your conclusion is the only legitimate choice; technology, emissions, conserving resources are clearly irrelevant. BTW, the economics of a series of $2,000 cars will come out ahead of buying a new car every 10 years...another form of "bragging rights."

 

[ERD50]

Some folks will buy the Insight, just as many have bought the Prius --- guess they just couldn't master the calcs. Your conclusion is the only legitimate choice; technology, emissions, conserving resources are clearly irrelevant. BTW, the economics of a series of $2,000 cars will come out ahead of buying a new car every 10 years...another form of "bragging rights."

No, those things are not irrelevant, but you didn't mention them. Like I said, if you want a hybrid "just because", there is nothing to discuss. But since you brought these topics up...

Technology - personal preference. For cars, I want the technology that works and is cost-effective, I won't buy technology for technology's sakes. I might do that with other things, and people are free to do as they please.

Emissions - yes, the hybrids have lower tailpipe emissions. I'd be interested to see what the cradle-to-grave emissions are for the extra motor and battery that were produced and sit idle 23 hours a day, 365 days a year. It might work out, I just have not seen good numbers (I've seen some crazy numbers that say the hybrids are worse, but they were clearly biased).

Conserving resources - again, do a harmonic mean calculation to see just how much gas you are saving. It hits diminishing returns. And that is offset by the comments I made above about producing the battery and motor.

I'm not sure about your $2,000 car analogy. You aren't talking here about buying used versus new, the comparison is a new hybrid versus a similar equipped new non-hybrid. Apples-to-apples.

Trust me, I don't buy new cars for "bragging rights". But I have bought (half-share) $4,000 cars for the kids. Sometimes they need $2,200 in repairs within a year. When I buy new, that isn't a big concern. Reliability is a concern, and I hate getting used to all the nuances of a car too often. I really don't think keeping a new car for ten plus years is that costly over junkers every few years. You don't get much for $2K these days and you can't be sure how reliable it will be.

I guess another way to put that is: Our 11 year old mini-van might only be worth $2,000 (I don't know), but I would certainly rather drive that, since I know its history, than to buy some $2,000 car and drive that, when I know little about it. So that's not bragging rights, they are both $2,000 cars.

-ERD50

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

Pissing contest about hybrid cars. Hold on. Let me drink more water first.

 

[ERD50]

Not a pissing contest. I'm trying to understand the concept of spending money to save less money (if that's the case).


-ERD50

 

[Bestwifeever]

I saw that Toyota may cut the price of the Prius to match the Insight, at least in Japan:

03/20/2009 - Toyota may cut price of Prius hybrid to match Honda's Insight - STLtoday.com

I haven't seen an Insight yet (I don't think ) but I've noticed more Honda Fits on the road in the last month. The gas Civic gets comparable mileage to the Fit (which is not a hybrid). DH is interested in a new small Honda or Toyota in the next two months, so we've been noticing them. One thing for sure--whichever car he picks, it will be the one model that won't be discounted

 

[eridanus]

Not a pissing contest. I'm trying to understand the concept of spending money to save less money (if that's the case).

Because some people have different values, perhaps.

 

[ERD50]

Because some people have different values, perhaps.

OK, such as?

-ERD50

 

[eridanus]

OK, such as?

-ERD50

Different ones than you.

 

[laurence]

It's a neat looking car, but my 2005 Volvo S60 is a stick shift and gets 29 MPG average, peeking over 30 on the highway, and I live 15 miles from work, so gas prices have been more of a storyline for me than a real issue. If I had a long commute or my truck/suv was on it's last legs, I'd probably pay the up front premium on an insight as I've had great experience with Honda (drove an 83 accord until I sold it - running - in 2000). 20k for a nice looking new car isn't that much of a premium, I'd clock it in as maybe 2k over the cost of a similar gas only car of the same class. Heck, some people spend that much on rims. Especially those spinners!

 

[Bimmerbill]

I like cars. Its a weakness. I like technology too.
One of my primary concerns when car shopping is safety. Usually, the newer cars have better safety features. But I like to consider maintenance costs as well, and with the gas prices swinging I try to keep an eye on MPG.

Hondas have great reliability and safety features. I was looking forward to the Accord diesel, but it won't be coming to the USA for a while (if ever).

Not trying to start a debate betweem hybrid vs regular cars.

 

[Midpack]

Not trying to start a debate between hybrid vs regular cars.

Neither was I, someone else took it in that direction, I might have let it go despite the provocation. YMMV

 

[HFWR]

Midpack, I'm shocked you aren't waiting for a Chevy Volt...

 

[ls99]

Time for pop corn, lawn chair, a six pack.

 

[ERD50]

Neither was I, someone else took it in that direction, I might have let it go despite the provocation. YMMV

I don't understand what direction people are trying to take my comments in. I'm just trying to understand what motivates some people to buy a hybrid.

The OP mentioned mpg and questioned cost effectiveness. He also said the technology "interested him". OK, but at that point what diff does the mpg/economics make?

It just seems that a lot of people have the idea of getting high mpg to save gas, but ignore other costs. Is that an unreasonable observation? Is it an unreasonable thing to discuss here?


-ERD50

 

[Gumby]

It is an interesting choice by Honda, given that the existing Civic hybrid gets better mileage at just about the same price. I can only guess that it is directed to the market segment that wants to be "seen" as driving a hybrid. The Civic hybrid looks virtually identical (inside and out) to every conventionally powered Civic, with the exception of slightly different, more aerodynamic wheels (which is how we owners identify each other) and the small "hybrid" badge on the rear. By contrast, the Prius screams "hybrid" to the world, which may be why it has been more popular.

 

[eridanus]

It just seems that a lot of people have the idea of getting high mpg to save gas, but ignore other costs. Is that an unreasonable observation?

Yes. This may help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externalities

 

[brewer12345]

I think the insight may be worth a look simply because I think Honda is good at the small engine, high efficiency thing, so it may be well done.

Personally have zero interest in buying a hybrid myself, but they look like nifty toys.

 

[Nords]

I like cars. Its a weakness. I like technology too.
One of my primary concerns when car shopping is safety. Usually, the newer cars have better safety features. But I like to consider maintenance costs as well, and with the gas prices swinging I try to keep an eye on MPG.

I was initially attracted to a Prius for its MPG. But what's really cinched the deal is the brake lifespan, the coolant lifespan, the transmission reliability, and the car's overall longevity. It's also nice to have a high-MPG vehicle that still hauls as much as most station wagons.

I don't miss starter motors, either. That's probably the weakest point of a Honda, but it's just nitpicking over whether the rating is 9.5 out of 10 or 9.6. We still see our 1990 Civic around the island occasionally, and '90s Civics are among the most-stolen vehicles for their parts-- so the "customer demand" is still there. I think it's hard to screw up choosing a Honda Civic, whether it's conventional propulsion or a hybrid.

I occasionally miss being able to drive a stick shift. Our kid, however, can't imagine why anyone would want to be constantly distracted by having to adjust engine RPM to MPH...

 

[M Paquette]

I don't understand what direction people are trying to take my comments in. I'm just trying to understand what motivates some people to buy a hybrid.

The OP mentioned mpg and questioned cost effectiveness. He also said the technology "interested him". OK, but at that point what diff does the mpg/economics make?

It just seems that a lot of people have the idea of getting high mpg to save gas, but ignore other costs. Is that an unreasonable observation? Is it an unreasonable thing to discuss here?

Nah, perfectly reasonable.

I bought one of the Prius subspecies last year, to replace a rapidly disintegrating Saturn L-200. (Needed brakes, rotors, tires, battery, A/C compressor, power steering pump, etc. Every hydraulic seal was about to blow, from what I could see. Repair costs exceeded KBB value.)

I went with the Prius because:
1) It met the interior room requirements (head space, leg room, seating, cargo capacity), actually larger than the Saturn in some dimensions.
2) It met my maintenance requirements, effectively nothing beyond oil changes, filter swaps, and inspections for the first 5 years, all parts readily available, and easily serviced. (Note: I added headlamp replacement to the list after I got the Prius. That's the one un-fun item I've encountered.
3) It checked out in the Consumer Reports reliability data for used cars as a good bet. Folks can argue all they want over CR, but the reliability data is at least available, and matches my experience closely over the past 30 years.
4) The price was really pretty good. This was in early 2008, before gas prices had started the runup to $4/gallon, and after the tax break (which I'd lose through my tax situation anyway) had gone away, and there were plenty on the lots.

I ran the numbers, and the 5 year total ownership cost (before DW gets tired of it and wants something new) looked pretty good compared to other similar sized vehicles. I included maintenance and insurance costs. The new Prius cost the same to insure as the old Saturn. Other cars in the running included the Toyota Camry and similar sized cars.

I tend to keep cars I use longer. My daily schlepping vehicle is a Metro, gets 33 MPG, and I think I could pull the engine/transaxle without a hoist. I also have no worries about accidentally getting a speeding ticket in it.