Eliminating lectin from diet -- leading edge or scam?

[Badger]

Heard a podcast interview with Dr. Steven Gundry, MD, who was apparently a heart surgeon...

...Common foods with lectins are all grains and beans. And he says peanuts and almonds are beans but macadamia nuts are not so they're okay.

This is exactly one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to medical doctors for information on diet. I also don't rely (or consider them the definitive word) on them for prescription drug information. Yes they may have some idea from a couple of months of instruction on these but that in no way compares to the study and knowledge of a nutrition expert or pharmacist. There may be a handful of exceptions to this if they have taken advanced studies.


Almonds are NOT beans. They are seeds from the fruit. They are more related to Peaches and are grown the same way on a tree. The seed is inside the pit.



Dr Gundry needs to study up on his Botany.



Cheers!

 

[RAE]

This is exactly one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to medical doctors for information on diet. I also don't rely (or consider them the definitive word) on them for prescription drug information. Yes they may have some idea from a couple of months of instruction on these but that in no way compares to the study and knowledge of a nutrition expert or pharmacist. There may be a handful of exceptions to this if they have taken advanced studies.Cheers!

+1. In my experience, most medical doctors know very little about nutrition/diet. I don't know why anyone would expect them to be experts on the topic, as they get very little information on diet/nutrition in medical school. A lot of doctors are not up on the side effects of various prescription meds, either, as we've seen from some recent discussions on this forum. Do your own research before putting anything into your body other than real food.

 

[audreyh1]

This is exactly one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to medical doctors for information on diet. I also don't rely (or consider them the definitive word) on them for prescription drug information. Yes they may have some idea from a couple of months of instruction on these but that in no way compares to the study and knowledge of a nutrition expert or pharmacist. There may be a handful of exceptions to this if they have taken advanced studies.


Almonds are NOT beans. They are seeds from the fruit. They are more related to Peaches and are grown the same way on a tree. The seed is inside the pit.



Dr Gundry needs to study up on his Botany.



Cheers!

From what I saw on a different video, Dr. Guidry did not say almonds were beans. He did think macadamias were better.

 

[Fedup]

Macadamia nuts have lower ratio of Omega 6 per milligram than any other nut. I didn’t know walnuts are high in Omega 6, no wonder I don’t like to eat walnuts lately, they tend to go rancid much quicker than pecans. I like pecans better.

 

[explanade]

Actually I transcribed his words incorrectly.

I think he said peanuts and cashews were beans, not almonds.

 

[GrayHare]

In my experience if a dietary change is going to result in improvement, you'll start feeling the difference within a week, often even sooner.

About leaky gut, it sounds like one of those syndromes experienced by enough people to be both be real and have a common trigger.

As to the trigger, I'm wary when someone denies a theory without having an alternative, plausible theory of their own. For example,
Patient: "My symptoms are consistent with leaky gut."
Medical: "No, there's no such thing as leaky gut."
Patient: "OK, what is causing my symptoms?"
Medical: "I have no idea."

 

[audreyh1]

Actually I transcribed his words incorrectly.

I think he said peanuts and cashews were beans, not almonds.

Yes, I remember him talking about peanuts and cashews as being bad.

 

[Fedup]

Cashews are not beans, I think he’s dead wrong. It’s part of a fruit. But I didn’t know cashew nuts are good for your retina. I need to eat more of this nut. I used to avoid it because it’s so moorish, the more I eat, the more I can’t stop that kind of thing.

 

[audreyh1]

Cashews are not beans, I think he’s dead wrong. It’s part of a fruit. But I didn’t know cashew nuts are good for your retina. I need to eat more of this nut. I used to avoid it because it’s so moorish, the more I eat, the more I can’t stop that kind of thing.

I'm not sure that he said cashews were beans. But I think he did say they were very high in lectins.

 

[Fedup]

I'm not sure that he said cashews were beans. But I think he did say they were very high in lectins.

Post #30 wrote that.

So I went google for food with lectins and this doctor’s name popped up in this article.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php

Something about the night shade family. It’s true, I don’t like bell peppers ever, don’t like eggplant, my mom used to say this vegetable causes more trouble than it’s worth. I do eat an occasionable fresh tomato, but I like cooked tomatoes best, I think it’s has more lycopene and I like the taste. As for potato, I have avoided them, only recently adding them back, very small red or white potatoe, but never russet. Plus I soak all of my beans, otherwise I have gas.

Edit to add, in the article corn was also mention as food not to eat. I’ve known this about corn for years, in terms of nutritional value, it has very little.
So maybe he is onto something.

 

[explanade]

I'd hate to give up tomatoes. What about the Mediterranean diet?

Olive oil is approved but not tomatoes and only certain types of cheeses?

Not to mention pasta?

Obviously grains were instrumental in being able to have surplus of foods which could be stored, leading to wealth for ancient cultures.

Now if he wants to say that grains are bad for people in the modern context who want to maximize the greater life expectancy that we now have, that's one thing.

But they're a staple for billions of people, many of whom can't afford as much animal proteins as people who are well off. They either eat bread and rice or they don't eat at all.

Not that many of them in the developing world or many even in the first world could afford to always eat the approved foods on his list.


He must sell a lot of those Lectin Shields, if he could afford to quit being a heart surgeon.

 

[Fedup]

Our food supply is terrible. When I was in Europe, I can tell the difference. Their chicken was much smaller, less fat. Same with lamb, very young and tender. Here we have chickens that are washed with Chlorine. Lamb from Costco should be labeled Mutton. Chicken breast here can be woody, raise to have large breast. So I’m avoiding chicken lately.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd hate to give up tomatoes. What about the Mediterranean diet?

Olive oil is approved but not tomatoes and only certain types of cheeses?

Not to mention pasta?

Obviously grains were instrumental in being able to have surplus of foods which could be stored, leading to wealth for ancient cultures.

Now if he wants to say that grains are bad for people in the modern context who want to maximize the greater life expectancy that we now have, that's one thing.

But they're a staple for billions of people, many of whom can't afford as much animal proteins as people who are well off. They either eat bread and rice or they don't eat at all.

Not that many of them in the developing world or many even in the first world could afford to always eat the approved foods on his list.


He must sell a lot of those Lectin Shields, if he could afford to quit being a heart surgeon.

Well supposedly the Roma tomatoes used in Italy are lower in lectins, Plus the Italians remove the peel and seeds which further reduce the lectins. And cooking - more reduction. So according to the video I saw, if you must eat tomatoes, then that’s how to do it.

 

[sengsational]

Try watching this before you go to far down that path:https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gundrys-the-plant-paradox-is-wrong/

NutritionFacts.org is a website run by Dr. Michael Greger who is the author of several books promoting strict veganism as a cure for many ailments, so he's got an axe to grind against anyone who's saying a staple of his diet recommendations can cause health issues.

Yes - it seems far out, but it is becoming accepted. There have even been studies demonstrating how (or that) microbes in the gut can influence human behavior i.e. the brain.

I can identify strongly with what GrayHare was saying. Successful doctors look like they know what they're talking about when they don't. They're sure of themselves when they shouldn't be. There's WAY too much we don't know to be sure of anything. For more on how the things living in us and on us, consider this thread:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/the-microbiome-file-83601.html

 

[explanade]

I don't think it's Roma tomatoes on the bruschetta or salads.

Same thing when you have Greek or Spanish food.

Sure they make some sauces but a lot of salads with uncooked, unpeeled tomatoes.

 

[Fedup]

I would just eat sensible. I still eat corn, but I won’t think that I was on a healthy diet. To me it’s a version of junk food. So what I eat junk food, once in a while. Be aware that some fruit and vegetables are more helpful than not. So eat tomato, just not everyday. Same with lots of good vegetables, like broccoli, for years I eat them for the anticancer property, maybe too much, but lately I only eat them rarely. If you have thyroid problem, brassicas are vegetables you need to cook thoughroudly. My husband has trouble with it as he gets older, I never like the taste but eat it anyway. Now I have an excuse to not overeat it, even when it’s on sale all the time.

 

[ERD50]

...

As to the trigger, I'm wary when someone denies a theory without having an alternative, plausible theory of their own. For example,

Patient: "My symptoms are consistent with leaky gut."
Medical: "No, there's no such thing as leaky gut."
Patient: "OK, what is causing my symptoms?"
Medical: "I have no idea."

I have trouble accepting that logic.

It's OK to say "I don't know". A few hundred years ago, no one could provide germ theory as a cause for a disease/symptom, because germ theory was unknown. That didn't make alternative theories correct - they were still wrong.

Try this one:

Student: "I think gravity is caused by a big wad of bubblegum at the center of the Earth."
Physics Teacher: "No, there is no basis for that theory."
Patient: "OK, what is causing gravity?"
Physics Teacher: "I have no idea.
​

But you say that if the Physics teacher can't come up with an explanation, that makes the bubblegum theory correct? Not buying it.

-ERD50

 

[audreyh1]

I don't think it's Roma tomatoes on the bruschetta or salads.

Same thing when you have Greek or Spanish food.

Sure they make some sauces but a lot of salads with uncooked, unpeeled tomatoes.

Of course it depends, but when the Spanish use tomatoes on bread as in pan tomat, or for gazpacho, for example, they do peel and seed the tomatoes.

I thought Roma tomatoes were the more common variety in Italy, so why wouldn’t they use them on their bruschetta?

 

[Fedup]

Roma is paste tomato isn’t it? I buy tomato seeds from Gourmetseed and a lot of variety from Italy, not just Roma.

 

[audreyh1]

Roma is paste tomato isn’t it? I buy tomato seeds from Gourmetseeds and a lot of variety from Italy, not just Roma.

It’s just that elongated slightly pear shaped tomato.

 

[Fedup]

It’s just that elongated slightly pear shaped tomato.

I think it’s paste tomato, so it’s not going to salad or bruschetta. It’s most likely going to make sauce.

 

[LOL!]

Scam.

The glyphosate stuff listed in the OP doesn't make any sense unless one was drinking weed killer. There should be an enormous amount of bacteria in one's gut, so that there would never be enough glyphosate molecules around to interact molecularly with even 0.00001% of the bacteria. Since you poop out bacteria every time you poop, you can easily see (and smell) that the bacteria in your intestinal tract can replenish itself readily.

 

[sengsational]

I have trouble accepting that logic.

It's OK to say "I don't know". A few hundred years ago, no one could provide germ theory as a cause for a disease/symptom, because germ theory was unknown. That didn't make alternative theories correct - they were still wrong.

Try this one:

Student: "I think gravity is caused by a big wad of bubblegum at the center of the Earth."
Physics Teacher: "No, there is no basis for that theory."
Patient: "OK, what is causing gravity?"
Physics Teacher: "I have no idea.
​

But you say that if the Physics teacher can't come up with an explanation, that makes the bubblegum theory correct? Not buying it.

Saying "I don't know" isn't the problem. The problem is that the doctor is ignoring the fact that there are many other smart people in the world who have studied the leaky gut issue and believe it's a "thing". It's a judgement call on the doctor's part, and he/she is acting as if it's a 100% certainty (based on the wording in GH's post).

In your example, there appears to be one student that believes in the bubblegum theory. There does not appear to be scholars that agree with the student.

Perhaps a better parallel would be to pick a topic where the scientific community disagrees, and play that out.

Fringe Scientist: "I think there are 11 dimensions."
Other Scientist: "No, there are 4 dimensions."
Fringe Scientist: "OK, how do you explain the observations we have in quantum physics?"
Other Scientist: "I have no idea, but I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE there are 4 dimensions."

​

Wouldn't it be better for the Other Scientist to be less sure of him/her self if he/she had no other theory to explain the observations?

 

[ERD50]

Saying "I don't know" isn't the problem. The problem is that the doctor is ignoring the fact that there are many other smart people in the world who have studied the leaky gut issue and believe it's a "thing". It's a judgement call on the doctor's part, and he/she is acting as if it's a 100% certainty (based on the wording in GH's post).

In your example, there appears to be one student that believes in the bubblegum theory. There does not appear to be scholars that agree with the student.

Perhaps a better parallel would be to pick a topic where the scientific community disagrees, and play that out.

Fringe Scientist: "I think there are 11 dimensions."
Other Scientist: "No, there are 4 dimensions."
Fringe Scientist: "OK, how do you explain the observations we have in quantum physics?"
Other Scientist: "I have no idea, but I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE there are 4 dimensions."

​

Wouldn't it be better for the Other Scientist to be less sure of him/her self if he/she had no other theory to explain the observations?

I was only reacting to the logic that was presented in the post I responded to. It was not directed at the entire subject.

I'm with LOL! though, the idea that there could be enough residual glyphosate to be wiping out our gut bacteria in a detrimental way is extraordinary. And as Carl Sagen said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

And it really shouldn't be that hard to prove. Measure the residual amounts in our food, and test to see if that amount could have any effect on any bacteria in our gut.

-ERD50

 

[sengsational]

I'm with LOL! though, the idea that there could be enough residual glyphosate to be wiping out our gut bacteria in a detrimental way is extraordinary. And as Carl Sagen said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I also immediately thought that the Roundup thing, referenced in post #1, didn't pass the sniff test.