Asian food

[braumeister]

For any who wonder, "fish sauce" has pretty much been a universal condiment in much of the world for thousands of years. There are lots of variations, but all pretty similar. The Romans called it "garum" and relied heavily on it for seasoning many of their dishes.

While I was stationed in Vietnam (back in Pre-Cambrian times), there was a nuoc mam factory nearby, and when the wind was right we had a hard time dealing with the aroma. Very tasty stuff when properly used though. I always have a bottle in my pantry. I believe in Thailand it's called nam pla.

Basically, it's just fish and salt, allowed to ferment and age, then strained.

In the early 20th century, the celebrated Institut Pasteur in Paris studied nuoc mam for 16 years, from 1914 to 1930, to understand the fermentation process that Vietnamese peasants had been employing for centuries. The two necessary ingredients were fish and salt. The fish were usually small ones of the Clupeidae family, to which herrings and sardines belong. The fish sat in salt for three days, which produced a juice, some of which was reserved to ripen in the sun, while the remainder was pressed with the fish to produce a mush. The two were then mixed together and left for three months, sometimes much longer. Then the solid parts were strained out.

-- from Salt, A World History, by Mark Kurlansky

 

[Meadbh]

Check out this episode of the BBC series "Supersizers" in which two hosts live and eat as in Ancient Rome for a week. Garum features prominently. Ewww!

The Supersizers Eat... Ancient Rome (Part 2) - YouTube

 

[veremchuka]

The mango pickles often use mustard oil. I'm guessing that's what you're smelling/tasting.

Tamarind tastes pretty sweet and fruity with a good tanginess. Beyond that description you'll have to try some straight.

Thanks Audrey, it sounds like I'd like tamarind. There was nothing sweet or fruity in the Pad Thai, sour maybe, again I can't put my finger on that flavor and I tried while eating it.

I had Egg Foo Young today. It was a lot to eat! I was hoping for a pint/quart option but it is a dish meal. There must have been 4-5 eggs in it and it was ok but I did not like the sauce on it. Thick and sticky, it reminded me of a too thick turkey gravy! I won't order this again.

There are only so many vegetarian dishes on the menus at Chinese restaurants and other than Chop Suey, Chow Mein and Chow Mei Fun I've tried them all. Chop Suey IIRC has a sauce similiar to what I had today. I had it once or twice as a kid and did not like it. I'd try the last two.

 

[ronocnikral]

I love me some good pad thai. I prefer the omelet style. Don't forget that pad thai also has oyster sauce. Also, at least in thailand, pad thai is frequently made with small dried shrimps.

My favorite thai dish is drunken noodles (pad kee mao) which is low on the fish sauce, but strong on the thai basil. Also I like green curry and massaman curries (but many curry pastes are made with shrimp paste). And my favorite recent discovery has been khao soi.

 

[ERD50]

Egg Foo Young is an American dish. It's really just an omelet with bean sprouts and other veggies and meat with gravy.

I always assumed Egg Foo Young was an American thing, but when I went to wiki and other sources, they say it is based on a traditional Chinese dish.

The nearest take out that we like is a bit of a drive, I haven't had Egg Foo Young in a long time, and I do like it very much. Then I recalled, I made it at home many years ago, from a 'kit' that included the canned vegetables and the sauce ingredients, and it was surprisingly good, and easy. So I looked up some 'from scratch' recipes, so I plan to make it this week. I see a variety of 'gravy' recipes, think I'll make a small batch to test. A little shrimp in the foo young, some rice, and chinese style ribs should make a meal. If I get really ambitious, I should try to make some hot & sour soup, though I'm the only one who likes it - but egg drop soup is easy, and DW likes that.

RE: Fish Sauce - I recall some Asian workers heating food in the microwaves that smelled to me like it was rotted. Might have been a strong fish sauce. That stuff scares me. DW makes a few dishes with it, and if it is used in very low quantities, it adds a nice complexity. Any more than that turns me off. But she bought a big bottle - I fear that if it breaks and leaks out in the pantry, that I'd have to burn the house down and rebuild to get rid of the smell.

-ERD50

 

[growing_older]

There are only so many vegetarian dishes on the menus at Chinese restaurants

If you find a meat dish that sounds interesting at a Chinese Restaurant, you can also ask them to prepare a vegetarian version of it. In my experience, most will work with you to adapt, since many dishes are stir fried in a wok they can often adjust easily.

 

[NW-Bound]

Out of curiosity, I read the following Wikipedia on kimchi, and found out that I did not know much about it.

Kimchi - Wikipedia

As stated earlier, I ate kimchi with some Korean dishes, liked it, and did not find it to be strong in flavor at all. I thought it was just pickled cabbage, not unlike sauerkraut, except for the spiciness due to the chili. What I ate was the type sold in clear jars that I found in a local Oriental store.

However, the Wikipedia article describes so many different types of kimchi, some with fish sauce, some with fermented shrimp, some with oysters. It appears that the type that I experienced might be the most innocuous type of kimchi. Oh la la!

Anyway, the Wiki article includes the following: "Health magazine named kimchi in its list of top five "World's Healthiest Foods" for being rich in vitamins, aiding digestion, and even possibly reducing cancer growth." This reference seems to be the same as what Braumeister cited earlier.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Here in our area of metro Atlanta we have one
of the largest Korean populations in the USA. .

This statement surprised me, I looked up 3-4 lists of populations and can't find Atlanta on any (Roswell,GA showed up as 100 on a list). Chicago has a good sized Korean population and has a neighborhood name Koreatown, but it's not as big as Los Angeles.

 

[FUEGO]

I am always shocked at the Fish Sauce quantities in recipes. 1/3 cup, 1/2 cup, etc? Wow that would knock my socks off with stink and saltiness. DW (who is Thai, was born in Thailand, lived in Thailand during her youth, and grew up eating what her momma cooked) agrees. DW puts splashes of this stuff in dishes to taste. Maybe 1-2 tablespoons in a big pot of something (like pad thai or fried rice).

By the way, here is a link to the pic of the pad thai sauce we sometimes buy for convenience (instead of making it from scratch): Hannaford | Asian | Maesri Pad Thai Sauce It is $2 for us locally in the asian store. We usually use 4-5 jars if we make a big batch of pad thai for family. 1 jar probably good for 2-3 servings. Of course we like plenty of sauce.

 

[timeasterday]

This statement surprised me, I looked up 3-4 lists of populations and can't find Atlanta on any (Roswell,GA showed up as 100 on a list). Chicago has a good sized Korean population and has a neighborhood name Koreatown, but it's not as big as Los Angeles.

We (Georgia as a whole) are 8th in the USA according to the 2010 Census. We're no match for CA and NY but still respectable numbers. Most live in our county as far as I can tell due to the sheer amount of signage I see in Korean and the Korean churches on every corner. You just don't see that in other metro counties.

 

[timeasterday]

However, the Wikipedia article describes so many different types of kimchi, some with fish sauce, some with fermented shrimp, some with oysters. It appears that the type that I experienced might be the most innocuous type of kimchi. Oh la la!

Anyway, the Wiki article includes the following: "Health magazine named kimchi in its list of top five "World's Healthiest Foods" for being rich in vitamins, aiding digestion, and even possibly reducing cancer growth." This reference seems to be the same as what Braumeister cited earlier.

Oh yeah, you go to the Super-H or Assi supermarkets around here and there's a huge section dedicated to kimchi. I love it! My favorite is the kind with oysters. That reminds me, we need to buy another bucket soon.

 

[audreyh1]

I am always shocked at the Fish Sauce quantities in recipes. 1/3 cup, 1/2 cup, etc? Wow that would knock my socks off with stink and saltiness. DW (who is Thai, was born in Thailand, lived in Thailand during her youth, and grew up eating what her momma cooked) agrees. DW puts splashes of this stuff in dishes to taste. Maybe 1-2 tablespoons in a big pot of something (like pad thai or fried rice).

By the way, here is a link to the pic of the pad thai sauce we sometimes buy for convenience (instead of making it from scratch): Hannaford | Asian | Maesri Pad Thai Sauce It is $2 for us locally in the asian store. We usually use 4-5 jars if we make a big batch of pad thai for family. 1 jar probably good for 2-3 servings. Of course we like plenty of sauce.

Thanks for that product suggestion, I'll look for it. A local Asian store carries their curry pastes. Although I'm not sure I can find the other unusual ingredients - spiced tofu and sweet pickled radish - locally.

Ingredients: sugar, tamarind juice, shallot, garlic, salt, tomato paste, distilled vinegar, soybean oil, chilli powder.

Oh good - they left out the MSG. I always appreciate that.

I notice several Pad Thai recipes blow off the spiced tofu (some use firm tofu) and sweet pickled radish ingredients, so maybe I should too.

 

[FUEGO]

Thanks for that product suggestion, I'll look for it. A local Asian store carries their curry pastes. Although I'm not sure I can find the other unusual ingredients - spiced tofu and sweet pickled radish - locally.

Ingredients: sugar, tamarind juice, shallot, garlic, salt, tomato paste, distilled vinegar, soybean oil, chilli powder.

Oh good - they left out the MSG. I always appreciate that.

I notice several Pad Thai recipes blow off the spiced tofu (some use firm tofu) and sweet pickled radish ingredients, so maybe I should too.

We buy the Maesri brand curries too, in the little 4 oz cans usually. Our asian store has a good variety of those in other brands that are similar and cheaper, and we have had good luck with those.

I haven't seen the pickled radish in pad thai locally (or from DW's family). Sometimes I'll see tofu in pad thai. Mostly regular or firm tofu, or "pressed" tofu. This pressed tofu might be the same as spiced tofu? Brown outside, white inside, fairly firm texture?

 

[audreyh1]

Sometimes I'll see tofu in pad thai. Mostly regular or firm tofu, or "pressed" tofu. This pressed tofu might be the same as spiced tofu? Brown outside, white inside, fairly firm texture?

That sounds like it. I do like it in the pad thai.

 

[NW-Bound]

I am always shocked at the Fish Sauce quantities in recipes. 1/3 cup, 1/2 cup, etc? Wow that would knock my socks off with stink and saltiness. DW (who is Thai, was born in Thailand, lived in Thailand during her youth, and grew up eating what her momma cooked) agrees. DW puts splashes of this stuff in dishes to taste. Maybe 1-2 tablespoons in a big pot of something (like pad thai or fried rice).

Yeah. Fish sauce in moderation is not bad at all, like many people here have said.

Don't you think these salty-food eating people would be dropping like flies from high blood pressure? Or do they have genetic immunity somehow? What's going on? Medical professionals reading this thread, here's a research topic for you.

Oh yeah, you go to the Super-H or Assi supermarkets around here and there's a huge section dedicated to kimchi. I love it! My favorite is the kind with oysters. That reminds me, we need to buy another bucket soon.

I do not have such audacity. I will stick with the most benign kimchi, thank you. Why ruin a good thing? Even then, my wife gives me a hard time for the salt content of it.

 

[Marita40]

I like just about all Asian food except Korean, especially Japanese and Thai. Have been trying some Hmong restaurants that have recently opened in St. Paul--we have a sizable Hmong population.

 

[FUEGO]

Yeah. Fish sauce in moderation is not bad at all, like many people here have said.

Don't you think these salty-food eating people would be dropping like flies from high blood pressure? Or do they have genetic immunity somehow? What's going on? Medical professionals reading this thread, here's a research topic for you.

I think the typical rural southeast asian diet is rice rice rice hard work rice, and then some rice. Sometimes they get meat or chicken or fish. And whatever veggies they can grow, and tropical fruits like papaya, mango, bananas. At least in DW's family's old village this is what it was like.

It's probably the high levels of exercise and lower caloric intake that keeps them healthy. How many Chinese buffets do they have in rural China?

 

[NW-Bound]

The Oriental people here in the US may have health problems that the natives back home do not have. It's the same as the American Japanese who do not have the same longevity as the native Japanese.

But back on fish sauce, Chinese cuisine does not use it, as far as I know. Perhaps they have another salty condiment. I do not know how much soy sauce they would use.

And this talk just reminded me of a story told by my brother. For lunch, he went to a Vietnamese pho noodle shop with a coworker, who was Chinese. Like many eateries like this, they had fish sauce and condiments like chili paste on each table for customers to season their bowl of pho to their taste.

My brother said that his coworker loved fish sauce, and would pour out a tablespoon and swallow it by itself, and exclaimed "Yummy!". Good grief! You would think one's tongue would shrivel up from the saltiness and stinkiness.

My brother politely reminded him about the health hazard of salt, and this guy said he never had any problem with his BP.

 

[detroitbabu]

There are also some excellent Indian restaurants the closer one gets to Pittsburgh.

If you like South Indian food, the absolute best one (in the whole of USA) is this one. It is near the Indian temple in Monroeville. I would drive 5-6 hours to Pittsburgh to eat there. Try it sometime.

Udipi Cafe - Monroeville, PA

 

[WhoDaresWins]

If you like South Indian food, the absolute best one (in the whole of USA) is this one. It is near the Indian temple in Monroeville. I would drive 5-6 hours to Pittsburgh to eat there. Try it sometime.

Udipi Cafe - Monroeville, PA

Udipi is one of my all time favorites! I dine there at least a half a dozen times a year and I have taken friends there, too, who have all loved it. I live a half an hour drive from Monroeville....was actually there on Friday getting my car inspected at the dealer but alas did not go to Udipi.
I have been to the temple before, too, for a one-year party for a friend's daughter. It is really stunning!

 

[veremchuka]

Yesterday I went back to the Thai restaurant and tried the Green Curry. I was told the Green Curry was spicier than the Red Curry. It was pretty hot (spicy) but it could have been hotter for me.

The Green Curry was fantastic! Based upon how good this was I would never waste a penny on the Pad Thai at this restaurant. There are more dishes to try but I think it's going to be hard to beat the Green Curry.

 

[photoguy]

Don't you think these salty-food eating people would be dropping like flies from high blood pressure? Or do they have genetic immunity somehow? What's going on? Medical professionals reading this thread, here's a research topic for you.

I was talking with a fellow colleague from china and he was mentioning that he did not like (or liked less) chinese food made in the U.S. He said the food was way saltier (and the chicken here is tasteless). When I see the native born chinese in the cafeteria they typically pile up their plates with tons of vegetables like bok choy and only have a little meat.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have not been to China to know the true Chinese food. But then, I think a large country such as China would have many regional cuisines, and it may not be possible to make a generalization.

About the tasteless chicken, I wonder if they eat more free-range chicken, which might taste superior. I have heard of free-range chicken in the US, but have not had a chance to sample it (note to self: check this out!).

So, not having been to China, I have had the chance to try food in various Chinatowns in western cities like SF, LA, Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, Portland, Chicago, Boston, NYC, Honolulu, Sydney, etc... The food is generally similar and mostly OK to me. Perhaps I have been accustomed to salty food myself!

 

[jclarksnakes]

Yeah. Fish sauce in moderation is not bad at all, like many people here have said.

Don't you think these salty-food eating people would be dropping like flies from high blood pressure? Or do they have genetic immunity somehow? What's going on? Medical professionals reading this thread, here's a research topic for you.


I do not have such audacity. I will stick with the most benign kimchi, thank you. Why ruin a good thing? Even then, my wife gives me a hard time for the salt content of it.

Salt is only contraindicated for those people WITH hypertension. The rest of us with with normal blood pressure are okay eating salty foods.
Salt Causes High Blood Pressure - The Truth Behind 5 Food Myths


I lived in Korea for three years. Korean food is delicious and if you like spicy food it is especially good. I must have had 30 different types of Kimchi and most of them were great. I have limited experience with Thai food but I like to try out different Asian restaurants whenever I can. I could eat Sushi three meals a day.

 

[photoguy]

Korean food is extremely salty and they supposedly have one of the highest sodium intakes in the world (a big chunk from kimchi). I would not want to eat a purely korean diet every day. Also aside from fruit, there's not much in the way of vegetables that aren't pickled.

Edit: part of me wonders if the high salt content has lead to lower lifespans in korea vs other developed countries (it's relatively low).