It’s time to reset the clocks once again

[misanman]

Well being tied to a clock for things like morning walks makes little sense to me unless you have other regularly scheduled early morning obligations that are clock dependent.

I admit that this is just a personal thing based on my own situation, and I doubt if anyone is really interested in those details. Having said that, why can't those that like DST just adjust their behavior so that we don't need to change the time? See analogous to me. Maybe a more significant issue is the school kids I pass who are standing out by the road in the dark waiting for the bus. Or maybe that's not really an issue either. Anyway, probably more cycles spent on this topic than it deserves.

 

[statsman]

If you have animals that rely on you in the morning then an hour one way or the other makes no difference. You won't be sleeping in the morning anyway.

While true, they operate in reverse. While people like to claim we lose an hour of sleep switching to daylight savings time, our cats haven't figured out how to read clocks. So, instead of tap-dancing on my head at 5:30-6am, they didn't bother me today until a bit after 7am.

I was well-rested this morning due to the fact that I spent some time in the yard yesterday, part of it dealing with Bermuda grass starting to creep into one of our shrub beds (where's that Pet Peeve thread at? ...), so I had gone to sleep early.

With the switch back to standard time, when we supposedly gain an hour of sleep, our cats don't care. Instead of the usual 5:30-6am wake-ups, they're pestering me at 4:30-5am, and it takes a few weeks to get them to stop that.

* - The times listed are approximate. Anyone who has cats knows that the wake-up calls can be and often are earlier in the morning.

 

[GenXguy]

What if we didn't change times but changed the time people start to work or go to school etc. to adjust their travels based on daylight?

Having said that, why can't those that like DST just adjust their behavior so that we don't need to change the time?

Well, that's sort of what I did when I switched from an 8:30 AM job to a 7:00 AM job over 20 years ago - it meant I would get off work earlier and have more daylight after work each day. No regrets, but I still prefer DST. I'm closer to retirement when it will matter a lot less to me.

 

[Lakedog]

Well being tied to a clock for things like morning walks makes little sense to me unless you have other regularly scheduled early morning obligations that are clock dependent. We frequently check sunrise and sunset times because our outdoor activities are driven by them. Different strokes…..

My lab expects our morning walks right around sunrise so our walk times vary considerably throughout the year. If I'm not ready to go, she makes sure I'm awake just before sunrise. Yesterday we were out around 6am, today it was closer to 7am.

 

[rk911]

Beyond being a minor annoyance, DST on or off doesn't matter much to me. The arguments I have seen (but not really studied) seem pretty trivial.

i totally agree with this. changing our clocks takes maybe 10-15 minutes. no biggie.

 

[statsman]

i totally agree with this. changing our clocks takes maybe 10-15 minutes. no biggie.

Most clocks now auto-adjust. Computers, tablets, smartphones, TVs, Rokus, security system, and our thermostats auto-adjust. Our Sony nightstand clocks have a DST button. About the only devices that don't auto-adjust are the vehicles and the microwave/oven, the latter of which will reset time anyway in the next power hiccup or outage.

 

[Samsung4321]

I actually got more sleep last night than usual.


For unrelated reasons, I'm actually losing about 3 hours per night on average vs. what I feel is the optimal sleep for me, but 2 hour more per night would be acceptable. I have made some positive progress. I went 2 nights straight with zero sleep once about a year ago and another time had zero sleep 3 out of 4 nights a while after. I haven't had that issue lately.

I have some blue light blocking goggles that block almost all blue light. I wear them if I'm going to look at any screens late. I think they help. There are some settings on phone and computer software I use that cut down on the blue light as well, but the goggles are superior for blocking it.

Chaotic sleep pattern. Precisely what arising at a fixed solar time (early daytime) is intended to dampen and anchor.

There are many influences that can disturb sleep but arising at a fixed early day time 'come-what-may' has a strong chaos dampening effect. The hormones involved are powerful 'natural drugs'.

For those whose circadian time is random or an hour or more out of phase with solar time arising at the optimal solar time (dawn) can feel awful and drastically affect performance for a few days. 'Jet lag'. For most (healthy) people the phase difference slew rate is several hours per day when shifting solar arising time.

 

[kgtest]

I kind of hope they make DST permanent.

Why? Not because I think it makes sense. But because I'm going to enjoy all the wailing and gnashing of teeth come winter when kids are out at the bus stop at 8AM in complete darkness. Should make good theater.

My kindergartener starts walking to the bus at 7:05 am. It's 2023! Kids are in school a LOT more then when I was a kid in the 80s. I had half day kindergarten.

 

[RobbieB]

I reset our clocks.

 

[Ronstar]

In my working days, we had numerous field crew people who worked 40+ hours a week outside. We adjusted their starting times 3 or 4 times a year based on available natural light for the season.

Worked for us - can’t see why others can’t adjust working hrs/ school hours according to the season rather than messing with the clocks.

 

[ERD50]

In my working days, we had numerous field crew people who worked 40+ hours a week outside. We adjusted their starting times 3 or 4 times a year based on available natural light for the season.

Worked for us - can’t see why others can’t adjust working hrs/ school hours according to the season rather than messing with the clocks.

+1

 

[JoeWras]

In my working days, we had numerous field crew people who worked 40+ hours a week outside. We adjusted their starting times 3 or 4 times a year based on available natural light for the season.

Worked for us - can’t see why others can’t adjust working hrs/ school hours according to the season rather than messing with the clocks.

Government red tape? Every parent thinks they know best? School board meeting complaints?

 

[CRLLS]

Government red tape? Every parent thinks they know best? School board meeting complaints?

Not to mention, trying to get all the necessary elements to work in harmony at the same time. Very difficult to make 2 workplaces, a few schools and more to make the same concurrent decision.

 

[audreyh1]

Not to mention, trying to get all the necessary elements to work in harmony at the same time. Very difficult to make 2 workplaces, a few schools and more to make the same concurrent decision.

Exactly!

 

[Telly]

My kindergartener starts walking to the bus at 7:05 am. It's 2023! Kids are in school a LOT more then when I was a kid in the 80s. I had half day kindergarten.

The bus for K & lower-grade elementary kids comes by here around 6:45 AM.

Some years ago, they inverted the starting times by age group, compared to what they were for [-]eons[/-] many decades. It used to be high school kids started earliest, and K and early elementary grades started last. But studies showed that teens really needed the sleep the most. So now the littlest ones start the earliest, and start times are staged later by age group.
Yup, it's changed a lot since I was a kid.

 

[JoeWras]

The bus for K & lower-grade elementary kids comes by here around 6:45 AM.

Some years ago, they inverted the starting times by age group, compared to what they were for [-]eons[/-] many decades. It used to be high school kids started earliest, and K and early elementary grades started last. But studies showed that teens really needed the sleep the most. So now the littlest ones start the earliest, and start times are staged later by age group.
Yup, it's changed a lot since I was a kid.

Oh yeah. I had to take the public bus to go to high school. I still remember my time to be at the bus stop: 5:55am.

 

[ERD50]

Most clocks now auto-adjust. Computers, tablets, smartphones, TVs, Rokus, security system, and our thermostats auto-adjust. Our Sony nightstand clocks have a DST button. About the only devices that don't auto-adjust are the vehicles and the microwave/oven, the latter of which will reset time anyway in the next power hiccup or outage.

And then there are the devices with a calendar in them that is out of date. If the dates for DST are changed, now the clock is wrong for the interim time, and you have two adjustments to do.

Yes, the actual act of changing the clocks is fairly trivial, but as I mentioned, there are other issues.

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

And then there are the devices with a calendar in them that is out of date. If the dates for DST are changed, now the clock is wrong for the interim time, and you have two adjustments to do.

Yes, the actual act of changing the clocks is fairly trivial, but as I mentioned, there are other issues.

-ERD50

I still have a timing device that uses the old algorithm. So now it is out of sync for a few weeks each year.

 

[CaptTom]

I like the idea of simply adjusting start times to the local season, instead of adjusting clocks. A simple, common-sense approach. In lots of industries, the workers in the field or on the factory floor work a different schedule than the folks in the office or back at the home office, often in another state or even country. We all figure it out.

But I also recognize it'll never happen. Some things do have to be synchronized. Banking and finance, federal offices, train schedules, all kinds of things depend on predictable work schedules. People whine about twice-yearly time changes now, imagine how many complaints we'll hear when everyone is doing their own thing.

The bottom line is we all have to agree in some way. In today's environment, each side is automatically against everything the other side says. Agreement on flexible schedules seems even less likely than agreement on DST changes.

 

[Music Lover]

I think keeping the DLS is a good idea for safety reasons. We have small children and they would be spending more time at the bus stop in the dark without DLS. The neighbors have complained that its too dark when the kids are walking on the street to the bus for part of the year. I agree. The more daylight hours we have while people are driving around, the better. People are NOT good driver's in the dark.

The reason that school boards exist is to make decisions based on doing what's right for the children.

If they can't handle something as simple as changing school hours (if required) for a change in DST then maybe they need to step down and let more competent people take over.

 

[MichaelB]

The reason that school boards exist is to make decisions based on doing what's right for the children.

If they can't handle something as simple as changing school hours (if required) for a change in DST then maybe they need to step down and let more competent people take over.

There is nothing simple about changing school hours. Transportation, after school day care, meals prep and delivery are just a few of the things that would be affected. Not to mention working parents needing to make arrangements before and after school.

 

[kgtest]

The reason that school boards exist is to make decisions based on doing what's right for the children.

If they can't handle something as simple as changing school hours (if required) for a change in DST then maybe they need to step down and let more competent people take over.

It's funny, back when I was in school I used to complain about having to wake up and be there so early (mainly in High School). Now that I am a parent, my kids have no problems getting to school this early in the morning. I will say that without DLS they would be going to school in the dark MUCH more than if we did not have it. We live in Minnesota so the amount of daylight is definitely relative to our Lat/long. So I would say the schoolboard is doing the right thing, given the circumstances. IF they did away with DLS, THEN the school board would need to act and likely change the hours kids are in school. IMHO kids are in school too much these days, but that has nothing to do with DLS.

I've heard and could be wrong that DLS was put in place so that farmer's could harvest as much crop in daylight as possible, allowing increased food production. Not sure if that is true or not, but if I was a farmer whose profits relied on an optimal amount of daylight, I might be in favor of DLS. To me, having to reset clocks and sleep-in, vs wake up early depending on which way we are shifting, is yet just a minor inconvenience that simply doesn't bother me much.

 

[Music Lover]

There is nothing simple about changing school hours. Transportation, after school day care, meals prep and delivery are just a few of the things that would be affected. Not to mention working parents needing to make arrangements before and after school.

It's not rocket science. People in places with no DST manage just fine.

 

[Music Lover]

I've heard and could be wrong that DLS was put in place so that farmer's could harvest as much crop in daylight as possible, allowing increased food production. Not sure if that is true or not, but if I was a farmer whose profits relied on an optimal amount of daylight, I might be in favor of DLS.

DST doesn't add any daylight.

Farmers don't care if the sun rises at 7:00 or 8:00. They get up when they have to and work as long as they need to.

 

[ERD50]

... I've heard and could be wrong that DLS was put in place so that farmer's could harvest as much crop in daylight as possible, allowing increased food production. ....

I can give some perspective on that!

My Dad was a farm boy, Mom was a city girl. My Mom thought that DST was done for the farmers, and my Dad said he always heard it was done for the benefit of people in the city!

I don't recall the reasons, it seems like farmers at that time would get up whenever they needed to get the work done, who cares what some set of gears, springs pendulums, and hands on a clock have to say about it?

-ERD50