eBay Responsibility Question

[TromboneAl]

I purchased some inkjet ink on eBay for $14 at the end of June, which hasn't arrived. The USPS tracking shows that the item was received at the sort facility, but that's the end of it.

The seller seems good, and has responded to my email, but before I go further, where does the responsibility lie? That is, seller can show that he shipped something that apparently got lost in the mail, and I can show that I haven't received anything.

Thanks.

 

[NW Landlady]

I can't totally answer your question, but I used to sell things as a reseller on Ebay & in some cases USPS can cause strange & unexplainable long delays in getting the package to the recipient. Especially if sent Parcel Post (rather than priority) which likely is how it was sent. My guess is they have it somewhere....!

I finally decided to send everything priority or better, it was more expensive shipping but a lot more reliable.

 

[73ss454]

Ebay will do nothing for you. I got ripped off once and after numerous emails Ebay didn't do a thing.

If the seller isn't going to help you then you won't get any help at all.

There may be some protection depending on the type of payment you used.

 

[RonBoyd]

(This is only a guess.) I would think the USPS bears responsibility for everything that happens to the package after they acknowledged receiving it (the Tracking Number). However, the USPS is not known for its concerns over slow delivery times.

I once had a package that I shipped Priority Mail that I thought had not been delivered -- it had been but the Mail Carrier failed to log it. Anyway, after two weeks I attempted to file a claim... I was told I would have to wait a minimum of 30 days before they would become involved in any search.

 

[Texas Proud]

ORRR...


It could be like a package I received... I had ordered something... well, really 4 different somethings... and I got two packages delivered... I just threw them on the table... a couple of days later I get a call asking that I send back one of them... I went and opened both packages to see if it was my stuff or not... mine was in one, somebody else's was in the other.

Seems that UPS delivered someone elses package to me... it was strange... there was a big printout with all those lines with someone else's name and address... but then a small one with my address.. so really two different addresses on the same package...

The UPS guy just came by a couple of days ago to pick it up... after three weeks...

NOW, you say this is the postal service... how can it be tracked if he did not send it priority or with return receipt.... maybe you have something saying you need to go sign for it... I have had them pasted to my front door before and not seen them (I go into the house via the back door)...

 

[TromboneAl]

The seller has 99.9% positive feedback & 5,000 ratings, and it's only $14 so I'm not worried.

You'd think that unless the package got mangled beyond recognition, some scanner somewhere would pick it up. Or else it fell into some crack or hole somewhere.

I've often found USPS tracking info to be useless. For example, I've had things delivered before the tracking info showed they were on their way.

 

[WM]

This is why we only use UPS for EBay stuff, buying or selling. We had a bad experience with the USPS and the package was eventually delivered but until then we hadn't realized how useless the USPS tracking system is.

If you think the seller is being honest, then it's not his/her fault that the USPS lost the package. If it was insured then that's a different story, and the seller should refund your money and file a claim with the Post Office.

I still wouldn't be shocked if it showed up at your house one of these weeks.

 

[RonBoyd]

If you think the seller is being honest, then it's not his/her fault that the USPS lost the package.

And a dishonest seller would be responsible for the actions of the USPS?

 

[CuppaJoe]

Off the point: to make a long story short, I no longer buy inkjet ink from private sellers. I buy new Canon tanks from Amazon. YMMV.

 

[bizlady]

Bottom line-- the seller is a business. USPS show it was mailed, but also shows it was not delivered.

Ask the seller to reship. If not...

1. If you used a charge card to pay for it, file a chargeback with your credit card company.

2. If you used Paypal, there is chargeback feature there- use it. They will take the money out of the account of the seller and ask for resolution. Will take up to 30 days, but you will get your money back.

 

[RonBoyd]

Bottom line-- the seller is a business. USPS show it was mailed, but also shows it was not delivered.

Ask the seller to reship. If not...

1. If you used a charge card to pay for it, file a chargeback with your credit card company.

2. If you used Paypal, there is chargeback feature there- use it. They will take the money out of the account of the seller and ask for resolution. Will take up to 30 days, but you will get your money back.

Let me ask it a different way: Why would one punish the Seller for the actions of a third party? The Seller delivered as expected.

 

[Westernskies]

Bottom line... USPS show it was mailed, but also shows it was not delivered.

An opposing viewpoint: The seller fullfilled their end of the transaction. If the buyer wanted to eliminate all risks from the transaction, he could have had opted for USPS insurance or requested another delivery method that provided positive proof of delivery. USPS is cheaper, and probably the most cost-effective way to ship a $14 ink cartridge, but it provides no assurance of delivery. At this point, it is up to the seller to decide whether he wants to replace it as a customer service gesture, IMO

Similar issue- the State of Arizona is shutting down their lucrative photo radar system today- not because the the cameras didn't work, but because mailing the tickets did not provide them with legal proof of delivery. People were just ignoring their photo radar tickets; without legal proof of service, the courts were forced to dismiss thousands of cases.

 

[bizlady]

Let me ask it a different way: Why would one punish the Seller for the actions of a third party? The Seller delivered as expected.

If you bought a $1000 item from Target, Sears or whoever, and they shipped it but it was not delivered, how would you view your purchase?

The seller essentially hired USPS to deliver the goods. And it appeared it did not happen. I would not "blame" the seller for the loss on USPS failure to deliver, but would expect them to get me my purchase.

 

[RonBoyd]

If you bought a $1000 item from Target, Sears or whoever, and they shipped it but it was not delivered, how would you view your purchase?

The seller essentially hired USPS to deliver the goods. And it appeared it did not happen. I would not "blame" the seller for the loss on USPS failure to deliver, but would expect them to get me my purchase.

I see. If things go wrong, shoot everyone in sight. I understand.

 

[Westernskies]

If you bought a $1000 item from Target, Sears or whoever, and they shipped it but it was not delivered, how would you view your purchase?

...from a great distance?

 

[youbet]

Generally sellers are acting as your agent when they deliver an item you purchased to the shipper. Once they deliver to the shipper, it's yours. If the shipper loses or damages the goods, seller should cooporate by supplying necessary info, but it's your lost item.

 

[Moemg]

Since I sell on ebay I can tell you the correct answer . The seller is responsible for the package arriving . If you have a delivery confirmation and it does not say delivered you can easily put in a claim with ebay or pay pal and win . I would wait two weeks since we had the holiday weekend which backs things up and then contact the seller I am sure he will refund your money or ship another one . If he does not I would open a dispute . Sellers are responsible for the item to arrive safely . The cost of insurance is now built in to the shipping . I just noticed that you have a delivery confirmation . They do not track the package they only show that it was delivered so yours is probably on the way .

 

[youbet]

I humbly concede to Moemg's answer. My experience was not Ebay, rather a substantial amount of shipping hobby related electronics, bought and sold on a variety of forums, back and forth. In those cases, the buyer chose the shipper, decided on insurance and paid for both. The seller delivered the item to the shipper and gave the buyer the shipping info. After that, it was up to the buyer to deal with the shipper.

The most contentious issues usually involved damage to the shipped goods when shipper claimed that the item had not been packaged properly. This led to many sellers insisting that buyer pay for professional packing.

Ebay seems to have developed its own particular conventions.

TAl - sorry for wasting your time. You're asking specifically about Ebay where I don't have a clue.

 

[Texas Proud]

I humbly concede to Moemg's answer. My experience was not Ebay, rather a substantial amount of shipping hobby related electronics, bought and sold on a variety of forums, back and forth. In those cases, the buyer chose the shipper, decided on insurance and paid for both. The seller delivered the item to the shipper and gave the buyer the shipping info. After that, it was up to the buyer to deal with the shipper.

The most contentious issues usually involved damage to the shipped goods when shipper claimed that the item had not been packaged properly. This led to many sellers insisting that buyer pay for professional packing.

Ebay seems to have developed its own particular conventions.

Glad to see that you changed your mind based on Moemg's response...

But I was very surprised that you would think that as long as a seller got it to a shipper their duty was done. I am sure one of the legal minds here will state the legal phrase... but I only try and buy from a place that has FOB delivery... I have bought online with a few places who state that they are not responsible if an item is lost... mostly like this $14 item... but I usually do not buy from someone who will not make sure I 'get' my stuff....


Did some research and maybe you are more right than my thinking in other transactions... per wiki...

'With the advent of e-commerce, most commercial electronic transactions occur under the terms of "FOB shipping point" or "FCA shipping point".'

Which would indicate that it is up to the buyer to 'choose' his shipping method carefully... now, what if they provide free shipping

 

[youbet]

Did some research and maybe you are more right than my thinking in other transactions... per wiki...

'With the advent of e-commerce, most commercial electronic transactions occur under the terms of "FOB shipping point" or "FCA shipping point".'

Which would indicate that it is up to the buyer to 'choose' his shipping method carefully... now, what if they provide free shipping

My past experience was more in line with the information you dug up on wiki. If I purchased an item from a distant seller, I'd specifiy the shipper and insurance level and I'd pay for that. The seller would deliver to the shipper and provide me with the shipping information. In today's electronic communication world, that information would probably be provided automatically via email by the shipper.

Years ago when I was a supervisor on a shipping dock we'd load the semi-trailer and the driver (common carrier) would sign the BOL and we'd seal the trailer together. I was acting as the buyers agent in turning the goods over to the common carrier. The common carrier was acting as the buyers agent in accepting the goods from me. When the truck pulled away from our dock, the goods were the buyers.

I think in some of the cases of large commercial shippers in the retail marketplace who provide free shipping, a contractual relationship exists between the seller and the shipper which covers the small percentage of damaged or lost packages.

But anyway, the answer TAl is looking for pertains specifically to Ebay, which apparently has some unique conventions set up. So I again apologize to him for taking up space on his thread with a moot point.

 

[Katsmeow]

I haven't sold for awhile on eBay but was surprised to see that the seller is now responsible for the package arriving. Back in the day when I sold I always offered insurance and it was my belief that the customer should obtain insurance if they didn't want to take the risk of loss. Some did and some didn't. I also offered multiple shipping methods. It really irked me when I selling books when someone would have something shipped media mail and then upset when it didn't arrive quickly (media mail is cheap but slow)....

 

[Westernskies]

Moemg, does eBay specifically require you as a seller to indemnify all your buyers against shipping losses, for any reason, including damage in transit? It may be good customer service to do so if you are selling small items, but what about someone selling something very valuable, yet inexpensive to ship like jewelry, or a watch? Normally, if the customer pays for shipping, title and risk pass to the buyer at point of sale. If the seller pays the shipping, title and risk pass at point of delivery. If you are required to operate under unique rules of conduct on eBay , I expect it would behoove you as a seller to choose a delivery method that would protect your interest in the goods in transit; not much of an issue with a $14.00 print cartridge; you could afford to replace one now and then if you encounter shipping losses or a buyer who just claims he/she never received the merchandise.

It would be interesting to see what would happen in the event of a major dispute , (i.e >$14.00 ) over undelivered merchandise. UCC statutes are pretty clear about where title to goods and risk of loss passes, for shipment of commercial goods , ie FOB, FCA, etc. Unless the seller specifically accepts responsibilty for the goods in transit up to the point of delivery (under the relevant UCC statutes,not eBay guidelines) it coud get sticky. With the advent of e-commerce, this will undoubtedly make an appearance in the higher courts, if it hasn't already. Throw international shipping into the mix , and now you have to comply with Incoterms, instead of UCC.

 

[Texas Proud]

Youbet... I do not think it is taking up space in TAls thread... because it does make a difference...

I had thought that it was 'upon delivery' for most... but it does appear that I was wrong... that if it was silent (and most are)... then it is yours when they ship... I had read about 'it is yours when we ship' on some sites... so I thought that they had to specify this... but I guess all they were doing was trying to head off the complaints when something did not arrive...

No pertinent to this thread since there is eveidence of it being shipped... but what if they just dropped it in first class mail... how do they prove they shipped


I bought something from a forum memeber on a different forum... he shipped a mirror for a car.... said he would ship and after I received the item I could send him a check... so it was his loss if it went missing... or if I were dishonest... I guess...

 

[RonBoyd]

No pertinent to this thread since there is eveidence of it being shipped... but what if they just dropped it in first class mail... how do they prove they shipped.

I haven't done it in awhile but USPS used to have some thing called "Certificate of Mailing" on which they put the Canceling Stamp imprint (w/date & Time along with the name/address of recipient) as your receipt. I don't remember there being a cost for this but (no doubt) that could have changed. I used it, for example, back when I mailed my tax forms late on April 15th to prove that I did, in fact, mail the 1040 on time.

 

[Moemg]

Ebay has changed the rules .A seller can not offer insurance for an extra fee . So most include it in the price or the shipping . High price items (anything over $250 ) has to be signed for to avoid any scams . I do a lot of first class shipping and I print the labels through ebay so delivery confirmation is only .19 and you need it if there is a dispute . I hope this answers everybody's questions .