New Camry purchase

[kgtest]

DWs old 2013 Camry LE 2.5l is starting to age. Just crossed the 200,000 mile mark.

I recently had an inspection done and they came back with a few items of concern: new filters, wipers, plugs, front rotors and brakes, leaking axle seal, corroded battery cables, front struts, rear shocks, brake and coolant flush, fuel injector treatment are all things they recommended we service.

Rather than deal with these service items all at once it seemed like a good time to sell.

I did buy new plugs, filters and wipers...figure take care of the easy things, and I can easily clean off the battery cable corrosion with some sand paper and battery post cleaning tools. I'm sure I could drop some STP in the fuel and maybe that would treat the fuel. I'm not completely sold on the flushes, but the brake fluid is dirty and the axle seal failure is probably the top of the list item to get fixed that I wouldn't want to do so I would pay.

DW and I put about 20,000 miles on the car each year. She gets paid for mileage reimbursement from MegaC and always trying to stack extra miles on her trips so she earns more. Really driving the car pays for itself in terms of her mileage checks.

I figure at this age of vehicle and the high miles it's just going to become a headache with even larger ticket items starting to break. The car drives fine and looks fine, no major issues to speak of. It doesn't get as good of mileage as when we bought it used with 45k miles on it back in 2013.

I figure just save myself the future maintenance costs, sell the car right now for fair market value, and purchase a new Camry LE for around 26 to 28k including tax.

If we buy a new car here, in 10 years it will have another 200,000 on the odometer, just in time for Jr to start driving and right before I plan to FIRE. Likely we would replace it again or just give Jr the car and buy what DW would consider a "NICE" car...vs this Camry commuter.

Interest rate on a car loan is 1.89% from the credit union, and I would put down enough so it's a meager 15k loan. I could pay all cash but then our 3 to 6month emergency fund would be fully depleted.

I am super frustrated with the dealers. Every car I find online and I inquire about they state has not yet arrived, is already purchased by a customer, or is no longer available.

I'm thinking of going in there with my pre-approval letter from the Credit Union and ordering a vehicle outright...provided it doesn't take long to take delivery. Would be nice to just drive away with a Camry today if I could find a dealer that has the specs we are looking for. I might canvas the metro area and see if I can't find one on a lot but I've tried yesterday and the 3 closest dealer's don't have the 2.5l FWD, only AWD.

Also anyone have experience with the new AWD Camry? I am hesitant since I feel like it would just decrease our mileage and add complexities to the mechanics, possibly increasing future cost of ownership if something goes wrong with the additional driveline. We do live in snow ridden MN, but honestly we have gotten around just fine in the past 8 yrs with the FWD version, always making sure we have decent tire tread and replacing tires when we don't.

Any tips or input on this? Figure I always like getting multiple opinions.

Seems like the sensible thing to do right now. With our luck if I paid cash for the car with all of our reserves something major would breakdown on our home and we would be kicking ourselves. I'm wise enough to realize short of a major catastrophe, nothing that breaks would cost that much to fix. Most of the appliances have been replaced or fixed in the past few years including Fridge, Washer/Dryer, and repairing Furnace, Water Heater, and Air Conditioner.

Enough rambling what say you?

 

[REWahoo]

I'm thinking of going in there with my pre-approval letter from the Credit Union and ordering a vehicle outright...provided it doesn't take long to take delivery.

I was considering ordering a Highlander Hybrid until I did some research and learned Toyota doesn't follow the typical "order from the factory and we will built what you want" process used by most car manufacturers. Apparently each dealer is only allocated a limited number of each model and must work within their allocation to get what you want.

Here is an explanation of Toyota's process from a Reddit poster who recently ordered a Toyota:

1. You go into the dealership and tell them what you're wanting. They'll decide if they think they can get it for you or not.

2. The dealership puts a request into Toyota for the vehicle you're wanting. They now have to wait until they're allocated your vehicle.

3. The dealership is now either allocated a vehicle that has already been built but wasn't allocated anywhere else, or they get the allocation and the vehicle is put on the list for production.

4. Now the dealership has to wait on the vehicle to be delivered. Depending on the vehicle, it may be coming from Japan. So they'll be waiting on it to get on a boat, make it to port, get on a train, then a truck, then it'll finally make it to the dealership.

The allocation for ours took about 1.5 months. Then around 3 months to get from Japan to Ohio.

Looks like it could take quite a while.

 

[braumeister]

Apparently each dealer is only allocated a limited number of each model and must work within their allocation to get what you want.

A year or two ago, Volvo went to a similar model. So that's both a high volume and a low volume manufacturer doing the same thing. Perhaps the start of a trend. I can see the efficiency of it from the car maker's view, but it's a lot more difficult for the customer and the dealer.

 

[kgtest]

Dang. Well that is a little discouraging how the order new process works. Shoot.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

It's a very common practice to upsell as many services as possible, even if they are not needed. Brakes + plugs + shocks + struts + brake & coolant flush + fuel injector cleaning, all at once? I would have these checked by a trusted independent mechanic. Preferably you're following the recommended maintenance schedule.

On the other hand, used cars are being sold for very high prices these days. You might be shocked at how much your car is worth, without doing any of these things. Get a bid from carmax or places like that.

 

[braumeister]

Another thing to keep in mind is that dealers are still able to do a little horse trading between them, so if another dealer has an allocation for what you want (and hasn't presold it yet), he may well be happy to trade with your local dealer for a different allocation. There are generally ways around most difficulties, even in this situation.

 

[Midpack]

I was considering ordering a Highlander Hybrid until I did some research and learned Toyota doesn't follow the typical "order from the factory and we will built what you want" process used by most car manufacturers. Apparently each dealer is only allocated a limited number of each model and must work within their allocation to get what you want.

From what I've experienced and read, many car manufacturers will no longer let you order and they build exactly what you want - or they make the lead time so long (before the current supply chain issues) to discourage you from having a car built. This current article says that may change back again...

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/ordering-car-from-factory/

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I was considering ordering a Highlander Hybrid until I did some research and learned Toyota doesn't follow the typical "order from the factory and we will built what you want" process used by most car manufacturers. Apparently each dealer is only allocated a limited number of each model and must work within their allocation to get what you want.

Here is an explanation of Toyota's process from a Reddit poster who recently ordered a Toyota:



Looks like it could take quite a while.

Not only that, Toyota uses a regional distribution system which complicates the "custom order" quite a bit. Thankfully, most Toyota models don't have a lot of packages/add-ons like Ford does.

 

[Bflotomny]

Regarding the 2W drive vs. 4W drive. The four wheel has more components for the extra driving wheels thus the vehicle is heavier. That means lower MPG. I have a 2W Camry LS that gets 38-40mpg on the freeway. That's doing 75-85MPH. Keep in mind that 4wheel drive requires all four tires be replaced not just two. Just something's to think about.

 

[foxfirev5]

It's a very common practice to upsell as many services as possible, even if they are not needed. Brakes + plugs + shocks + struts + brake & coolant flush + fuel injector cleaning, all at once? I would have these checked by a trusted independent mechanic. Preferably you're following the recommended maintenance schedule.

Exactly. I took our new RAV4 in for it's "free" 10k service this week. I was met with a pitch for a 3 year service contract. I advised the service advisor (salesman) that I was really disappointed with the amount of work that a new Toyota would require. It exceeds the total $ that I have spent on DW's Lexus we purchased new 18 years ago!

 

[6miths]

It seems to me that this has been the model that Japanese car makers have used for many years, perhaps just in Canada. Maybe Toyota has used a more 'Big Three' model in the US in the past. Generally, through the years, the option choices offered by Japanese automakers has been much more limited than NA manufacturers.

 

[freedomatlast]

Make sure you take a long test drive and that it is comfortable for you before buying. I was thinking about getting one but the seats were way too hard for my taste, especially for long trips.

 

[JDARNELL]

We just purchased a 2022 Camry XSE. Went out of state to get it. I called dealers from 5 states before we found close to what we wanted. Several dealers I called has cars listed on their site or car sites but had already sold them. Had some good discussions with dealers though. They are basically selling what they have coming in as not a lot on the lots. The dealer we purchased from said they normally had 250 cars on the lots but only 5 per month now the wasn't already pre sold. He said they are loving it as they are selling more cars with less carrying costs. We paid MSRP and to be honest we were happy to get the car as this was a planned recapitalization purchase with certain options. It was the easiest car purchase I have ever made.

I had finance lined up but they asked if they could try. They found us a rate of 1.79% at north west federal credit union for 6 years. So I took a higher amount just to lock in the rate and kept my cash. Its strange to see your payment be 80% principal and only 20% interest. Well actually it is strange to have a car payment.

 

[Bamaman]

I had a 2018 Camry Hybrid, the first of the new Generation Camry. In 69K miles, it never saw the shop and gave me 49.5 mpg in town or on the open road.

I got bored and traded it a year ago for a 2021 Venza Hybrid AWD. It was a $32K car, substantially less than the average automobile. It's getting 42.5 mpg, and is actually closer to a Lexus in build quality and features than a Toyota. It's actually a RAV-4 with a different sheet metal and roofline--better looking.

I couldn't keep the Camry on the road accelerating on a wet day. The AWD is much more stable in slick road conditions. And if anyone lives Up North, go for the AWD vehicles.

I shy away from big national chain car dealerships that have those $799 pure profit documentary fees. I deal with an independent owned dealership south of Nashville that shoots me a straight deal. Had I bought the vehicles in Alabama, they would have cost me at least $1,000 more because of a secondary window sticker Southeast Toyota Distributers (and Gulf States) add on with useless options. Tennessee Toyotas are distributed directly by Toyota. The company was less affected by the microchip problems, but even now they and Honda are having to cut back on building vehicles.

 

[Sunset]

I read, a person can buy from a dealer's inventory for a multi-thousand dollar markup, or order a car and wait a few months.


I'm glad I don't need a new car.



OP - Getting a second opinion on repairs needed will probably save a lot of unnecessary work. With the extra charges for new cars these days, paying to fix the leaking seal and maybe the brakes would be worth it to keep using the old car another 5 months.

 

[frayne]

If your vehicle is still safe to drive and reliable for your needs, I would hang on to it. Now is probably the worst time decades to be buying a new vehicle.

 

[REWahoo]

Had I bought the vehicles in Alabama, they would have cost me at least $1,000 more because of a secondary window sticker Southeast Toyota Distributers (and Gulf States) add on with useless options.

I consider Gulf States (Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Texas) and Southeast (Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina and South Carolina) Toyota distributorships to be nothing more than thinly disguised cartels, blatantly driving up the cost with mandatory dealer add-ons. I plan on comparing the cost of buying my next new Toyota locally vs. flying to Albuquerque or Santa Fe to purchase.

 

[CoolRich59]

I read, a person can buy from a dealer's inventory for a multi-thousand dollar markup, or order a car and wait a few months.

I'm glad I don't need a new car.

It's the worst time to buy a new car.

In Nov, I totaled the DW's Highlander. I started shopping for a new one and learned that car makers and dealers are making the most of the shortage.

They are only building vehicles with the highest trim levels and then adding high-margin accessories (mud flaps, clear coat, VIN etching, etc.). Then, it's 'take it or leave it' because they have people putting down deposits on vehicles before the truck delivers them to the dealerships.

If you decide to buy, don't put down money or sign until you review the final paperwork as some dealers are adding hefty 'additional dealer markup' fees on top of the MSRP.

If you do order, insist on getting a copy of the factory build sheet so you know that what you ordered is what's being built. Also, insist on regular updates to make sure your vehicle is moving through the factory queue and will be delivered when and as promised, and it doesn't get pushed back a couple of weeks/months.

I was considering ordering a Highlander Hybrid ...

My understanding is Highlanders are built at a plant in Indiana. So, that build process may not apply to the Highlander Hybrid

 

[mystang52]

OP: It may not be better for other brands, but at least take a look at another model from a different brand that you might like.

 

[Chuckanut]

Is the AWD Camry a hybrid?

I ask because my AWD RAV4 is a hybrid. The way they make it AWD is to put another electric motor on the real axle. There is no physical drive connection between the front and rear wheels. It works well for me, but I don't take the vehicle out onto really tough off road places. I think the extra motor also helps to recharge the battery when coasting and braking. I imagine that helps improve the overall gas mileage.

 

[W2R]

If your vehicle is still safe to drive and reliable for your needs, I would hang on to it. Now is probably the worst time decades to be buying a new vehicle.

+1

That's what I've heard, too.

I have been thinking of buying a new car for several years now, but couldn't find one that I wanted. Then last year I stopped looking because it sounds like car hunting is so terrible these days.

Luckily my 2009 Toyota Venza still has only somewhere between 36K-39K miles on it, and nothing wrong with it. I could probably drive it another 10 years if I wanted to.

Also, luckily, Frank traded in his 2003 Nissan Murano with around 300K miles on it, for a slightly used little Ford Fiesta back in 2020 and he's happy with that one too. We really lucked out.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I had a 2018 Camry Hybrid, the first of the new Generation Camry. In 69K miles, it never saw the shop and gave me 49.5 mpg in town or on the open road.

I got bored and traded it a year ago for a 2021 Venza Hybrid AWD. It was a $32K car, substantially less than the average automobile. It's getting 42.5 mpg, and is actually closer to a Lexus in build quality and features than a Toyota. It's actually a RAV-4 with a different sheet metal and roofline--better looking.

I couldn't keep the Camry on the road accelerating on a wet day. The AWD is much more stable in slick road conditions. And if anyone lives Up North, go for the AWD vehicles.

Gotta disagree on AWD. It's oversold in this country. Part of the issue is the mediocre tires manufacturers put on most new vehicles.

With good tires appropriate for the season, a front-wheel drive car can handle inclement weather as well as AWD -- and better than AWD running on badly-designed all-season tires.

 

[Scuba]

If your vehicle is still safe to drive and reliable for your needs, I would hang on to it. Now is probably the worst time decades to be buying a new vehicle.

Exactly. DH has a Toyota with 135K miles, and I have a Lexus with 175K miles. We both just had to do major work on our cars. Considered selling them both and getting a new car, but this seems to be the worst time in history to buy a new car. We bit the bullet and spent almost $10K fixing our two cars, but our mechanic says we can probably keep them both for another 100K+ miles.

 

[Bamaman]

Gotta disagree on AWD. It's oversold in this country. Part of the issue is the mediocre tires manufacturers put on most new vehicles.

With good tires appropriate for the season, a front-wheel drive car can handle inclement weather as well as AWD -- and better than AWD running on badly-designed all-season tires.

There's been many times in my Camry Hybrid in the rain where I'd pull out into a major highway and just spin the front tires--going nowhere. Those electric driven vehicles are quite strong coming away from a dead start.

In my Venza AWD, when I hit the throttle hard in the rain, it just goes with little or no wheel spin felt. AWD is standard on the Venza too.

Modern tires are a big compromise, as they cannot be everything for all conditions and drivers. And let me tell you those tires they put on hybrid vehicles are different--lightweight and very easy to roll for mpg.

We seldom see snow in the Mid South and we don't warrant having a second set of tires for winter driving.

 

[Chuckanut]

We seldom see snow in the Mid South and we don't warrant having a second set of tires for winter driving.

+1 Many of us live in areas where All Season tires work well, and the number of days when we need more is very, very small.

+1 also on the front wheels spinning on wet surfaces. Electric motors have a very nice torque curve. With AWD, that is a problem that belongs to the past. That's the beauty of the hybrid, both the electric motor and IC engine can me optimized to perform best within a certain range. The other makes up for any deficiencies
.