Daylight Saving Time Again!

[Aerides]

Passes the Senate 100-0, I think this passes. Yeah!! Hope the time shifts end.

Not so fast, this was a Unanimous Consent vote, which even some of the senators weren't aware was happening...It just means a floor vote in which no one objected. It absolutely does not mean that 100 Senators voted yes. It just means no one in the chamber at that time flagged No. UC either passes clean or goes to regular order, there's no middle ground. Not like a regular vote where say, 61-39, it passes.

Interesting piece on how it happened, and the Senate mechanics involved (without being particularly partisan):

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/daylight-saving-time-senate

 

[Music Lover]

Sorry. I have no time to explain this more. I am busy today sewing. I cut 6 inches off the top of my blanket and will sow it onto the bottom today so as to make the blanket long enough to completely cover me at night.

I don't know why that inaccurate analogy is used so often for DST. No one ever claimed there were additional hours of daylight created. If your feet are cold you move the blanket lower, you don't cut the top off and sew it to the bottom.

 

[JoeWras]

But, that would probably throw off things for working parents. School starting times have to take into account such things. That is why older kids get our earlier than younger ones, so the 15 year old can supervise the 9 year old in the afternoon before mom and/or dad gets home. Starting and stopping times are far more divisive than people think. Don't get me started on year around school. That discussion can bet nasty very fast.

Sorry. I have no time to explain this more. I am busy today sewing. I cut 6 inches off the top of my blanket and will sow it onto the bottom today so as to make the blanket long enough to completely cover me at night.

That's what I'm talking about with regard to blue collar workers too.

Everything is connected.

When the sun is coming up at 8:30, and schools adjust their time, well, then lunch and dinner need to be adjusted, and so on, and so on.

There was a reason DST came about. It was from a time when nobody sat at a computer and worked from home. WFH is great, but those in the WFH are creating a bubble from the rest of the world that needs to get out in the world and -- you know -- work.

 

[Turbo29]

I don't know why that inaccurate analogy is used so often for DST. No one ever claimed there were additional hours of daylight created. If your feet are cold you move the blanket lower, you don't cut the top off and sew it to the bottom.

They are claiming it now by implication. The bill that passed the Senate is called, "Sunshine Protection Act."

Permanent Daylight Saving Time is like cutting the blanket off at the top and sewing it on the bottom. It would make much more sense to go to permanent Standard Time and then let people adjust the blanket as they see fit. But then the politicians wouldn't be able to wrap the cloak (or maybe the blanket) of "Protectors of Sunshine" around themselves.

Along these lines: Fall Back? Spring Ahead? How About Neither, Experts Say.

 

[braumeister]

You stole my idea!! I'd put the 5/6 day break at the end of the year.

While you're at it, why not start the year with March, like the Romans did?

I've always thought it strange that September, October, November, and December (from the Latin roots meaning seven, eight, nine, and ten) have become the ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth months of the year.

Before anyone feels the need to educate me, I do know why it worked out this way.

 

[Rocket Man]

They are claiming it now by implication. The bill that passed the Senate is called, "Sunshine Protection Act."

Permanent Daylight Saving Time is like cutting the blanket off at the top and sewing it on the bottom. It would make much more sense to go to permanent Standard Time and then let people adjust the blanket as they see fit. But then the politicians wouldn't be able to wrap the cloak (or maybe the blanket) of "Protectors of Sunshine" around themselves.

Along these lines: Fall Back? Spring Ahead? How About Neither, Experts Say.

Agreed! If we are to stay on one time system permanently, standard time makes much more sense. People will not like going to work and school in the dark in winter. Not good!

 

[braumeister]

Seems to me that the daylight issue is utterly irrelevant at the Equator, and becomes more and more important the farther north you go. So Alaska and Scandinavia ought to be the models for what to do.

Sure enough, Scandinavia (and most of the rest of Europe) go on DST, just a couple of weeks later, and come off it a week or two earlier.

Based on that observation, I don't think any change in our DST habit is likely any time soon.

Interestingly, only Chile and Paraguay in South America use DST, and only part of Australia.

 

[Amethyst]

Your idea has been tried in the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar

Now that we’re making changes, how about fixing that pesky “months with different number of days” and leap year. It confuses everyone and people have to dedicate valuable brain space to remembering how many days in each month and then when to adjust for that leap year thing.

My solution is 12 months of 30 days each, and a variable period of 5-6 days not included in any month. It could be free days for everyone!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Now that we’re making changes, how about fixing that pesky “months with different number of days” and leap year. It confuses everyone and people have to dedicate valuable brain space to remembering how many days in each month and then when to adjust for that leap year thing.

My solution is 12 months of 30 days each, and a variable period of 5-6 days not included in any month. It could be free days for everyone!

Forget that. How about we stop the ridiculous pricing of gasoline? There is absolutely no good reason to be priced this way... $3.999

I would be very happy for DST to remain permanent. I really dislike it getting dark at 4:45pm in the dead of winter. Blah!

 

[Gumby]

I just want to be treated in a fair manner geographically. There are 360 degrees of longitude and 24 hours to divide up. That means every 15 degrees should be a new time zone. Starting at the prime meridian and moving West, that means every place from 0-15, 15-30, 30-60, 60-75 and 75-90 degrees of longitude should be in the same time zone. That means everything East of Philadelphia (at 75 degrees and a hair West longitude), including ALL of New England, should be in the same time zone as Halifax, Nova Scotia (at 63 degrees West), in what is commonly known as the Atlantic Time Zone.

But that is not the case, and we New Englanders have to suffer sunsets at 4 pm or so in December as a consequence. It's a load of bologna and we demand change!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I just want to be treated in a fair manner geographically. There are 360 degrees of longitude and 24 hours to divide up. That means every 15 degrees should be a new time zone. Starting at the prime meridian and moving West, that means every place from 0-15, 15-30, 30-60, 60-75 and 75-90 degrees of longitude should be in the same time zone. That means everything East of Philadelphia(at 75 degrees and a hair West longitude), including ALL of New England, should be in the same time zone as Halifax, Nova Scotia at 63 degrees West - in what is commonly known as the Atlantic Time Zone.

But that is not the case, and we New Englanders have to suffer sunsets at 4 pm or so in December as a consequence. It's a load of bologna and we demand change!

Your suggestion is important to us and we value your input. However, your suggestion is DENIED. Please re-submit in 90 days for further DENIAL.

In all seriousness that's a good idea but I doubt it will happen. At least in my lifetime.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, but the complaints are the usual anecdote (a child got hit by a car because it was still dark), that ignores all the other problems with the change.

And if we really need to address kids walking to school or the bus stop, how about the local municipality decide to start school an hour later? It makes more sense to adjust where required, than to throw everyone's common measurement off in a "one size fits all" fashion.

It would be like saying - we want our temperature measurements to be more near the center of the scale, these negative readings confuse people, , so in the winter months, add 40 degrees F to all the readings. That also ignores that temps don't change as much in the south, just as sunrise-sunset times don't change as mush as you get nearer the equator.

-ERD50

Unfortunately, anecdotal information is more likely to "win the day" than any logic or statistical analysis or even "will of the people." YMMV

 

[Gumby]

Unfortunately, anecdotal information is more likely to "win the day" than any logic or statistical analysis or even "will of the people." YMMV

Things have changed in the last 50 years. Around here, no kids walk to school alone. Either their parents walk with them, they drive them or they wait with them at the school bus stop. So that issue is a red herring

 

[Turbo29]

Things have changed in the last 50 years. Around here, no kids walk to school alone. Either their parents walk with them, they drive them or they wait with them at the school bus stop. So that issue is a red herring

Kids walk to school all the time here.

 

[Ronstar]

Things have changed in the last 50 years. Around here, no kids walk to school alone. Either their parents walk with them, they drive them or they wait with them at the school bus stop. So that issue is a red herring

Kids walk to school here, so DST does make a difference
here.

 

[braumeister]

Plenty of kids walk to school in my district. My guess is that it has a lot to do with how well your neighborhood is equipped with sidewalks.

 

[Aerides]

Things have changed in the last 50 years. Around here, no kids walk to school alone. Either their parents walk with them, they drive them or they wait with them at the school bus stop. So that issue is a red herring

My neighborhood is the same. While I'm sure some kids still walk to school, overall it's got to be less than the 70's nationwide. And still, if that's the only problem, there must be other solutions than having 350 million people switch their clocks twice a year.

Further, millions of commuters drive home from the office in daylight most of the year, but then in darkness for a couple of months. I'd imagine there is some data that demonstrates a higher rate of accidents in that period.

I've never been a good night driver, and used to make sure not to leave the office too late in the winter months.

 

[Time2]

Go metric?

No way! I don’t want to go to 100 minutes per hour.

Ya, but just think how much longer the day will be and how many more hours of DST! That's got to be a win.

 

[Time2]

Seems to me that the daylight issue is utterly irrelevant at the Equator, and becomes more and more important the farther north you go. So Alaska and Scandinavia ought to be the models for what to do.

Sure enough, Scandinavia (and most of the rest of Europe) go on DST, just a couple of weeks later, and come off it a week or two earlier.

Based on that observation, I don't think any change in our DST habit is likely any time soon.

Interestingly, only Chile and Paraguay in South America use DST, and only part of Australia.

Well then, as long as we are passing laws, let's force the Equatorial countries to give some of their daylight hours to Alaska and Scandinavia.
Hrumph!

 

[aaronc879]

This is one of those things that will never get a consensus agreement. I would prefer to have it permanent. I hate when it gets dark at 4P in the winter. I know that that would mean the sun doesn't rise until 9am some places but to me that is better than it getting dark at 4pm. If they got rid of it completely then it would be getting light at 4am in the summer. No thanks

 

[Time2]

I just want to be treated in a fair manner geographically. There are 360 degrees of longitude and 24 hours to divide up. That means every 15 degrees should be a new time zone. Starting at the prime meridian and moving West, that means every place from 0-15, 15-30, 30-60, 60-75 and 75-90 degrees of longitude should be in the same time zone. That means everything East of Philadelphia (at 75 degrees and a hair West longitude), including ALL of New England, should be in the same time zone as Halifax, Nova Scotia (at 63 degrees West), in what is commonly known as the Atlantic Time Zone.

It would be good for me! I live 0.5* on the West side of a timeline. That's a difference of 2 minutes on the sunset. But, I'm an hour behind the other side of the timeline. So it gets dark 58 minutes earlier than if I lived 29 miles East.

 

[street]

Kids walk to school here year around regardless of dark, light, winter, spring or fall.

 

[Philliefan33]

Seems like a good compromise would be to set the clocks midway between standard time and DST and be done with it. Of course unless the whole world agreed, the US would perpetually be 30 minutes out of sync with everyone else.

 

[6miths]

One possible solution to the 'going to school in the dark' problem is to begin school later. I was not happy when I went on exchange to a school district that started classes at 0800h as opposed to 0900h which was the norm for areas I had previously gone to school. I think there is reasonable evidence that children do better if they are allowed a bit more sleep in the morning. This seems even more relevant as our lives have seemed to shift later in the day, initially as we moved away from an agrarian society and then as more and more activities became available in the evenings.

 

[GenXguy]

I would be very happy for DST to remain permanent. I really dislike it getting dark at 4:45pm in the dead of winter. Blah!

Same here. I've always wanted permanent DST. And I sure wouldn't want permanent standard time - that would be worse than changing the clocks twice per year.