California Water Restrictions

[Midpack]

I saw it coming and left permanently in 1987. Don’t miss it one bit.

+1. I don’t know how anyone who lives in the southwest wasn’t aware of looming water issues for decades. It’s been widely publicized.

 

[NW-Bound]

Water in the West has always been scarce and fought over.

In 1902, a civil engineer named Mulholland designed the 235-mile Los Angeles Aqueduct to bring water from Owens Valley to San Fernando Valley. Mulholland Drive/Mulholland Highway is a 21-mile road named after him.

After draining so much water from Owens Valley to turn it into a desert, in 1941, LA County extended the LA Aqueduct further north to drain the inflow of Mono Lake.

In an RV trip, I had a chance to drive by Owens Valley as I drove west to exit from Death Valley. I then turned north to follow the Aqueduct going up to Mono Lake. It was interesting to see what could be built more than 100 years ago.

 

[Koolau]

Water in the West has always been scarce and fought over.

In 1902, a civil engineer named Mulholland designed the 235-mile Los Angeles Aqueduct to bring water from Owens Valley to San Fernando Valley. Mulholland Drive/Mulholland Highway is a 21-mile road named after him.

After draining so much water from Owens Valley to turn it into a desert, in 1941, LA County extended the LA Aqueduct further north to drain the inflow of Mono Lake.

In an RV trip, I had a chance to drive by Owens Valley as I drove west to exit from Death Valley. I then turned north to follow the Aqueduct going up to Mono Lake. It was interesting to see what could be built more than 100 years ago.

Then, of course, there are the Roman aqueducts, predating Mulholland by what(?) 2000 years.

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/roman-aqueduct

 

[Koolau]

In my lifetime Ca. went from 16m to 40m. With few major infrastructure changes. Might be part of the problem.

I saw it coming and left permanently in 1987. Don’t miss it one bit.

I read someplace that U-haul one-ways are many times more out than in, creating a real repositioning problem for them.

Heh, heh, "last one out, turn out the lights." YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

Then, of course, there are the Roman aqueducts, predating Mulholland by what(?) 2000 years.

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/roman-aqueduct

Yes, the Roman were ingenious civil engineers. One of the photos is the aqueduct crossing the town of Segovia, Spain, and I had a chance to see it in person.

The Roman did not have the technology that Mulholland did in 1900. What is unique about the LA Aqueduct is that it has a 12-mile section that is a closed pipe that siphons water over Sugar Loaf Mountain. The giant syphon operates on gravity and requires no pumping.

The above so-called Jawbone syphon still needed priming to start in the beginning. And if it runs dry, it will need priming again.

 

[Chuckanut]

I remember seeing the Pont du Gard in France. A huge three story (if that is the right word) aqueduct built over 2000 years ago that still stands. It is an amazing structure.

 

[Turbo29]

Then, of course, there are the Roman aqueducts, predating Mulholland by what(?) 2000 years.

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/roman-aqueduct

Imagine making all the required calculations using Roman numerals.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Water in the West has always been scarce and fought over.

In 1902, a civil engineer named Mulholland designed the 235-mile Los Angeles Aqueduct to bring water from Owens Valley to San Fernando Valley. Mulholland Drive/Mulholland Highway is a 21-mile road named after him.

After draining so much water from Owens Valley to turn it into a desert, in 1941, LA County extended the LA Aqueduct further north to drain the inflow of Mono Lake.

In an RV trip, I had a chance to drive by Owens Valley as I drove west to exit from Death Valley. I then turned north to follow the Aqueduct going up to Mono Lake. It was interesting to see what could be built more than 100 years ago.

The PCT follows right over the aqueduct for roughly 17 miles through the Mojave. I knew nothing about it, but was amazed at the engineering feat when walking it.

 

[street]

Yes, the Roman were ingenious civil engineers. One of the photos is the aqueduct crossing the town of Segovia, Spain, and I had a chance to see it in person.

The Roman did not have the technology that Mulholland did in 1900. What is unique about the LA Aqueduct is that it has a 12-mile section that is a closed pipe that siphons water over Sugar Loaf Mountain. The giant syphon operates on gravity and requires no pumping.

The above so-called Jawbone syphon still needed priming to start in the beginning. And if it runs dry, it will need priming again.

Very interesting!!

 

[NW-Bound]

The perpetual water shortage in California is the backdrop for the excellent crime mystery movie Chinatown.


And here's some music for an entr'acte.


In the mornin' you go gunnin' for the man who stole your water
And you fire 'til he is done in but they catch you at the border...

 

[Zathras]

Eh, when oil and gas wells run dry, if you want some solar power sent up north, you will need to send some water westward.

This is unlikely. The water covenants are agreements between all the great lake states as well as Canada. All of those participants would need to agree to any changes.

As for solar, no real need, we have lots, and even more wind.

 

[MichaelB]

Imagine making all the required calculations using Roman numerals.

 

[Zathras]

Ice is frozen water which is why we call it ice and not water.
If I said the earth amount of water is always the same I would not include ice.
If I was including ice I would say water and ice.

When people refer to the amount of water on earth being consistent, it refers to all forms of water. Liquid, solid and gaseous.

Water transitions from liquid, to solid, to gas fairly easily. Water vapor tends to hang around in the atmosphere for a few days, ice tends to be more seasonal, but not always.

 

[NW-Bound]

This is unlikely. The water covenants are agreements between all the great lake states as well as Canada. All of those participants would need to agree to any changes.

As for solar, no real need, we have lots, and even more wind.

OK. The northern states will need to grow their own food too.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

When people refer to the amount of water on earth being consistent, it refers to all forms of water. Liquid, solid and gaseous.

Water transitions from liquid, to solid, to gas fairly easily. Water vapor tends to hang around in the atmosphere for a few days, ice tends to be more seasonal, but not always.

Thanks. I didn’t know that the other day.
After all if someone asks me if I have water in my refrigerator I don’t say yes and then hand them a glass of ice. [emoji23]

It was always my understanding- which is quite obviously limited on this subject- that more liquid water creates more moisture in the clouds and therefore more water etc etc.

 

[NW-Bound]

Thanks. I didn’t know that the other day.
After all if someone asks me if I have water in my refrigerator I don’t say yes and then hand them a glass of ice. [emoji23]

It was always my understanding- which is quite obviously limited on this subject- that more liquid water creates more moisture in the clouds and therefore more water etc etc.

Speaking of rain, the total precipitation in the US is not at all bad. The problem is that some places get way more than they want, mostly from hurricanes, while we don't get enough here in the West.


From the National Climate Report - Annual 2020 of the NOAA:

The contiguous U.S. average annual precipitation was 30.28 inches, which is 0.34 inches above the long-term average, ranking in the middle third of the historical record. Above-average annual precipitation was observed from the Great Lakes and Plains to the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic regions...

 

[explanade]

Someone proposed shipping water from the Upper Midwest to the West.

Would be a monumental engineering challenge, getting water over the Rockies.

A few years ago, TX was in deep drought. Governor there actually had these big prayer events.

Then in recent years, Houston has suffered flooding from torrential rains more than once I believe.

 

[Zathras]

Thanks. I didn’t know that the other day.
After all if someone asks me if I have water in my refrigerator I don’t say yes and then hand them a glass of ice. [emoji23]

It was always my understanding- which is quite obviously limited on this subject- that more liquid water creates more moisture in the clouds and therefore more water etc etc.

The amount of water vapor the atmosphere can hold varies with the ambient temperature. Added heat increases evaporation as well. So while some areas experience more rainfall than others, other areas experience drought.

If you want to read up on it, here is a great primer:
https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/water-cycle-adults-and-advanced-students

 

[Pellice]

OK. The northern states will need to grow their own food too.

Why embark upon such an immense and titanic project when the problem is that the southwest is basically overpopulated for its resource base, and the much simpler and easier solution is for non-location-dependent businesses (and their employees) move out of very expensive California, Oregon, and Washington to other states that are happy to embrace them? And where traffic congestion is not a problem and where housing is much cheaper? Where water is abundant? Businesses move constantly. My niece's big employer just departed Cincinnati for Dallas. People are working remotely. Water is critical and a critical issue that isn't going away and won't be solved in the next 20 years. Why don't businesses figure this into their thinking?

 

[cathy63]

...
Would be a monumental engineering challenge, getting water over the Rockies.
...

Engineers have had water flowing under the Rockies from west to east for decades. If water from the midwest were used to supply Denver and other cities to the east of the Continental Divide, that would actually free up some water in the west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffat_Tunnel

 

[NW-Bound]

A few years ago, TX was in deep drought. Governor there actually had these big prayer events.

Then in recent years, Houston has suffered flooding from torrential rains more than once I believe.

Yes, I remember that some areas of Texas were in such severe drought that a town needed to have its water trucked in. Man, what is the cost of that?

Then, in just one or two rainstorms, the reservoirs got full again. Son of a gun!

Here's what I found about Lake Travis.

Serving principally as a flood-control reservoir, Lake Travis' historical minimum to maximum water height change is nearly 100 feet. In 2018 alone, it saw a 20-foot depth increase within a single 24-hour period of time.

During the 2010–13 Southern United States drought, levels went as low as 618 feet, making it the third lowest level ever... In April 2016, the lake returned to its full capacity at 681 ft.

 

[explanade]

Why embark upon such an immense and titanic project when the problem is that the southwest is basically overpopulated for its resource base, and the much simpler and easier solution is for non-location-dependent businesses (and their employees) move out of very expensive California, Oregon, and Washington to other states that are happy to embrace them? And where traffic congestion is not a problem and where housing is much cheaper? Where water is abundant? Businesses move constantly. My niece's big employer just departed Cincinnati for Dallas. People are working remotely. Water is critical and a critical issue that isn't going away and won't be solved in the next 20 years. Why don't businesses figure this into their thinking?

WHat's true is that a lot of the water usage is for lucrative crops and industry.

For instance, CA exports a lot of alfalfa sprouts to China and alfalfa farming is very water-intensive.

So is farming almonds, which brings a lot of cash.

A lot of CA farm land is owned by investor types, very rich and actual Wall Street investors.

Then there are industrial uses.

AZ is building big new semiconductor fabs, another water-intensive activity.

 

[NW-Bound]

Why embark upon such an immense and titanic project when the problem is that the southwest is basically overpopulated for its resource base, and the much simpler and easier solution is for non-location-dependent businesses (and their employees) move out of very expensive California, Oregon, and Washington to other states that are happy to embrace them? And where traffic congestion is not a problem and where housing is much cheaper? Where water is abundant? Businesses move constantly. My niece's big employer just departed Cincinnati for Dallas. People are working remotely. Water is critical and a critical issue that isn't going away and won't be solved in the next 20 years. Why don't businesses figure this into their thinking?

Some West Coast places are indeed crowded and congested. And yes, businesses should be moving elsewhere. I am all for it.

However, I don't believe the crowded cities are as big a water user as the agricultural users. You can move out the city dwellers, and the food growers do not get much more additional water.

 

[braumeister]

Engineers have had water flowing under the Rockies from west to east for decades.

Heck, they reversed the course of the Chicago River back in the 19th century. Just because something is challenging doesn't mean it can't be done!

 

[NW-Bound]

AZ is building big new semiconductor fabs, another water-intensive activity.

Yes.

TSM (Taiwan Semiconductor) is building a huge chip fab in north Phoenix. And earlier, I read about them almost running out of water in Taiwan to build chips. And Intel is expanding its plants here. What gives?

I searched the news, and read that the TSM Phoenix plant will use reverse osmosis to recycle the water. I guess that they plan on using abundant solar energy for the RO plant.

You can run the RO plant during sunlight hours, and store the clean water a lot cheaper than storing electricity in batteries.