Families...and inheritance

[jollystomper]

My condolences to your loss. In my opinion there is no need to rush to actions. Sometimes one must have the patience to let emotions work themselves out before making decisions on inheritances.

After our mother died my siblings and I decided to not make a decision on the house for a year. One sister lived in the house with mom but she married after mom's passing and moved out. Mom had enough friends in the community where we were able to have folks check on the house periodically if we could not. It was probably easier as there are 7 of us. The house was not sold until almost 4 years after mom died, and the wait actually benefited all of us.

Some folks snowbird and leave there houses for 3-6 months and the house does not fall to pieces. I do not know how big your mothers house is nor how much land it is on. If you are willing to spend a little for a few months, that might be best for the long run.

Without a pressing financial need I would just recommend giving your sister time and not pushing it for now. I observed bad experiences on DW's side of the family with folks rushing to get things for financial gain after a death in the family. Not worth it, in my opinion.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

...
Without a pressing financial need I would just recommend giving your sister time and not pushing it for now. I observed bad experiences on DW's side of the family with folks rushing to get things for financial gain after a death in the family. Not worth it, in my opinion.

I don't think that's purely a function of delaying, though, I think it's dependent mostly on family dynamics, and acting on emotions rather than facts. I say that because my father held a huge grudge against his brother for delaying selling an asset (I want to say a stock, but it's irrelevant), saying it benefited his brother to his own detriment. I never quite figured out how that could work since they each inherited an equal share, and he was unable to explain that part to me either. To give you a fuller picture, when going through his papers I found hate mail addressed to him from a former neighbor.

Luckily, it sounds like Dd852 and their sibling are both mostly reasonable, or at least both assume good faith on the others' part, and so it might be best to let the sibling work out their feelings about the house, and you're right, the best way to do that in this case is for them to take their time. I also brought home some things from both my parents' places that I didn't keep, but for some things I had to bring them home and sort through what I felt I needed and what I felt I could give up.

 

[ncbill]

Sis buys out OP's half with equivalent funds in the estate or her personal funds.

As for "don't leave an empty house" I've recently dealt with one where it took months to get it ready to be listed (empty it out, fix what the estate could afford to fix) & then another half-year to sell...listed in the fall, I rejected a bunch of low-ball offers over the winter.

 

[pb4uski]

.... Some folks snowbird and leave there houses for 3-6 months and the house does not fall to pieces. ...

We snowbird and one of our two insurers actually requires that we hire someone to check on the house occasionally while we are away.... I pointed out to them that I can monitor the place via the internet and that wasn't good enough.

 

[Dd852]

Thanks to all. My sister now thinks she may spend real time there (her real apartment is tiny and the house is a true house). If she actually can manage a bi-coastal life, more power to her. So fine - as long as it isn’t empty and a hollow shrine, which just would seem wrong to me. The money / belongings in the estate are not material to me - I’m a card-carrying FIREr who never put a presumed inheritance into my plan. They are material to my sister whose circumstances are very different so I’m willing to just shrug over the value and will happily even pay my share of the running costs for a while until her actual use/plans become clearer. I appreciate the outside perspectives.

 

[Dash man]

Thanks to all. My sister now thinks she may spend real time there (her real apartment is tiny and the house is a true house). If she actually can manage a bi-coastal life, more power to her. So fine - as long as it isn’t empty and a hollow shrine, which just would seem wrong to me. The money / belongings in the estate are not material to me - I’m a card-carrying FIREr who never put a presumed inheritance into my plan. They are material to my sister whose circumstances are very different so I’m willing to just shrug over the value and will happily even pay my share of the running costs for a while until her actual use/plans become clearer. I appreciate the outside perspectives.

You’re a good man!

 

[retire48in2018]

That is a tremendous gift to your DS. I'm sure she'll really appreciate it.

 

[ivinsfan]

You are a nice sibling...your Mom would be proud..

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Thanks to all. My sister now thinks she may spend real time there (her real apartment is tiny and the house is a true house). If she actually can manage a bi-coastal life, more power to her. So fine - as long as it isn’t empty and a hollow shrine, which just would seem wrong to me. The money / belongings in the estate are not material to me - I’m a card-carrying FIREr who never put a presumed inheritance into my plan. They are material to my sister whose circumstances are very different so I’m willing to just shrug over the value and will happily even pay my share of the running costs for a while until her actual use/plans become clearer. I appreciate the outside perspectives.

Wow, that's wonderful. I feel like part of financial freedom/independence is being able to do things for others like that when you are so moved, instead of just wishing that they weren't facing a difficult decision.

 

[82-T/A]

My DM just died. What a miserable thing Covid has done to families and society. It was absolutely heartbreaking that she was so isolated and alone.

And now it is over.

DS and I are the only heirs. We see eye to eye on just about everything, except the family house and its contents.

Neither of us live within several thousand miles of it or have any plans to move back to the old hometown.

I have no sentimental feelings for it and would happily see it all disappear... if it weren’t for DS who is incredibly attached to it and everything in it. So far I’ve agreed to table any decision for a year or so, but what do you all suggest? Just say “it’s all yours, you deal with it as you like”? Continue to keep it as a shrine, with all the associated costs, until she decides to let go? Push to clear it out and sell it?

I’m ok to postpone a decision for a while, but it really seems not just wasteful but downright dangerous to leave it empty (but to keep up the upkeep and utilities to avoid it simply rotting away and collapsing)

Anybody have anything similar?

I apologize for being frank and totally forthcoming, but I think it's probably the most helpful here for you. First things first, I'm sorry for your loss... I hate losing family members. I unfortunately do not know what DM and DS means. I assume DM to mean mother, and DS is sister?


What I will say is that I have been on the benefit-end of your situation. The last two homes I've purchased, were from families that refused to agree to sell the home after their mother (sole remaining parent) passed away.


In both instances, the mother died in hospice (either at the home, or in the hospital), and the siblings refused to agree to sell the home. In the end, the home fell in disrepair, and sat vacant for two years. Both times, the home was already paid off (no mortgage), but the families NOW had to pay for the annual property taxes, and the insurance. In both cases, with the home sitting vacant, the roofs ended up leaking, and appliances stopped working, and the least of which was a complete overgrowing of the front and back yards.


All of these things led to a dramatically lower home price, which meant that I could come in and buy them at an exceptionally lower price.Both homes, I purchased for almost half of what the neighbor's house was worth.


Before anyone thinks I'm a sleazy home flipper (nothing wrong with that anyway), these were both homes I lived in. The first one was my first home, and it afforded me the ability to live in a neighborhood that was totally outside my normal price range. I restored it over 10 years. Then I kept that house and moved to another state and bought another house in the same situation. This allowed me to buy in a REALLY nice neighborhood with a home that needed everything. I renovated the entire home in the span of 1-2 years with me doing all the labor. I plan to move again, and I will be looking for a similar home, and this time I will sell that other home, getting almost 40% equity after owning the home for only 3 years.




So, I know this can be frustrating, but keep in mind that this is what you're going to eventually have to deal with. Unless someone intends to move back into the house and live there... it's going to go from being an asset to a liability literally overnight. There is now no one watching the home. If the washing machine, dishwasher, or fridge spring a leak... guess what, it's going to flood your home and destroy your floors (tile, wood, whatever). There are bugs just waiting to build nests in your home, and possibly termites, unless you start paying for an exterminator to routinely take care of the place. Insects and rodents will start intruding on a home the minute they identify that there's no activity there.



My advice... you need to convince your sister... or you guys need to come up with a plan on how you're going to pay for it all...


e.g.

- Lawn care
- Exterminator
- Property management
- Taxes
- Insurance


That will realistically come out to (at a minimum) probably $600-700 a month? And that's assuming that nothing changes and you don't have to fix anything. Hope it's worth it.

 

[Scratchy]

I love my sister too but would not agree to the arrangement your sister wants.

It is clearly one sided as she alone benefits with no compensation to you.

There does not seem to be an end point (or maybe I missed this).

Besides the home potentially decreasing in value, it is a liability to you. You could be sued as an owner for something that occurs there.

Finally, it is my belief that arrangements like this are a recipe for destroying relationships.

Nevertheless, your sentiments are admirable and I do hope it works out OK.

 

[ivinsfan]

I love my sister too but would not agree to the arrangement your sister wants.

It is clearly one sided as she alone benefits with no compensation to you.

There does not seem to be an end point (or maybe I missed this).

Besides the home potentially decreasing in value, it is a liability to you. You could be sued as an owner for something that occurs there.

Finally, it is my belief that arrangements like this are a recipe for destroying relationships.

Nevertheless, your sentiments are admirable and I do hope it works out OK.

All he said was he was willing to have some patience while his sister works though some feelings about the house. Your answer seems way over the top.
Mom just died did you need to have it settled tomorrow?

 

[Scratchy]

Mom just died did you need to have it settled tomorrow?

No that's not what I said. Calm down.

 

[ivinsfan]

No that's not what I said. Calm down.

Well you talked about destroying relationships, which seems early in the game here. In my mind it's more likely to destroy a relationship when you aren't open to talking about how to settle things. Give it some time.

I see you did the selective quote here as well.

 

[Scratchy]

Well you talked about destroying relationships, which seems early in the game here.

It's not early at all to caution about that in the context of an inheritance.

My reply to the OP was my perspective and offered in an effort to provide helpful advice based on my experience. Unlike your replies, which are argumentative and actually over the top in their attempts to distort and dramatize what I said. You can have the last word. I'm not going to respond to you any more. Now I know what the ignore button on this website is for.

 

[ivinsfan]

It's not early at all to caution about that in the context of an inheritance.

My reply to the OP was my perspective and offered in an effort to provide helpful advice based on my experience. Unlike your replies, which are argumentative and actually over the top in their attempts to distort and dramatize what I said. You can have the last word. I'm not going to respond to you any more. Now I know what the ignore button on this website is for.

Back to the OP that lost his Mom and has one sister who he gets along with and loves. Do what you feel is kind, you won't be sorry. Hopefully your sister is as reasonable as you and you can continue to be there for each other.

 

[Dd852]

Thanks all. Many good points. I certainly don’t want to be the cause of arguments here. A lot of this is my fault - my mother died a week ago tomorrow and my mind went immediately to “I really don’t want the liability for half the house “. That obviously was the wrong thought at the wrong time, although at a certain point it might be the right thought. I think if we give it 6 months to a year then things will be much clearer - how realistic is it for my sister to want to hold on? How sure am I that I want to cut ties to the old home town? How much is it costing us, actually? What is the covid situation like? What is the market like? Would her half help her become an owner instead of a renter in the place where she actually lives? There are certainly logical and good answers to these questions - but probably not answers that come immediately to mind a week after the death. I’m a do-er and a decider by nature and having planned the funeral I wanted to plan the future! I need to chill a bit. And I will.

 

[82-T/A]

Well you talked about destroying relationships, which seems early in the game here. In my mind it's more likely to destroy a relationship when you aren't open to talking about how to settle things. Give it some time.

I see you did the selective quote here as well.

I don't think it's appropriate to criticize him for his opinion. The OP asked for advice, and he gave his opinion.




My opinion, emotions are just that... emotions. I cry at the drop of a hat... a sad story, a sad movie, the National Anthem, or even a muscle car with a big engine doing a burnout... all reaches me in different ways that result in emotions. So I have empathy.


But when difficult decisions need to be made, emotions are totally counter-intuitive.


Holding the house for a year /absolutely/ is a bad thing.


As we all saw now, the OP decided to just give the house and everything to the sibling out of the goodness of her heart. Money can make people do strange things, but in the end the OP really took the high road, which most of us might not have done.



But the problems still remain for the new homeowner. The sister will now have to figure out what to do. If she doesn't move into it as planned, the home will deteriorate... and someone like myself would end up profiting from it.



For me personally, I wouldn't give more than a month for the sister to grieve. A home cannot be allowed to sit. People have to learn to deal with their emotions, or the emotions become crippling and cause my problems.



I was raised by a mom who fled a dictatorship in Argentina in the 1960s, and a father who was literally born in a shed because the NAZIs had taken the family home and used it as a field hospital. My dad was one of 6 and very abrupt and to the point (along with his stern Dutch accent). I learned very quickly in life that you need to just pull up your pants and make decisions, no matter how difficult or challenging they are.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks all. Many good points. I certainly don’t want to be the cause of arguments here. A lot of this is my fault - my mother died a week ago tomorrow and my mind went immediately to “I really don’t want the liability for half the house “. That obviously was the wrong thought at the wrong time, although at a certain point it might be the right thought. I think if we give it 6 months to a year then things will be much clearer - how realistic is it for my sister to want to hold on? How sure am I that I want to cut ties to the old home town? How much is it costing us, actually? What is the covid situation like? What is the market like? Would her half help her become an owner instead of a renter in the place where she actually lives? There are certainly logical and good answers to these questions - but probably not answers that come immediately to mind a week after the death. I’m a do-er and a decider by nature and having planned the funeral I wanted to plan the future! I need to chill a bit. And I will.

There are no wrong thoughts when you suffer a big loss. And it just depends on the people involved. I've lost all 4 parents and in-laws and that involved a bunch of sibs and sibs in law on both sides. No two people handled their feelings in the same way. I was trying say bad things can happen if you wait..ie house burning down, getting sued, etc. and bad things can happen if push things with deadlines and such. A lot of those bad things that happen if you push it are damaged relationships that hurt everyone involved,,

Come down on the side of human kindness and you will feel at peach with whatever ends up happening with Mom's house.

 

[ivinsfan]

I don't think it's appropriate to criticize him for his opinion. The OP asked for advice, and he gave his opinion.




My opinion, emotions are just that... emotions. I cry at the drop of a hat... a sad story, a sad movie, the National Anthem, or even a muscle car with a big engine doing a burnout... all reaches me in different ways that result in emotions. So I have empathy.


But when difficult decisions need to be made, emotions are totally counter-intuitive.


Holding the house for a year /absolutely/ is a bad thing.


As we all saw now, the OP decided to just give the house and everything to the sibling out of the goodness of her heart. Money can make people do strange things, but in the end the OP really took the high road, which most of us might not have done.



But the problems still remain for the new homeowner. The sister will now have to figure out what to do. If she doesn't move into it as planned, the home will deteriorate... and someone like myself would end up profiting from it.



For me personally, I wouldn't give more than a month for the sister to grieve. A home cannot be allowed to sit. People have to learn to deal with their emotions, or the emotions become crippling and cause my problems.



I was raised by a mom who fled a dictatorship in Argentina in the 1960s, and a father who was literally born in a shed because the NAZIs had taken the family home and used it as a field hospital. My dad was one of 6 and very abrupt and to the point (along with his stern Dutch accent). I learned very quickly in life that you need to just pull up your pants and make decisions, no matter how difficult or challenging they are.

I don't think he decided to give the house to the sis just yet which is fine.

Emotions are the fabric of family and need to be given a lot of consideration IMO. And that's not me bashing you. That's me offering a counter opinion which I thought was acceptable.

 

[ATX78701]

I'm sorry for your loss.

My DB and I inherited in 2010 everything in my grandmother's house and two small bank accounts. At the time, DB wanted absolutely nothing from the house...not even a knick knack - only the money. As I was super close to DGM and he wasn't, I held a resentment for a long time against him. "How DARE he NOT take something from the house?!"

Since then, I've learned that possessions are just that - possessions - and I can still have the memory even if it means not holding on to the antiques that were never my style. It was a lot of growth for me and I gave my apology to my DB.

Our DM is our last living relative now. DB and I now see now eye-to-eye, and when DM passes everything gets sold including the house even if at a discount rate. Neither of us want stuff anymore. I'm glad that I'm in this position with him.

For your situation and not knowing more than you shared, I wonder if a weekend at the house with your DS might go a long way to avoid a similar resentment from her towards you? You guys can share memories and have a warm fuzzy feeling type of connection. Plus you can also see the condition of the house and possessions if it's been awhile since you were there.

Good luck!

 

[jollystomper]

Thanks to all. My sister now thinks she may spend real time there (her real apartment is tiny and the house is a true house). If she actually can manage a bi-coastal life, more power to her. So fine - as long as it isn’t empty and a hollow shrine, which just would seem wrong to me. The money / belongings in the estate are not material to me - I’m a card-carrying FIREr who never put a presumed inheritance into my plan. They are material to my sister whose circumstances are very different so I’m willing to just shrug over the value and will happily even pay my share of the running costs for a while until her actual use/plans become clearer. I appreciate the outside perspectives.

A good approach. Some may raise the issue of how much you trust your sister, but only you can evaluate that, and it seems that you have a good relationship.

We trusted our sister to do what our parents wanted to do with the house when it was sold, even though it was just verbal and her name was on the title. In the end, the biggest argument we had was how much extra we felt she should get as did did more for our parents and time maintaining the house before it sold. First she didn't want anything more, then after arm twisting she wanted less than we wanted her to have, so it took a while to resolve. Those are good arguments to have .

 

[Souschef]

When my mother passed away, the only asset she had left was her condo. It was in a trust, and my sister was to inherit it.
Upon reflection, she EARNED it! She was physically much closer to mom (NY-FL) vs (CA-FL) and handled all her finances and interaction with agencies, insurance companies and doctors.

 

[zaqxsw]

I have not read all of the posts, beyond page 1.

My experience:

My sister was the executor of the estate and asked if I could handle selling the house. No issues with the estate money or the contents. My wife and I spent many days during a summer getting it ready to sell. At that point, I asked my sister if she recommended a local real estate agent, as she lived in the town my mother's house was in, and I didn't.

She responded that she needed to handle it, to settle some old emotions. I said fine.

Two years later, I asked if she was going to do it. She stopped taking any phone calls from me and would not respond to any types of communication. I paid her a physical visit, being understanding (a mistake), which then let her off the hook with her immediate family who had been hounding her to handle the estate.

The visit did get her to hire an estate attorney, thank God. The attorney asked the probate judge to accept her resignation after another year. The judge ordered a meeting where he gave my sister 30 days to list the property. She didn't. He held her in contempt of court, and the house was sold that month.

I've been estranged from my sister ever since.

 

[NeverBored]

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. My mother died unexpectedly in late September, and my DB and I have been through a situation close to yours. We met at the house (neither of us lived in town) and spent about five days cleaning out a very cluttered and falling-apart house. We ended up hiring a company to dispose of the remaining contents after we took out paperwork, photos, etc. It took a few months to work out the details (grief takes time), but my brother decided he wanted the house. Our probate attorney did the paperwork and DB paid me approximately half of the home's value (in its poor state) and I waived my rights as an heir. DB is remodeling the house, living in it, and seems very happy. I was happy to be free of the burden of the house. DB and I have become closer during the process.

Take your time; it's all part of a process.