California Water Restrictions

[Out-to-Lunch]

Heck, they reversed the course of the Chicago River back in the 19th century. Just because something is challenging doesn't mean it can't be done!

And just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean that it is a good idea!

 

[Bergamo]

WHat's true is that a lot of the water usage is for lucrative crops and industry.

For instance, CA exports a lot of alfalfa sprouts to China and alfalfa farming is very water-intensive.

So is farming almonds, which brings a lot of cash.

A lot of CA farm land is owned by investor types, very rich and actual Wall Street investors.

Then there are industrial uses.

AZ is building big new semiconductor fabs, another water-intensive activity.

Exactly. And CA has refused to build new reservoirs in decades. And yet we are told that WE have to conserve water or we will be financially penalized.

 

[ERD50]

Y ... What is unique about the LA Aqueduct is that it has a 12-mile section that is a closed pipe that siphons water over Sugar Loaf Mountain. The giant syphon operates on gravity and requires no pumping.

The above so-called Jawbone syphon still needed priming to start in the beginning. And if it runs dry, it will need priming again.

Wow, I wonder what they need to do to maintain that siphon? I've read that over time, dissolved gasses come out of solution (aided by the lower pressure as the liquid passes the peak of the siphon) and will rise to the top of the siphon and eventually break the siphon.

I think sometimes an air trap is used, and bled off occasionally, I guess feeding water in under pressure, as that point would be at a slight vacuum, you'd just suck more air in.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

Wow, I wonder what they need to do to maintain that siphon? I've read that over time, dissolved gasses come out of solution (aided by the lower pressure as the liquid passes the peak of the siphon) and will rise to the top of the siphon and eventually break the siphon.

I think sometimes an air trap is used, and bled off occasionally, I guess feeding water in under pressure, as that point would be at a slight vacuum, you'd just suck more air in.

-ERD50

Yes, there are always complications.

About the gas emanating from the water, if you keep the water flow fast enough, it will wash out that gas. Just some bubbles, that's all.

 

[yhoomajor]

Most of North East and cold mid-west is uninhabitable for humans, if not for the Fossil fuels and some nuclear power to heat their bums in long winter. Native Americans used wood burning to survive there. No, sun and wind won't cut it in the long winter.

Lot of native Americans lived in southwest, without major problems for thousands of years.

 

[yhoomajor]

Also, all the talk about technical challenges in moving water in pipelines over long distance is not rooted in reality. Hello - we have been shipping Oil in big pipelines over thousands of miles for decades. So its not a technical problem.

 

[NW-Bound]

Heck, they reversed the course of the Chicago River back in the 19th century. Just because something is challenging doesn't mean it can't be done!

And just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean that it is a good idea!

What's good or bad depends on your viewpoint, or rather where you live.

Here's an excellent animated video about this feat.

 

[Walt34]

Speaking of rain, the total precipitation in the US is not at all bad. The problem is that some places get way more than they want, mostly from hurricanes, while we don't get enough here in the West.

Yup. Why just yesterday the Governor of West Virginia declared a state of emergency in three counties because of flooding. We had a little bit of flooding (the creek out back overran the banks) but nothing major. The WV flooding that makes national news is mostly in the middle and southern parts of the state. They have some serious hills down there.

https://www.wsaz.com/2022/05/07/gov...mergency-three-counties-impacted-by-flooding/

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ And yet, people with too much water still don't want to share.

 

[mpeirce]

Also, all the talk about technical challenges in moving water in pipelines over long distance is not rooted in reality. Hello - we have been shipping Oil in big pipelines over thousands of miles for decades. So its not a technical problem.

Is anyone really willing to pay $100 per barrel for water? Or even $10 or $15...

 

[Chuckanut]

And just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean that it is a good idea!

Agreed. One way to get public support especially from environmentalists is to undo the damming of Yosemite National Park. It's time to remove the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park, and free the Hetch Hetchy valley.

IMHO, any project to build new reservoirs in California should include the removal of the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park. They might even get a lot of environmentalists to side with them if they promise to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural glory. That would make new reservoirs in less sensitive areas more palatable.

With apologies to a former governor of California - Mr. Newsom, tear down this dam.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Agreed. One way to get public support especially from environmentalists is to undo the damming of Yosemite National Park. It's time to remove the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park, and free the Hetch Hetchy valley.

IMHO, any project to build new reservoirs in California should include the removal of the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park. They might even get a lot of environmentalists to side with them if they promise to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural glory. That would make new reservoirs in less sensitive areas more palatable.

With apologies to a former governor of California - Mr. Newsom, tear down this dam.

Ha. I know you’ve referenced this a couple times before. And it has my full support FWIW. But that ain’t much. Good luck in your quest. It’s a battle lost a long time ago but you never know I suppose. Pre dam pictures of Hetch Hetchy sure do look beautiful.

 

[Turbo29]

Agreed. One way to get public support especially from environmentalists is to undo the damming of Yosemite National Park. It's time to remove the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park, and free the Hetch Hetchy valley.

IMHO, any project to build new reservoirs in California should include the removal of the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park. They might even get a lot of environmentalists to side with them if they promise to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural glory. That would make new reservoirs in less sensitive areas more palatable.

With apologies to a former governor of California - Mr. Newsom, tear down this dam.

I lived in the Bay Area when this was proposed. I don't recall a lot of support.

DAM-BUSTERS -- Washington Post

December 3, 1987
SAN FRANCISCO -- At the end of her tenure as mayor of this fermenting metropolis, Dianne Feinstein probably thought she had seen all the stimulation life could hurl her way. Then the telephone on her desk rang, and from across the continent in Washington the secretary of interior said he had a neat idea for turning off the city's water and electricity.
Well, not really. Without prejudging his idea -- which he stresses is only that, an idea, not a proposal -- this should be said: Secretary Donald Hodel is having Second Term Fun. His idea for dismantling a dam and draining Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the sort of thing that can only be thought in a president's second term, when fatigue has everyone feeling a bit flaky and they don't mind raising some dust.
The Hetch Hetchy water covers what once was a dazzling valley especially loved by John Muir, founder of the San Francisco-based Sierra Club. The valley would be the worse for wear after six decades under water, but Hodel rightly thinks it would be fascinating to watch nature restore it, as the slopes of Mount St. Helens are being restored.
Feinstein tartly calls Hodel's ''the worst idea since the sale of weapons to Iran.'' Hodel's Cabinet colleague, Secretary of Energy John Harrington, clearly thinks the idea is crackers because it would cost billions -- perhaps $6 billion -- to find alternative water supplies and new sources of electricity, the sale of which is important to San Francisco.

 

[ERD50]

Yes, there are always complications.

About the gas emanating from the water, if you keep the water flow fast enough, it will wash out that gas. Just some bubbles, that's all.

That's probably the case - I think the issue I read about was a pretty small system with only intermittent/slow flow, leaving time for the bubbles to congregate at the top of the siphon.


-ERD50

 

[jimbee]

Is anyone really willing to pay $100 per barrel for water? Or even $10 or $15...

Check the price of bottled water sometime.

 

[Chuckanut]

I lived in the Bay Area when this was proposed. I don't recall a lot of support.

DAM-BUSTERS -- Washington Post

December 3, 1987
SAN FRANCISCO -- At the end of her tenure as mayor of this fermenting metropolis, Dianne Feinstein probably thought she had seen all the stimulation life could hurl her way. Then the telephone on her desk rang, and from across the continent in Washington the secretary of interior said he had a neat idea for turning off the city's water and electricity.
Well, not really. Without prejudging his idea -- which he stresses is only that, an idea, not a proposal -- this should be said: Secretary Donald Hodel is having Second Term Fun. His idea for dismantling a dam and draining Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the sort of thing that can only be thought in a president's second term, when fatigue has everyone feeling a bit flaky and they don't mind raising some dust.
The Hetch Hetchy water covers what once was a dazzling valley especially loved by John Muir, founder of the San Francisco-based Sierra Club. The valley would be the worse for wear after six decades under water, but Hodel rightly thinks it would be fascinating to watch nature restore it, as the slopes of Mount St. Helens are being restored.
Feinstein tartly calls Hodel's ''the worst idea since the sale of weapons to Iran.'' Hodel's Cabinet colleague, Secretary of Energy John Harrington, clearly thinks the idea is crackers because it would cost billions -- perhaps $6 billion -- to find alternative water supplies and new sources of electricity, the sale of which is important to San Francisco.

Obviously, any new reservoirs would have to be used to replace the water SF gets from Yosemite National Park. The reservoir projects would probably take decades. Add in another 100-200 years for nature to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley.

When I was in Portugal I saw first hand how some people can plan for many generations in the future. The owner of a cork farm I toured was planting new trees. His grandchildren will make a few dollars from them, but his great grandchildren will be the ones who get the bulk of the harvest.

My main point is that restoring Hetch Hetchy for future generations would be a great WIN for environmentalists and nature lovers. Imagine two Yosemite Valleys in the park instead of one! That might be the WIN that gets more support for what will be a huge task on many levels.

Like my old grand pappy used to say, "The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago. The next best time is today."

 

[Koolau]

Obviously, any new reservoirs would have to be used to replace the water SF gets from Yosemite National Park. The reservoir projects would probably take decades. Add in another 100-200 years for nature to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley.

When I was in Portugal I saw first hand how some people can plan for many generations in the future. The owner of a cork farm I toured was planting new trees. His grandchildren will make a few dollars from them, but his great grandchildren will be the ones who get the bulk of the harvest.

My main point is that restoring Hetch Hetchy for future generations would be a great WIN for environmentalists and nature lovers. Imagine two Yosemite Valleys in the park instead of one! That might be the WIN that gets more support for what will be a huge task on many levels.

Like my old grand pappy used to say, "The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago. The next best time is today."

A guy I worked with at megacorp planted an entire farm field in walnut trees for his kids and grandkids. This must have been 40 (maybe 50) years ago. The stand of trees is still there and looks great each time I travel past on my way to the airport. It appears that they are growing straight and tall with few branches causing any knots. I don't know if the guy was envisioning lumber or veneer for his trees. I guess the future generations will decide. YMMV

 

[Bergamo]

Agreed. One way to get public support especially from environmentalists is to undo the damming of Yosemite National Park. It's time to remove the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park, and free the Hetch Hetchy valley.

IMHO, any project to build new reservoirs in California should include the removal of the O'Shaunnesy dam in Yosemite National Park. They might even get a lot of environmentalists to side with them if they promise to restore the Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural glory. That would make new reservoirs in less sensitive areas more palatable.

With apologies to a former governor of California - Mr. Newsom, tear down this dam.

Might be a good idea to build the new dams before removing the old dams. But then sensible planning is not something that we do in California it seems.

 

[youbet]

Wow, I wonder what they need to do to maintain that siphon? I've read that over time, dissolved gasses come out of solution (aided by the lower pressure as the liquid passes the peak of the siphon) and will rise to the top of the siphon and eventually break the siphon.

I think sometimes an air trap is used, and bled off occasionally, I guess feeding water in under pressure, as that point would be at a slight vacuum, you'd just suck more air in.

-ERD50

So, we should all pay off the mortgage before retiring, delay SS until 70, invest in divident funds and siphon our water? This FIRE stuff is getting so dang complicated!

 

[youbet]

Ice is frozen water which is why we call it ice and not water.
If I said the earth amount of water is always the same I would not include ice.
If I was including ice I would say water and ice.

Not exactly........

Water exists as liquid water, water vapor and frozen water. We have developed the habit of referring to liquid water (the form of water most of us are involved in on a daily basis) as "water."

Anyway, I'm sure no scientist (Chicago Public Schools '53 - '65 and lucky I can read and do basic arithmetic) but I think Earth has plenty of water. It's the amount of fresh water and getting it to where we need it that's the problem.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Not exactly........

Water exists as liquid water, water vapor and frozen water. We have developed the habit of referring to liquid water (the form of water most of us are involved in on a daily basis) as "water."

Anyway, I'm sure no scientist (Chicago Public Schools '53 - '65 and lucky I can read and do basic arithmetic) but I think Earth has plenty of water. It's the amount of fresh water and getting it to where we need it that's the problem.

Hey now- I’m the daughter, sister, and mother of public school teachers. [emoji23]
I went to a Catholic school and science is definitely not my strong suit so I appreciate the explanations.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

The real question is with all of these dams/reservoirs being so low on water that they are finding human remains—will we finally find out the location of Jimmy Hoffa? [emoji38]

 

[Sunset]

The real question is with all of these dams/reservoirs being so low on water that they are finding human remains—will we finally find out the location of Jimmy Hoffa? [emoji38]

And what fun to find out who people have been drinking

 

[Chuckanut]

The real question is with all of these dams/reservoirs being so low on water that they are finding human remains—will we finally find out the location of Jimmy Hoffa? [emoji38]

Right next to Judge Crater.

 

[aja8888]

The real question is with all of these dams/reservoirs being so low on water that they are finding human remains—will we finally find out the location of Jimmy Hoffa? [emoji38]

Jimmy is thought to be in the Medowlands, NJ under the football stadium. He liked concrete as a union guy.