Given Notice, How to Negotiate

[dak2018]

Walk to HR and hand them your resignation. The secrecy plea from your boss is suspect, and the attempted guild trip is totally bogus. I would still stay for two weeks from the initial date of your resignation, but not an instant more without some incentive - and that incentive would need to be in writing, have clear conditions, and be signed by someone higher up the food chain than your direct boss. I would also insist on an HR rep signing it as well.

Do not under any circumstances agree to anything open ended or worded like "upon satisfactory completion of blah blah blah". You need a date certain for the payout.

Note also, that you will have the option of COBRA coverage even if you quit. While that is costly, it might not be too bad if you are over the subsidy limits for ACA coverage.

 

[donheff]

OP - HR is part of management. They just reiterated your boss' request in nicer language. Now you are in an ambiguous situation were you will feel stressed and unsure of how to proceed. But you are still in the driver's seat if you really care about what happens. You advised your boss that you were retiring with the date subject to discussion. Now discuss it for Pete's sake.

Decide what the heck you want and send it to your boss in a memo. "To accomodate your wishes I am willing to extend my employment to x date provided you agree in writing to do y. If this is not agreeable, my retirement will take place on z date per my initial notification." CC HR. I agree with previous comments that it sounds like you are afraid of your boss. You are FI, they no longer control your life.

 

[zekeboz]

OP - HR is part of management. They just reiterated your boss' request in nicer language. Now you are in an ambiguous situation were you will feel stressed and unsure of how to proceed. But you are still in the driver's seat if you really care about what happens. You advised your boss that you were retiring with the date subject to discussion. Now discuss it for Pete's sake.

Decide what the heck you want and send it to your boss in a memo. "To accomodate your wishes I am willing to extend my employment to x date provided you agree in writing to do y. If this is not agreeable, my retirement will take place on z date per my initial notification." CC HR. I agree with previous comments that it sounds like you are afraid of your boss. You are FI, they no longer control your life.

+1

 

[DINKFIRE]

I agree with many of you that it is unlikely the HR would make much difference. However, since my boss hasn't been proactive moving this discussion forward (he's been bombarding me with questions about my various projects over the years, but haven't discussed with me at all about the exit plan and severance), at least the HR did schedule a call today to go over what they think my boss want, and what I want.

They want me to stay on until end of June, and help them with hiring replacement. In exchange, the local head of HR indicated that they'd prorate my next year bonus for the months I would stay. I almost laughed. When I told them my equity compensation are not vesting, they said, of course since you are not staying until when they vest. I told them I did calculate the prorated amount worth and I want that to be included. HR said they need to consult with their boss. I also asked for extra three months of health insurance paid by the company, and no more 24/7 on call for anything my boss wants. They said they'd talk to my boss and their boss and find out what they could offer.

It was a bit frustration, so I offered at the end of the call, that I'm confident we could transfer my responsibility to internal/external resources we already have, and that way they don't need to pay more, and I get to leave in two weeks. The HR seems to prefer that option if they could convince my boss.

 

[mystang52]

I agree with many of you that it is unlikely the HR would make much difference. ...............
It was a bit frustration, so I offered at the end of the call, that I'm confident we could transfer my responsibility to internal/external resources we already have, and that way they don't need to pay more, and I get to leave in two weeks. The HR seems to prefer that option if they could convince my boss.

DINKFIRE: Here's some tough-love advice. Just tell them you don't see this working out to a mutually happy result, and your retirement date of 3/XX/21 is now set in stone.
As an aside, I am flabbergasted at the dilly-dallying/hemming-hawing/non-committal comments coming from HR and your boss. It is extremely telling and should be a LOUD signal to you that it's time to just leave.

Edit: HR does not have to convince your boss about anything if you just set the firm retirement date.

 

[Aerides]

They want me to stay on until end of June, and help them with hiring replacement. In exchange, the local head of HR indicated that they'd prorate my next year bonus for the months I would stay. I almost laughed.

Yeah that's basically nothing. They would owe you that prorated bonus in a RIF situation. They are basically saying stay longer, we keep paying you the same.

I do wish you would have laughed. I would say stick to your guns there is no upside to staying aside from continuing a paycheck. The same as if you'd said nothing and then just left in June.

 

[CardsFan]

Yeah that's basically nothing. They would owe you that prorated bonus in a RIF situation. They are basically saying stay longer, we keep paying you the same.

I do wish you would have laughed. I would say stick to your guns there is no upside to staying aside from continuing a paycheck. The same as if you'd said nothing and then just left in June.

As one that earlier advocated a softer response (depending on circumstances) it certainly appears the circumstances do not warrant a softer response. Put me in Aerides' camp. Give them a firm date. If they REALLY want you to stay, because they REALLY need your help, they will counter with something. If it was just the boss wanting an easier way out, you will get no counter. I expect the latter.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

If you're that valuable, you deserve a golden parachute to ease your departure.

 

[MRSPOCK]

If you like your employer, get some cash for the trouble (in writing) otherwise leave in 2 weeks

 

[NXR7]

It doesn't seem reasonable to require an open ended resignation, and he did not offer any additional compensation for me to stay on for longer than two weeks.

Something else is going on that you are not aware of.

Maybe it's excessive turnover negatively impacting your manager and he does not want another one on his record.

Maybe there is a reorg or a takeover in the works where you were either going to pick up a lot more work or where you would work on the reorg, such as the department shutting down. Or where management was going to lay you off but on their timetable.

Did they have any expectation or understanding that you were slowly on your way out? Or did you spring this on them entirely unexpected?

If nothing else, ask your manager what he/she would do if you got hit by a bus tonight or just died unexpectedly. Then consider telling them to go do what they would have to do in that situation.

Good luck,

Ray

 

[Jerry1]

Given Dinkfire’s last post was a few days ago, it would seem an update is needed. Heck, given his last update, he should be about a week away from retiring.

 

[DINKFIRE]

Sorry I haven't updated for a few days, there's really not much progress made, unfortunately.

I requested a call with my boss last Friday and got one scheduled on Monday afternoon. I walked him through all the projects need to be transitioned and my recommendations, and summarized everything in a document. Then we discussed the need for me to stay and proposed compensation.

He insisted that I should give at least two-month notice because 1, it's my professional courtesy, and 2, his predecessor who retired gave the company 6-month notice. He said he understand I want to get out, but he was afraid the vacuum created by my departure could significantly increase risk of things falling through cracks. On the other hand, since my equity compensation is for long-term incentive, the company's position is not negotiating it upon voluntary departure. He thought prorated bonus I would earn next spring over the period of my extension is a nice gesture, and he might consider increase it a bit to cover my insurance cost.

I sensed that there's not much room to negotiate a retention bonus that I would accept, so I focused on pushing our my projects ASAP so that I can get our soon without jeopardizing the company. I requested a follow-up call with HR today. In the meanwhile, he told me he'd discuss transition with the rest of the team and let me know by end today what the outcome is, I'm still waiting as I type.

He's position is at least two levels about me and is consider the senior leadership of the headquarter, It doesn't seem fair to compare me to his predecessor.

I will get to HR this week and officially lock down my last day at the end of this month, which is still three-week notice. I'm willing to answer their questions for the first few weeks in April but that's it. Only other option is I keep one or two projects and only work on them for the month of April in exchange for full pay plus his suggested "bonus".

 

[tpkinsl]

try what my friend did - send an email "this is confirming my last day at work will be (the day they told you.) After this, I will be available at a consultant, at a rate of $275/hour with a minimum of a 5 day commitment."

wordsmith it to meet your situation.

 

[Aerides]

Predecessors or your boss's opinion are pretty irrelevant here, as is company health. Hold firm, pick your date and stick with it - sounds like they are just playing mind games.

 

[NXR7]

I will get to HR this week and officially lock down my last day at the end of this month, which is still three-week notice. I'm willing to answer their questions for the first few weeks in April but that's it. Only other option is I keep one or two projects and only work on them for the month of April in exchange for full pay plus his suggested "bonus".

That's the beauty of retirement, eh? You don't care if they will not give you a good recommendation to another employer.

FWIW, I had a similar situation but not a similar reaction. I lead the bank's operational cybersecurity team for years, a hands-on position. I offered to answer questions and take calls for as long as necessary but that was a verbal offer.

My manager did his best to get his people to work through issues on their own but when it became a time crunch he had them call me since the remaining people were far less experienced. I had worked on developing and implementing so many of the protections that it seemed a reasonable gesture to me to allow them to call as needed.

I got some calls over the first year and then it tapered off. My manager offered to pay me but I told him no, that I didn't mind. And I didn't.

Ray

 

[travelover]

You gave your 2 week notice one week ago, so I'd start cleaning out my desk and plan on leaving on the 23rd. If they want to extend you, they will if you accept the terms, otherwise goodbye.

Trust me, they will survive without you. If they didn't think so, they'd be offering cash instead of jerking you around.

 

[youbet]

I will get to HR this week and officially lock down my last day at the end of this month, which is still three-week notice. I'm willing to answer their questions for the first few weeks in April but that's it. Only other option is I keep one or two projects and only work on them for the month of April in exchange for full pay plus his suggested "bonus".

You bounce back and forth between wanting to leave ASAP and wanting to stay for a bit longer and receive your normal compensation plus some severance package. Which is it?

You're free to leave anytime you want so that ball is in your court. If you want to go, go. Simple.

If negotiating some incremental compensation/benefits (on top of normal pay) for staying beyond 2 weeks notice is important to you (and you sound like it is), you'll need to craft a package of "I'll do this and you'll give me that" items without having it sound like blackmail.

If you're wondering why your management isn't issuing a quick and crisp response to your request for negotiations, remember that any situation like this is unique and any response they make will likely set a precedence. And since the situation seems to have become antagonistic, they are also likely wondering what standard they can put in place to measure whether you've kept your part of the bargain before they dole out the incremental goodies. I'm sure that just staying until some extended date isn't the measurement they're looking for.

 

[piccolopat]

HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss. .

I also think the open end date is problematic but Dinkfire can always submit another notice in a few weeks if a reasonable extension offer is not forthcoming. If that happens, I would include a firm date with perhaps an offer of some part time work at full time pay and benefits for a specified period of time not to exceed "X" number of weeks. Dinkfire owes them nothing but the 2 weeks notice in the handbook but it's always nice to go out on good terms in case the future changes and you want or need options to reenter the workforce.

 

[youbet]

Predecessors or your boss's opinion are pretty irrelevant here, as is company health. Hold firm, pick your date and stick with it - sounds like they are just playing mind games.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Aerides, but leaving on his date is already his choice to make. I think he's trying to use the pain his rapid departure would bring as a chip to gain a severance package or benefits of some type.

 

[Aerides]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Aerides, but leaving on his date is already his choice to make. I think he's trying to use the pain his rapid departure would bring as a chip to gain a severance package or benefits of some type.

Of course it is, but reading what he said his boss is telling him would make it feel like maybe they (the company) are trying to tell him it's not. And since he gave two week's notice to his boss on 3/5, and here we are 11 days later, it doesn't sound to me like they are very serious about a good faith incentive. So that's why I said mind games.

 

[pb4uski]

.... He insisted that I should give at least two-month notice because 1, it's my professional courtesy, and 2, his predecessor who retired gave the company 6-month notice. ...

Professional courtesy my ass.

Unless you are C-suite or under an employment contract then anything over 2 weeks is a gift from the employee to the employer.

While he has no right to insist, he can insist all that he wants... and you can just ignore his insistence. I think that I would tell him, HR and anyone who wants to listen that I tried to be reasonable but the company was not reasonable, so my last day is March 31 and leave it at that.

 

[steveark]

Hey, I'd demand a severance that is very generous. You have very little to lose. Or a large raise. I retired after decades at one company but I requested and received a severance based on years of service equal to what a layed off senior employee would have gotten. Even though retirees don't get severance, I did.

 

[youbet]

Of course it is, but reading what he said his boss is telling him would make it feel like maybe they (the company) are trying to tell him it's not. And since he gave two week's notice to his boss on 3/5, and here we are 11 days later, it doesn't sound to me like they are very serious about a good faith incentive. So that's why I said mind games.

There's no incentive. He retires on his date and walks out. There's no good faith - bad faith discussion. It only gets complicated when OP wants to negotiate some sort of severance package with his chip being staying to finish up some so-called important projects.

Of course his employer wants him to stay and tidy things up and ensure a smooth transition. He'd do that if they pony up some rewards for doing so. They're left trying to decide what precedence's they want to set by making offers to him. It get's ugly.

I've been on both sides of that desk. OP should just leave. Missing out on a little extra FIRE gravy won't be a big deal.

 

[youbet]

Professional courtesy my ass.

Unless you are C-suite or under an employment contract then anything over 2 weeks is a gift from the employee to the employer.

While he has no right to insist, he can insist all that he wants... and you can just ignore his insistence. I think that I would tell him, HR and anyone who wants to listen that I tried to be reasonable but the company was not reasonable, so my last day is March 31 and leave it at that.

+1

Other than the fact that OP, I think, actually wants to negotiate some treats for staying and finishing some stuff up, I agree he should just leave. I'm really confused about all the confusion regarding what to do.

OP needs to make up his mind. He's perfectly free to just skip on down the road at his own discretion.

 

[retire-early]

Unless the OP is really that indecisive and a semi-pushover, it increasingly seems that he is hoping that they are willing to give him $$$ for him to stay.
It never looked like the manager was going that direction from the start of this, so he needs to get on and just retire with the 2 weeks notice.