Which Honda 2023 CRV: hybrid vs gas ?

[Lsbcal]

Mrs Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV
Wants some bells and whistle like heated seats. Maybe sporty.
Wants a hybrid for the feel good (environmental) factor. Also she points out the hybrid has more pickup (more horsepower) and might be quieter (was so in 2022 CRV model)

Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV too.
Is OK with the bells and whistles too.
Wants to do the arithmetic and make an intelligent decision not based on emotion.

Over the years I figure we drive maybe 5500 miles/year. When we travel a long distance we often go by plane+rental. Hence the low mileage. At 74 we are not likely to keep a car for as many years as in the past.

Talking to a Honda dealer in this area they are going to charge $2k over MSRP for the hybrid versus MSRP for the gas model. The gas model gets 30 mpg (combined city/highway) and the hybrid gets 38 mpg. I calculate that roughly the gas savings for the hybrid would take over 20 years to break even. The cost difference is around $6900 per year.

So what do you think. Hybrid or gas model?

 

[W2R]

Mrs Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV
Wants some bells and whistle like heated seats. Maybe sporty.
Wants a hybrid for the feel good (environmental) factor. Also she points out the hybrid has more pickup (more horsepower) and might be quieter (was so in 2022 CRV model)

Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV too.
Is OK with the bells and whistles too.
Wants to do the arithmetic and make an intelligent decision not based on emotion.

Over the years I figure we drive maybe 5500 miles/year. When we travel a long distance we often go by plane+rental. Hence the low mileage. At 74 we are not likely to keep a car for as many years as in the past.

Talking to a Honda dealer in this area they are going to charge $2k over MSRP for the hybrid versus MSRP for the gas model. The gas model gets 30 mpg (combined city/highway) and the hybrid gets 38 mpg. I calculate that roughly the gas savings for the hybrid would take over 20 years to break even. The cost difference is around $6900 per year.

So what do you think. Hybrid or gas model?

At 74, why not make a decision based on emotions instead of logic? This could be the last car you buy.

That said, I'm 74 also and personally I would buy the gas model but that's just me. I'm one of those (rare?) people whose emotions say, "support the US oil & gas industry".

 

[njhowie]

Tell Mrs that although you appreciate her points, they are not worth the $6900/year differential. If she wants to feel good, you'll make a $500 annual donation to some organization to plant trees, or do some other good for the environment.

 

[Another Reader]

The Toyota hybrids are the only ones I would buy. They have a long, relatively trouble-free history. Maybe look at the more expensive Venza and the RAV 4 hybrid before you decide?

 

[Jerry1]

Not sure how you’re coming up with $6,900 per year difference. Must have an expectation of keeping the vehicle a short time (5 years?). If I could break even in the timeframe I expected to keep the car, I’d probably go for the hybrid. Also, I would give some value to better pickup and being more quiet, but not a lot. Maybe a grand or two.

I would choke on paying MSRP or above so I probably wouldn’t by anything right now. Though I agree with WR2 - at some point, you just do and get what you want. At 74, unless you churn cars, this is probably one of the few vehicles you’ll be yet to purchase.

 

[martyp]

I’ve got a 2022 CR-V. The gas version. Best car I’ve ever had. My previous car was a Prius so the milage difference is a bit of a hit but I needed the bigger heavier car. The hybrid version was not available here so I didn’t have that choice. I think I probably would have gone with the gas version anyway based on purchase price.

 

[Bamaman]

The Toyota hybrids are the only ones I would buy. They have a long, relatively trouble-free history. Maybe look at the more expensive Venza and the RAV 4 hybrid before you decide?

We have a year old Venza Hybrid AWD, and just love it. We average 42.5 mpg, and it's plenty quick. It's actually a RAV-4 with better looking sheet metal.

If you have a heavy foot, RAV-4 has a Plug In hybrid drive that's incredibly quick.

My Venza was a replacement for a 3 year old Camry hybrid FWD that got 49.5 mpg. And neither of my hybrids ever saw a shop for any reason. The Venza is a higher quality vehicle than the Camry--more on the line of a Lexus than a Toyota .

 

[mn54]

I have a 2021 honda accord hybrid. i get 50 mpg. like any electric or hybrid, the car is extremely quiet. yes the hybrid costs more when you buy it, but it will also be worth more when you sell it. the one thing to note is it does not come with a spare. i bought one after getting the car.

 

[mf15]

The small turbo engines and CVT's are driving me nuts. I am looking myself for
a new SUV. Current 2010 Escape V6,2013 Accord V6,automatics.
Oldmike

 

[ERD50]

... Wants a hybrid for the feel good (environmental) factor. ...

I would tell her that at those low miles, the hybrid probably doesn't have much, if any 'feel good' environmental factor.

The extra battery and electric motor and controller have a negative environmental hit to them to manufacture in the first place. Now, that can be offset with lower gas consumption and lower related pollution if you drive a lot of miles, so there's a real environmental payback. But your miles might never create enough positive offset to make up for the extra environmental hit at production.

I think hybrids are great for those who put higher miles on, I'd actually like to own one for various reasons, but with our ~3,000 annual miles on each of our 2 cars, I just don't think it makes sense, environmentally, or economically.

As someone else suggested, take the savings of the gas model, and invest it in something with more positive environmental impact - win-win!

-ERD50

 

[FIYes]

I bought my CRV new 4 years ago. I have really enjoyed it. It is a gas model, not sure that a hybrid model was even offered then. I would like a hybrid, but really since I drive so few miles it doesn’t make that much of an environmental impact…gas versus hybrid. I have really enjoyed the bells and whistles. It is an easy to drive vehicle.

 

[Midpack]

We've owned four hybrids, 2007 Camry, 2012 Prius, 2019 Accord & 2022 Hyundai Santa Fe. We had the Camry for 11 years, and never had a single issue with the drivetrains of any of the cars (so far in the case of the last two). They get outstanding mpg's but it takes a long time to break even, even longer with the OPs low miles/year.

• It's really not an economic decision with such low miles, it will take a LONG time to break even.
• Lower emissions and using less fossil fuel is a good reason in itself (the main reason we buy hybrids, though the Camry did pay for itself)
• Though they're very good, it's nonsense that only Toyota makes a good hybrid. Honda was first to market with the original Insight. After more than 20 years the technology is very well known now.
• The hybrid CRV won't be noticeably quieter except when in full EV mode, not often.
• Nothing wrong with asking for info here or elsewhere, but it's your decision - I wouldn't let random strangers vote on the decision itself. YMMV

 

[REWahoo]

I think hybrids are great for those who put higher miles on, I'd actually like to own one for various reasons, but with our ~3,000 annual miles on each of our 2 cars, I just don't think it makes sense, environmentally, or economically.

I agree that a hybrid doesn't make a lot of sense in your situation. We put 12-15,000 miles combined on our two vehicles, still not enough to make a clear case that a hybrid is the way to go. But we bought one anyway. Here's why.

After 15+ years of RVing we decided last fall, for a number of reasons, to give it up. The used RV market was very good at the time and we sold our 5th wheel quickly for a good price. We had been thinking about replacing our 8 year old SUV (22 mpg combined) and looking at new hybrid SUVs which were almost impossible to find, much less afford with the big dealer mark-ups. Luckily, a one year old CPO hybrid exactly like we wanted showed up at a local dealer and we bought it. The trade in of our old SUV plus the $ from the sale of our 5th wheel covered over 90% of the purchase cost.

This left us with an almost new hybrid SUV and an 11 year old big @ss diesel truck, a vehicle we no longer had a need for since we sold our RV. The market for big @ss diesel trucks in TX was also very good and I sold it for what I thought was a ridiculous price (for the buyer), more than enough to buy a new EV and cover the small shortfall on our SUV purchase.

In summary, we went from 8 and 11 year old vehicles getting 22 and 15 mpg respectively, to 1 and 0 year old vehicles getting 36 mpg and 115 empg. While we probably don't drive enough to justify our purchases, we really like the safety features and other bells & whistles with the newer technology. Combine that with zero out of pocket costs to us and I can sleep very well at night knowing it likely does not makes sense, environmentally, or economically

 

[Qs Laptop]

I can appreciate your situation. This is a tricky question.

You said,

At 74 we are not likely to keep a car for as many years as in the past.

Understandable, but how long will this be? I would submit if you think you will be keeping this car for longer than 5 years, I would go with the hybrid. If 5 years or less, *probably* the gas powered CRV.

Here's my logic:

* The world is moving toward an EV future. It's doubtful the price of gas is going to drop long term, more likely it will go up. The hybrid would be an advantage.

* The market for gas powered used cars is going to radically change in the next 5 to 10 years. It's likely a gas vehicle's resale value will drop as the years go by as EV's and hybrids are widely adopted. In 10 years it might be hard to sell a gas powered car, especially if gas prices are inflated.

* Your wife wants the hybrid. Get the hybrid.

 

[jfn111]

I went to the dealership to order a hybrid CRV. The wife of course fell in love with the 2022 Passport. Guess who won?

 

[Lsbcal]

Thanks very much for all the comments. Please keep them coming.

A few comments stuck out for me:

ERD50: Very interesting to hear that the environmental factor is possibly negated for us low mileage drivers. If you have a not to detailed source for this I'd like to see it. BTW, we are not interested in EV's at this time because we have had fire emergencies around here (2 evacuations) and need to have some gas fuel in the energy mix for peace of mind. Might consider for a 2nd city car though.

Bamaman: Might consider a Vensa though I think it is higher priced then the RAV4 hybrid. I also don't know about the rear view with those sleek back side windows. Would have to drive one. So many cars are in short supply that there are not even demo models to try out. At least the Honda dealer I contacted is taking a list for customers who want a test drive and will actually have test model when they start arriving in October.

Midpack: Nowhere did I indicate that this is DW's replacement car. We both decide together on purchase decisions. I am the researcher though as she is not into detailed analysis.

Qs Laptop: The hybrid might just be our choice because of the extra power and reduced compartment noise (true for the 2022 RAV4). I am not sure what the future holds. Here in California the new only gas vehicles won't be allowed for sale eventually (new law passed).

 

[Aerides]

Is this to be your only joint car? Or "her" car - in that case, her so-called emotional decisions have more weight than implied here.

I don't inject too many thoughts into DH's car of choice. I'd never pick it, he likes sporty roadster types that aren't very comfy, and are harder to get in and out of.

I like a small SUV as I like being higher off the ground. I like more bells and whistles. The car I buy is the one I feel best sitting in. Like..in the test drive I know this feels like me or not.

Neither of us would consider overriding the other's choices unless they were obviously bad, which would be unlikely.

 

[Lsbcal]

Aerides, it is a joint car and we both drive either of the 2 cars. Whatever we buy we will both want to drive but DW will probably win in a tie.

 

[Midpack]

Midpack: Nowhere did I indicate that this is DW's replacement car. We both decide together on purchase decisions. I am the researcher though as she is not into detailed analysis.

Fair enough, sorry. DW and I have always had "our" car as do most couples/families I know. I shouldn't have assumed that applies to all. I edited my post above, but leave this reply to acknowledge my mistaken assumption.

We both decide together on major purchases as well, but in some cases it comes down to the decision one of us makes after discussion is complete.

 

[braumeister]

Fair enough, sorry. DW and I have always had "our" car as do most couples/families I know.

That surprises me because every couple I know very definitely has "his" and "her" cars that are rarely if ever driven by the other person.

 

[Jerry1]

That surprises me because every couple I know very definitely has "his" and "her" cars that are rarely if ever driven by the other person.

That’s my experience as well - including my household. DW will drive my truck on occasion but it’s my truck and her suv. The nice thing is that both of our vehicles have memory for the seats and mirrors. That helps a lot when the significant other uses the other vehicle.

As for the buying decision, much like Aerides described, we both talk about the purchase, but we get what we want for us individually.

 

[Chuckanut]

Mrs Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV
Wants some bells and whistle like heated seats. Maybe sporty.
Wants a hybrid for the feel good (environmental) factor. Also she points out the hybrid has more pickup (more horsepower) and might be quieter (was so in 2022 CRV model)

Lsbcal
Wants a new SUV too.
Is OK with the bells and whistles too.
Wants to do the arithmetic and make an intelligent decision not based on emotion.

Over the years I figure we drive maybe 5500 miles/year. When we travel a long distance we often go by plane+rental. Hence the low mileage. At 74 we are not likely to keep a car for as many years as in the past.

Talking to a Honda dealer in this area they are going to charge $2k over MSRP for the hybrid versus MSRP for the gas model. The gas model gets 30 mpg (combined city/highway) and the hybrid gets 38 mpg. I calculate that roughly the gas savings for the hybrid would take over 20 years to break even. The cost difference is around $6900 per year.

So what do you think. Hybrid or gas model?

5500 miles a year make it hard to justify the hybrid even at today's gas prices (Which just jumped by 60¢ a gallon in less than a week in my area).
Also the additional cost of the hybrid system seems excessive to me.

When I bought my RAV4 Hybrid in 2019, the extra cost for the hybrid system was $800. And I planned on taking many road trips in it over the next decade (God willing and the creek don't rise). Covid dashed that for a while and I was barely putting 6000 miles a year on the car for the first year and a half. However, that has changed and my annual average miles driven over my entire ownership period is now up to 9000. Last year I did a 4000 mile road trip. This year I finished a 6000 mile trip. I've also done three or four smaller 4-7 day trips that were under 1000 miles each. This is my situation so you know where I am coming from.

IMHO, in your situation I would not get the hybrid, all else being equal (which it may or may not be). If the environment is a concern perhaps spending the $2000 premium on something else might be better. For example, adding insulation to the house, solar power, more efficient appliances, heat pumps, etc.

 

[Texas Proud]

I know a lot of people do not care but I just do not like the CVT transmissions...


As for the decision making I am with the people who point out your low mileage... it will not ever pay back the difference...


On the other hand.... if you do not keep it that long then someone else will be able to get that benefit of helping out the plant...

 

[mf15]

Fires.
https://jalopnik.com/hybrid-cars-light-on-fire-more-than-electric-and-gas-po-1848454698

 

[Lsbcal]

Just another issue with hybrid's. Some of the trim models with their options can only be had on the hybrid. CRV's seem to have fewer trim models. So if we want a feature it could force us into the hybrid. Unclear at this point exactly what features are on each trim but will be clearer in a month or so.

With stocks down so much I am getting to be more skin flintish. But maybe I'll just blow that doh.