Dating While Pursuing FI

[gwraigty]

Hopefully he’s not down to 1/2 a sandwich or 1/2 a microwave meal

Only when he sasses me!

 

[HighOnLife]

Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.

 

[Music Lover]

Before I went out on a date with my now-husband, I already knew that he drove used hand-me-down cars. Our first date was a movie and dinner at a modestly-priced restaurant. On our second date, I offered to pay for part of it. He refused to let me. I told him that we didn't always have to dine out. I was fine with renting a movie and ordering pizza in. So that's what we did on our second date. He'd bought a home a year earlier in an older part of a big city, not lavish, but not ghetto either. Small, less than 1000 sq. ft. He didn't even have a stove and was living mostly off of sandwiches and microwaveable stuff. None of this discouraged me. We've been married for 26 years.

Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.

P.S. My husband is no longer living on sandwiches and microwaveable meals.

I met my girlfriend when her friend brought her out to see my band. I didn't get a chance to talk to her much as I was busy playing and dealing with a bad PA between sets, but I did ask her out. Date 1 was a "meet and greet" that lasted 3 hours (which surprised both of us). Date 2 was a modestly priced dinner where we split the bill. After date 2 we both knew there was something there and I took her skating on the river for our 3rd date and then offered to buy her dinner.

Her response: "You don't have to spend money on me in a restaurant...why don't we pick something up at the grocery store, cook together, and then watch a movie on Netflix?"

The ones that are frugal will let it be known early and won't flinch when an inexpensive date is suggested. The goal early on is to find out about each other so meeting for a drink, a coffee, or a walk in the park is enough. I would never agree to a first date where is was expected that I'd drop big $$ on a dinner.

 

[Amethyst]

Are you only attracted to women who look great all the time? Because looking great all the time costs money, and the cost goes up as the woman ages.

Oh, and it takes time, too. Such a surprise to my first husband that I actually needed time to exercise - every day - to have that figure he so admired! He just thought it was something girls, you know, had.

 

[Maenad]

Are you only attracted to women who look great all the time? Because looking great all the time costs money, and the cost goes up as the woman ages.

I was going to come in to say this. It's like the idiots on Instagram talking about how much they love the "natural" look, and when they post pics of "natural" women all the women reading just lose it - we can easily see the makeup and elaborate hairstyling.

So, what kind of women are you attracted to? It's hypocritical to talk about how spendy women are when you turn around and criticize the frugal ones for looking frumpy when they don't spend $$$$ on cosmetics, clothes, and heels to make themselves look like what you want.

(To be clear, that's a generic "you".)

And Jeebus, guys, knock it off with the whole "Bitches, amirite?". Saying that the majority of women are spendthrifts is sexist and moronic, because I don't see you talking about men the same way. It's not a good look for you.

 

[braumeister]

Asking the right questions is important.

"So, how many dryer sheets do you go through in a typical month?"

"Do you know what the letters LBYM stand for?"

"When are you planning to take Social Security?"

"Are you going to finish those fries?"

 

[JustCurious]

Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.

I am a male in the dating pool, and I often think about the irony of women who look for a man with means and they judge men by the car they drive or the house they live in or how they dress, when in many cases those outward status symbols are a contra-indication of wealth. Instead they usually indicate someone who is living at or above their means and using debt to prop up their lifestyle. There are men out there like me who have real wealth but who live a modest middle class lifestyle and drive a modest car and live in a non-descript middle class house. I suppose living that way is effective to keep the gold diggers away, which is a good thing, but there's no way for a like minded woman to know that I am an LBYM type who has a plan to be FI by looking at me.

At the end of the day, although gold diggers really would like to find someone who has real wealth, what they really want is someone who is willing to spend money on them so that they can have a certain lifestyle. If he runs out of money, she can just leave him and find another man who is willing to keep the gravy train rolling. So really for a gold digger it's not about how much real wealth you have, but about how much you are willing to spend to keep him/her happy, and LBYM types who have real wealth but are not willing to spend at the level they require are not what they are looking for.

 

[Chuckanut]

Before I went out on a date with my now-husband, I already knew that he drove used hand-me-down cars. Our first date was a movie and dinner at a modestly-priced restaurant. On our second date, I offered to pay for part of it. He refused to let me. I told him that we didn't always have to dine out. I was fine with renting a movie and ordering pizza in. So that's what we did on our second date. He'd bought a home a year earlier in an older part of a big city, not lavish, but not ghetto either. Small, less than 1000 sq. ft. He didn't even have a stove and was living mostly off of sandwiches and microwaveable stuff. None of this discouraged me. We've been married for 26 years.

Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.

P.S. My husband is no longer living on sandwiches and microwaveable meals.

+1 Obviously, both of you are a prize.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.

Ummm, wow. Sounds like you view women as the enemy- going to be hard to have a relationship that way. No one in my group of friends talks about men that way- and I have never thought of a man in terms of a meal ticket.

On the other hand, my grandmother thought like you do- my granddad died when my mom was a baby. She educated herself and saved some money. My mom said she never remarried (though she was asked) because she was afraid a man would take what she had. She died alone- but she had a dog.

 

[ivinsfan]

Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.

Do the women of the world a favor and buy yourself a dog...

 

[GravitySucks]

OP.
It's not easy dating once you reach FI either.
Finding a compatible person in a limited geographic area that is unattached at the time you are. Getting all the variables to match up at once i is proving difficult.
While I don't seem to attract gold diggers i sure seem to attract a lot of broke women. I don't mind picking up the restaurant check, but I'm not paying for her airline tickets and the whole hotel bill.

 

[gwraigty]

+1 Obviously, both of you are a prize.

Thank you.

I hope it's helpful for the OP to hear these stories.

 

[haha]

Anyone, man or woman, has only 2 or 3 important things to ask themselves regarding this issue. Is marriage sometimes hard and expensive to exit? Does one or the other parties sometimes want to or need to exit? If so, are there nevertheless important reasons for me to get married and run these risks?

If you answer yes to all the above, not much choice, get married. If not, spare yourself this major risk. While it might not be a problem, many have found that it actually was.

Ha

 

[athena53]

OP.
It's not easy dating once you reach FI either.
Finding a compatible person in a limited geographic area that is unattached at the time you are. Getting all the variables to match up at once i is proving difficult.
While I don't seem to attract gold diggers i sure seem to attract a lot of broke women. I don't mind picking up the restaurant check, but I'm not paying for her airline tickets and the whole hotel bill.

I agree- finding someone who shares your financial priorities is difficult at any age, and it's KEY. I know this because my first husband was a financial train wreck and my second husband and I were on the same page financially: splurge on travel, live modestly otherwise. It saved a lot of fights.

Now, as a widow, I'm still cautious. I shy away from the on-line profiles of guys who "love fine dining" and like to hang out in clubs every night. I like to pay my own way and don't want to be picking up my half of $150 restaurant tabs all the time. I'm far from poor; I'm typing this from Edinburgh where I just spent $230 on 3 bottles of scotch- but I was too cheap to pay for an Uber to my Airbnb apartment and walked 45 minutes. In the rain!

In my profile I say that I want someone financially solvent and that I'm also financially solvent. My dates have all been modest- coffee or something similar. I don't know if you're doing on-line dating but there are positive ways to explain your priorities (I believe in living below my means so I can build for the future and am looking for a woman who feels the same way). The right woman will appreciate that!

 

[youbet]

Anyone, man or woman, has only 2 or 3 important things to ask themselves regarding this issue. Is marriage sometimes hard and expensive to exit? Does one or the other parties sometimes want to or need to exit? If so, are there nevertheless important reasons for me to get married and run these risks?

If you answer yes to all the above, not much choice, get married. If not, spare yourself this major risk. While it might not be a problem, many have found that it actually was.

Ha

Nicely said ....... I've been hitched for almost 50 yrs after marrying my highschool honey post college at 22 yo. So, I'm no expert on finding later-in-life relationships. But I've followed along with a couple of lifelong close buddies as they navigated these waters. Both struggled mightily as long as they were focused on finding Ms Right for marriage. Finally, both have settled into non-marriage relationships (one living with a kindred spirit he stumbled across and one having several lady friends) and seem happy that way. The gals in their lives are all pretty self-reliant, as likely to call them with an idea for a date as to be waiting by the phone for a call and seem to appreciate the advantages of having minimal encumbrances and entanglements.

OP is significantly younger than these guys, so that changes things somewhat. Still, your comments are right on. If the risks exceed the rewards, why marry when ongoing friendships and non-legal commitments will suffice?

 

[JustCurious]

I'm far from poor; I'm typing this from Edinburgh where I just spent $230 on 3 bottles of scotch- but I was too cheap to pay for an Uber to my Airbnb apartment and walked 45 minutes. In the rain!

It's funny, on the surface that sounds illogical, but I am the same way, I like to splurge on some things, especially travel, but I can be very thrifty about other things. I think the key is to find someone who matches up with you in terms of their spending priorities.

 

[ransil]

Maybe try
Fionly.com or FireOnly.com

 

[HI Bill]

At 47, I started dating the person who would later become my wife. I was ~90% of the way to FI. I was concerned about the potential impact of marrying someone with no resources, or who loved to spend money. As we dated, I found out she had paid cash for her new condo, and had some savings. She was frugal, and never once asked how much $ I was worth. I was living in a similarly-priced condo, and driving an Xterra. I found out when she divorced her first husband, she did not ask for alimony or a settlement. Naive, but refreshing. Anyway, I trusted her enough to marry her, and her having some assets (~25% of the value of mine) made it easier. In some states, I'd strongly suggest a prenup. My parents divorced near what would have been their 48th wedding anniversay.

 

[pb4uski]

I would think that if you are frugal then the activities that you do are for those who are frugally inclined and if you meet a woman who attracts your attention then that is a good start. Once you start to get to know her... how she earns, how she spends, how she lives and her interests, then it will confirm or deny the initial hypothesis of apparent frugality.

If things seem good after those two hurdles, then some casual talk of retirement saving and planning and debt might give you insights to decide whether or not she is a keeper.

 

[lhamo]

There is quite an active group of NYC-based people over on the MMM forums. They have regular meetups. Might be a good place to focus your networking.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Athena, that is beyond crazy.

 

[NYEXPAT]

or my favorite!

 

[socca]

So … in a developing relationship when is the earliest that you can get financially naked with your partner? Unfortunately, this is usually weeks or even months after getting physically naked. You don’t want to make a substantial investment of time, money, and energy in a budding relationship only to discover that your partner is a financial disaster. As others have pointed out, you can’t rely on external appearances as a gauge of financial health - there are lots of big-spending pretenders out there.

Fortunately, the situation isn’t as bad as it appears. If you share your near- and long-term financial plans with any potential partners early in the budding relationship, the women who don’t find “austerity today in exchange for early retirement tomorrow” appealing will hopefully exit stage-left, allowing you to pursue more compatible partners.

Good luck. It’s a jungle out there!

 

[athena53]

Athena, that is beyond crazy.

OK, Terry, you were right! I'm back at Edinburgh Airport for a flight to Paris and I took Uber. It was worth it! Will probably take the bus from the airport back to Waverly Station when I come back here, and walk to my apartment just for the exercise and the sightseeing, but when I head home I'm taking Uber back to EDI.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Are you only attracted to women who look great all the time? Because looking great all the time costs money, and the cost goes up as the woman ages.

Oh, and it takes time, too. Such a surprise to my first husband that I actually needed time to exercise - every day - to have that figure he so admired! He just thought it was something girls, you know, had.

This!!! And that luscious long blonde hair?? Unless its natural, a $lave to the colorist in both time and money. Tanned skin? Muscular upper arms? Nail extensions? Aesthetician? New designer seasonal handbags? Avg hetero male is not good at eyeballing this in the wild. Take a pic and phone a friend.