Given Notice, How to Negotiate

[Jerry1]

it would be my professional courtesy to stay

To this I would point out that the policy is two weeks and that is the only professional obligation you have. As for courtesy, I’m sure you would be given no such courtesy if they were intent on getting rid of you.

It doesn't seem reasonable to require an open ended resignation

It’s not!

What would you do in this situation?

Since you asked, I would communicate very courteously that you relied on the company’s policy while you were planning your retirement and that you intend on retiring in the very near future. I’d let them know that you’re willing to consider any offer they’re willing to make but that just extending your current situation is not something you’re open to. Then sit back and see what they offer. Make sure you give them a few days but let them know you will be submitting your paperwork to HR per the company policy.

This is the negotiation process. The goal is to see if they’re even interested or capable of putting something worth your consideration on the table. If not, you’re gone - per policy, no looking back. If so, counter with a stretch goal. The rest is up to you and them to come to some terms you’re both happy with. Good luck.

The good thing is that you can’t lose. Either you start your new, retired, life in a few weeks, or, you work out a nice arrangement to finish off your career. Recognize that this is no time to get greedy. Go for that proverbial win win.

 

[Dash man]

My DW arranged her retirement skillfully. She offered to stay six months with three weeks vacation included, paid full salary for a year with bonus and stock option/restricted stock grants going with her when she left. We were also in their medical plan for the whole year.
Me, I gave three months notice so I wouldn’t leave my team in a pinch. But I did take three weeks vacation in that time. Most of my team followed me a few weeks later. They did hire my replacement in time for me to train her within that time.

 

[OldShooter]

IMO there may be some tone deafness here. Note the supervisor is in a different country. Cultural factors to be considered here? Negotiating in American style may not be the best strategy.

 

[pb4uski]

Second thought... tell your boss that you were trying to be accomodating but since they are not that you will be leaving in three weeks and just want to give him the heads up that you are notifying HR as well... if he doesn't like it then he can fire you and you are fine with that too.

They don't call wealth FU money for nothing.

 

[Bamaman]

I didn't like to hear the boss say to stay away from HR. And that they needed you to stay until they found a replacement--and then stay long enough to train the "new guy." It's all so open ended.

In many technical fields, finding new employees ready to step into a very demanding, new job is very difficult--and also very time consuming. And to stay back long enough do training is an unreasonable request. You could spend the better part of the year working when there are other enjoyable things you could be doing.

I'd give them a date set in stone that you'll stay until. And then hit the door.

Note: Anytime employees at my MegaCorp gave a resignation notice, they'd call you in later in the day and tell you to go ahead and leave. They decided in 2008 that all employees 55 and older or 30 years on the job were expendable, and we were given 1 day's notice. Didn't hurt my feelings one bit as they paid out the nose to send us to the house. It was just their way of doing business and not personal.

 

[Dtail]

Hand in your resignation to HR with YOUR end date for your employment at will situation.
Do you wish to ever do any consulting work with them; if not you are completely in charge.
I don't have contact with anyone from any former job in retirement and like it this way and I enjoyed my career.

 

[Exchme]

This is where I'd email HR, cc my boss, and their boss: "As we discussed on 3/4, I offered you my two week's notice...in lieu of any offer of significant additional compensation, my last day will be 3/18." and then I'd laugh and laugh and laugh some more.

ETA: if they do consider more money for more time, understand that might come with more unpleasantness if your boss is already this bent out of shape. If he's asked to do a pay-to-stay, he might make life a bit uglier for the duration. And do NOT do some open ended thing like "until we find a replacement" but # of weeks, a date. They will squander 90% of whatever the time is, so don't make it very long at all.

Yes, this is the right approach. Mention in your note that the boss wanted you to stay longer and you would be willing to discuss a retention package, but that it needs to be worked out in time as you understand it takes HR some time to process people in case no mutually agreeable retention package can be worked out.

That gets your notice in writing to HR while leaving the option open for your boss to offer a retention package.

In my w*rking years, when folks were quitting to go to other firms, I sometimes made counteroffers, but if they were big numbers, I had to get approval, so I told the folks to keep an open mind and let me work up something. If the person was particularly important, we would "love buzz" them from every angle with all kinds of managers coming forward to show their appreciation. So my guess is that if your boss was considering a retention package, he would have said so and you would know it by now. Instead he seems to think bullying you into staying will work. Your note should be respectful, factual and get the ball rolling one direction or other.

 

[donheff]

Sounds like you are ready to go, but will hang on a short while if paid handsomely.

I would not communicate with the dark side (HR) at all until they schedule your exit interview.

I would document your retirement in an email to your boss and a cc: to his boss. Be sure to mention your last work day, 3/19 (2 weeks). Then end it with, “I am available after 3/19 on a contract basis at _____ (fill in the blank with more than you really want). For example, 1.5X, 2X, or 2.5X what you make now.

That should get them to the negotiation table! Remember, they will negotiate down from your proposal, so go bigger than what you want.

Be aware, this could lead to you being walked out the door, but I doubt it.

Given the situation and the boss' response, I like this approach. There is no obligation to "go to HR" to give notice. You are free to leave any time you want. Notice to your boss is a courtesy. Go to HR if there are post employment benefits that need to be coordinated or applied for. That said, I was happy to work in a situation where I felt appreciated and was comfortable giving several months notice. That was a courtesy on my part toward an organization that hand been good to me.

 

[pb4uski]

Please keep us posted on how this plays out for you. BTW, you boss sounds like an a$$hat.

 

[pacergal]

Big red flag to me that your boss wants HR to stay uninformed!
If you are ready to retire and nothing would keep you there, then email HR, cc your boss, with date of retirement/last day of work.
If you wish to continue/consult/train next person, then email HR, cc your boss with date of retirement and offer of how long you would be willing to stay as consultant(with rate of pay) to train next person.
You are retiring, you are in the drivers seat, as long as you are following employee manual that stated 2 weeks notice.

 

[DINKFIRE]

Thank you all for the suggestions and helpful insights.

I guess every company is different. Back when I first joined the company, HR negotiated hard on my starting pay, and my first boss (I have three bosses over the years) told me he pushed hard on higher pay but HR held the power.

Anyhow, I spoke with HR yesterday, and they appeared to be willing to negotiate. I understand that there are a lot to do and I'm willing to work out a plan that benefits the company and me as well, but I told them I don't expect to extend my end date by more than a couple of months. I also mentioned I might need to reduce my hours during the extended period.

HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss.

I don't believe culture difference is an issue here, as my boss is with our headquarter company in a different country, within the same US time zone and very similar culture as US.

At this point, at least my resignation is known and documented. Only my boss, the head of our local company and HR know about this. The company I work for in recent years has laid off many workers, and recent layoff of several individuals were not communicated at all, they simply disappeared without saying goodbye or letting us know why. Rumor said they received fair severance.

 

[mh]

It’s best to just submit your two weeks notice to HR I think if you don’t see coming back. Dancing around with this guy will lead to nothing good most likely from the sound of it. Just go by the HR book that’s why they are there

 

[braumeister]

HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss.

WADR I think that was a mistake. Leaving it open ended takes the pressure off them.

 

[Brat]

This discussion highlights the importance of succession planning, a management responsibility. Succession planning should happen for all key positions and for hard to replace skill sets.

Their failure to plan is not your responsibility

 

[travelover]

WADR I think that was a mistake. Leaving it open ended takes the pressure off them.

I agree. In my experience, companies are terrible about finding replacements and with no deadline they are even worse.

 

[Jerry1]

HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss.

WADR I think that was a mistake. Leaving it open ended takes the pressure off them.

I agree. In my experience, companies are terrible about finding replacements and with no deadline they are even worse.

Yes, but all he has to do is wait a week (or so), and if there’s no movement, just send a final letter, referencing the original letter, with a firm date on it. I’d for sure put them on a short leash.

 

[HarveyS]

Send a follow up letter, with a firm date. You can always withdraw the firm date, or negotiate past it. But give them a deadline or you'll be disappointed when they don't act and drag you along.

 

[Koolau]

One small practical note: I would remove from the premises EVERY scrap of personal belongings that I wanted to keep. That way, you won't find yourself with security looking over your shoulder as you clean out your desk - with your co-workers looking on in fear and/or loathing. I had to stand there with security as two of my terminated employees emptied their stuff into boxes. It was humiliating for them (even though they caused their own downfall which is NOT the case here). I felt like the Lord High Executioner to folks I liked and had shared much with over the years. Their exit was appropriate, but the process was brutal. Don't let that happen to you if you can avoid it. Just a thought so YMMV.

 

[cooch96]

He replied that because my job responsibilities is extensive and complicated, it would be my professional courtesy to stay until they hire someone to replace me, and after I train the replacement, then I can communicate my end date.

My immediate question would be something like, "So, if I stay on, what do you propose for my Training-Replacement bonus?" I'd also likely open my fat mouth further and inappropriately add "And it better be darn Generous." So you're smart to get wise suggestions before responding.

 

[zekeboz]

Skimming this thread and this scenario the OP is dealing with is unbelievable.

You want to leave so leave... You have been more than accommodating with their wishy washy approach and they have not gotten off their asses to find a replacement.. That is not your problem to solve!

You already answered the questions that I was going to suggest as a gut check with your 1st post wanting a leave with the customary 2 weeks. It sounds like there is no need for further review of you mental, financial, insurance needs spouse, etc. state. All systems are go but the company has this ball and chain around your neck.

So go... life is waay too short to keep on playing this game your manager / company is playing with you. Believe me it is a game in trying to either squeeze one more project out of you or looking to delay the new hire for the next quarter to make numbers etc... Again this is not your issue but theirs... I know because I have been on the other side.

I am really surprised more folks aren't suggesting you stick to two weeks and be done with it so you can enjoy your freedom!

 

[Aerides]

Yes, but all he has to do is wait a week (or so), and if there’s no movement, just send a final letter, referencing the original letter, with a firm date on it. I’d for sure put them on a short leash.

Exactly. If the undated letter is ignored or not taken as a call to action, then OP can easily follow up a week from now, to the effect of "If I wasn't clear, unless you have a serious counter offer, my last day will be MM/DD."

I think engaging HR is fine, and different companies do have different cultures on this. I did. And I know my boss never got wind of that conversation.

 

[skipro33]

Since you planned to retire after two weeks and told your boss, simply stop performing after two weeks. Keep accepting the pay checks if they send them. Sooner or later, they'll realize you retired at the end of your two week notice and stop sending you checks.

 

[pb4uski]

Yup. If the continue to be obstinate the send a follow-up letter with a date certain or just stop working and see how long it takes them to figure it out.

 

[mystang52]

Skimming this thread and this scenario the OP is dealing with is unbelievable.

You want to leave so leave... You have been more than accommodating with their wishy washy approach and they have not gotten off their asses to find a replacement.. That is not your problem to solve!

You already answered the questions that I was going to suggest as a gut check with your 1st post wanting a leave with the customary 2 weeks. It sounds like there is no need for further review of you mental, financial, insurance needs spouse, etc. state. All systems are go but the company has this ball and chain around your neck.

So go... life is waay too short to keep on playing this game your manager / company is playing with you. Believe me it is a game in trying to either squeeze one more project out of you or looking to delay the new hire for the next quarter to make numbers etc... Again this is not your issue but theirs... I know because I have been on the other side.

I am really surprised more folks aren't suggesting you stick to two weeks and be done with it so you can enjoy your freedom!

+1 This scenario is baffling to me, too. Maybe it's lost in the translation, but OP seems to not realize he is in the driver's seat, here, and doesn't have to coddle his boss or employer.

 

[Brat]

One small practical note: I would remove from the premises EVERY scrap of personal belongings that I wanted to keep. That way, you won't find yourself with security looking over your shoulder as you clean out your desk - with your co-workers looking on in fear and/or loathing. I had to stand there with security as two of my terminated employees emptied their stuff into boxes. It was humiliating for them (even though they caused their own downfall which is NOT the case here). I felt like the Lord High Executioner to folks I liked and had shared much with over the years. Their exit was appropriate, but the process was brutal. Don't let that happen to you if you can avoid it. Just a thought so YMMV.

I agree. Also strongly recommend that you make a contact list you keep at home on your PERSONAL COMPUTER.