Honda Very Disappointing

[FIYes]

Well, since first reading this thread, I have been doing quite a bit of reading on the Internet about this issue. I have a new 2018 CR-V. I had read Consumer Reports ratings and this was a recommended vehicle. Edmunds gave it positive reviews, so was blindsided when I learned about this issue.

I am not a car person. I want a safe, reliable, comfortable vehicle to drive. My motivation for trading cars this time was to get the new safety features. I especially wanted a backup camera.

After my reading, my takeaway is that if my CR-V has this issue then it will shorten the length of time that I should keep it. This is probably not a vehicle that I can keep for eleven years like I did with my Accord. On the other hand, I should be able to be okay with it while it is under warranty at a minimum....and perhaps the fix that is rolling out will eventually reach my vehicle and actually solve the issue.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Sounds like a piston ring seating failure issue with this engine.

Also, CEL (MIL) only shows up if the car computer senses an EMISSION problem. In most cases, emission problems result from spark plug misfires, EGR valve failures, MAP and MAF sensors, etc. There are two 02 sensors (called oxygen sensors) usually upstream and downstream of the Catalytic converter are used to sense emission problems (on single exhaust systems).

The above is GENERAL info for gasoline powered cars. Diesels are similar, but have different control technology.

I bet the turbo crv has at least one o2 sensor after the downpipe - running that rich should have set it off

 

[Big_Hitter]

looks like the fix is to change the climate control unit and reflash the ecu - interesting

 

[aja8888]

I bet the turbo crv has at least one o2 sensor after the downpipe - running that rich should have set it off

If you think about it, with gasoline migrating into the crankcase, the ECU might have sensed a LEAN condition in the combustion chamber and called for MORE fueling from the injectors (adding to the problem). Throwing a MIL may have happened in some cases. Some, maybe not.

 

[Big_Hitter]

not sure - I"ve never had a direct injection car - just throttle body (LT1) and sequential injection

 

[aja8888]

not sure - I"ve never had a direct injection car - just throttle body (LT1) and sequential injection

I've had a lot of DI cars. This stuff is a lot more critical with diesels due to the multiple injection incidents per stroke in order to control pre-ignition and the much higher compression ratios. Plus meeting the NOx and particulate control requirements. Gas cars are going to see that PM control under the new CAA rules shortly too!

But this Honda issue is a real screw up on their part. When they sent out all the poorly designed transmissions years ago, they were able to hide most of that under the rug with an extended warranty on the unit (100,000 miles if I remember correctly).

 

[Chuckanut]

FYI, Consumer Reports has dropped the Odyssey and the Clarity from their recommended list due to reliability problems. My 79 Accord hatchback must be rolling over in its grave, assuming it’s still not running.

 

[jazz4cash]

so if you run rich the engine isn't burning off all of the fuel during combustion and it gets flushed into the oil pan

my question is how did this NOT trigger a CEL?

It’s probably occurring while the engine is cold and O2 sensor is not warmed up.

 

[aja8888]

It’s probably occurring while the engine is cold and O2 sensor is not warmed up.

Agreed, there are "startup" emissions exemptions negotiated into the emission rules and incorporated into the engine performance code. The agencies agreed on this when the car manufacturer's convinced them that tailpipe emissions will vary based on engine temperature and load conditions.

 

[Deej]

Bought my 2018 EXL just shy of a year ago with absolutely NO issues. Since I learned of the oil problems a month after buying it, I've been diligent in checking the oil every week or two. Just had my first oil change with no issues - still.

In addition, my car heats up within a mile from my garage (without warm up first), so that's good as well. There are MANY people who have no issues (I've been reading forums) with their V, even some with 65K+ miles on them.

Like many, I did tons of research on the SUV's I considered, and didn't see anything about the mentioned problems in my search on the CRV, only to learn of them shortly after buying, so my eyes are wide open now. I drive short distances daily (5-20 mins), with numerous short stops, and live in a cold climate (PA), so I can't agree that these are contributing factors to the oil and/or heat issues.

I agree that Honda needs to get to the root cause of this, not just a temporary "shut us up" fix, or this will come back and bite them. This is my first Honda and could very well be my last if I incur said problems. But, as of now, I'm thoroughly enjoying my ride.

 

[FreeBear]

Well, since first reading this thread, I have been doing quite a bit of reading on the Internet about this issue. I have a new 2018 CR-V. I had read Consumer Reports ratings and this was a recommended vehicle. Edmunds gave it positive reviews, so was blindsided when I learned about this issue.

Don't feel so bad, it takes some time for trouble to show up enough to impact CR rating and reviews. No car has perfect reliability ratings. Problems that aren't a huge deal statistically can be show stoppers for those small percent who see real problems. With typical auto volumes, a "small percent" can be thousands or tens of thousands of owners. Also, you can friend internet info for problems on just about anything, and it's hard to place this into actionable context.

I bought a 2004 Honda CRV based on strong reviews and reliablity ratings, at least not obviously worse than the competition. It ended up being a good car, although far from perfect. Engine lasted almost 200K miles; the next owner put in a junkyard engine and it's still on the road.

I bought the 2004 crv because I wanted to avoid the toyota oil sludge problem of the era that seemed to especially plague their V6. No Toyota for me after oil sludge killed my friend's Lexus at 25K miles. I was shocked. My friend, even more so...

Pick your poison! Still, my 2014 crv is the best car I've ever owned, in all respects. Our 2005 camry is also the most reliable older car we've ever owned. Still, I feel for you guys with the newer crv problems...

 

[gerntz]

No reason to rag in Honda in general over a few persons specific problems. Our 2017 CR-V has been just fine. This thread comes across like the years ago Audi faulty brakes "issue".

 

[HadEnuff]

No reason to rag in Honda in general over a few persons specific problems. Our 2017 CR-V has been just fine. This thread comes across like the years ago Audi faulty brakes "issue".

this doesn't appear to be a "few persons specific problems"...at this point it looks like an across the board issue with the design. Time will tell.

 

[Bamaman]

Bought my 2018 EXL just shy of a year ago with absolutely NO issues. Since I learned of the oil problems a month after buying it, I've been diligent in checking the oil every week or two. Just had my first oil change with no issues -

I agree that Honda needs to get to the root cause of this, not just a temporary "shut us up" fix, or this will come back and bite them. This is my first Honda and could very well be my last if I incur said problems. But, as of now, I'm thoroughly enjoying my ride.

Honda knows what the problem is. They just don't know how to execute a fix without it costing them a fortune in a huge recall campaign. And right now, they don't appear to want to fix'em. Just about every car manufacturer will act the same way.

 

[brucethebroker]

maybe the 1.5 is a two stroke!

Or a Chevy Vega....

 

[HadEnuff]

Don't feel so bad, it takes some time for trouble to show up enough to impact CR rating and reviews. No car has perfect reliability ratings. Problems that aren't a huge deal statistically can be show stoppers for those small percent who see real problems. With typical auto volumes, a "small percent" can be thousands or tens of thousands of owners. Also, you can friend internet info for problems on just about anything, and it's hard to place this into actionable context.

I bought a 2004 Honda CRV based on strong reviews and reliablity ratings, at least not obviously worse than the competition. It ended up being a good car, although far from perfect. Engine lasted almost 200K miles; the next owner put in a junkyard engine and it's still on the road.

I bought the 2004 crv because I wanted to avoid the toyota oil sludge problem of the era that seemed to especially plague their V6. No Toyota for me after oil sludge killed my friend's Lexus at 25K miles. I was shocked. My friend, even more so...

Pick your poison! Still, my 2014 crv is the best car I've ever owned, in all respects. Our 2005 camry is also the most reliable older car we've ever owned. Still, I feel for you guys with the newer crv problems...

I think this is a valuable perspective. DW and I took the vehicle on a 100 mile roundtrip jaunt to our old stomping grounds last night, for a Christmas party with our former co-workers. It is a nice ride.
Right now our plan is to let Honda do its "fix", and watch the oil level like a hawk.
We might not keep this vehicle the 10 years we'd originally planned, but who knows?

 

[IMATERP]

I sold my 2008 Honda Accord LX (138K miles on it) this past May for $6,400. I am grateful to have sold it for a reasonable price. I purchased a 2018 Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid as a replacement.

The reason for my frustration with Honda is that 2 1/2 years earlier, the Accord had 97,000 miles on it and the engine stopped - on Christmas Eve. The car was towed to the local dealer and Honda claimed that the vehicle did not have any oil in the vehicle. Anyway, I provided receipts that I had changed the oil each 3K - 5K miles over the life of the vehicle and that the last oil change had taken place at the 95,200 mile mark. There are numerous articles of problems with the 2008 Accord Engine losing oil - and Honda refused to fix.


Since the vehicle was no longer under warranty, Honda generously offered to replace the engine for $3,500. Since the car was not running, it was my best option at the time - as opposed to putting in a rebuilt engine that may or may not work.

Over the last 5 years = when the car was cold, the vehicle made a harsh sound during starting which Honda claimed they were aware of - but no fix offered.

Anyway, I just didn't like doing business with Honda after the aforementioned experiences and took my business to a closer dealer and brand - which was Toyota. So far, after 7 months - the Rav 4 runs like a charm.


I

 

[HadEnuff]

I sold my 2008 Honda Accord LX (138K miles on it) this past May for $6,400. I am grateful to have sold it for a reasonable price. I purchased a 2018 Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid as a replacement.

The reason for my frustration with Honda is that 2 1/2 years earlier, the Accord had 97,000 miles on it and the engine stopped - on Christmas Eve. The car was towed to the local dealer and Honda claimed that the vehicle did not have any oil in the vehicle. Anyway, I provided receipts that I had changed the oil each 3K - 5K miles over the life of the vehicle and that the last oil change had taken place at the 95,200 mile mark. There are numerous articles of problems with the 2008 Accord Engine losing oil - and Honda refused to fix.


Since the vehicle was no longer under warranty, Honda generously offered to replace the engine for $3,500. Since the car was not running, it was my best option at the time - as opposed to putting in a rebuilt engine that may or may not work.

Over the last 5 years = when the car was cold, the vehicle made a harsh sound during starting which Honda claimed they were aware of - but no fix offered.

Anyway, I just didn't like doing business with Honda after the aforementioned experiences and took my business to a closer dealer and brand - which was Toyota. So far, after 7 months - the Rav 4 runs like a charm.


I

We test drove the RAV4, and as I have a Highlander I love, I was very surprised at how much I didn't like the RAV4. And DW liked it even less, and since this is her car, we had to scratch it off the list. Too bad. Then we drove the CRV and she loved it. So we bought it. Too bad again.

As a dear friend once told me, after he'd made an expensive mistake, "All of life's lessons cost money. I've just made another tuition payment." I look at these things this way, now.

 

[samclem]

Anyway, I just didn't like doing business with Honda after the aforementioned experiences and took my business to a closer dealer and brand - which was Toyota. So far, after 7 months - the Rav 4 runs like a charm.

Keep an eye on the oil level. If you run the RAV4 without oil, it will meet the same fate as the Honda did, and Toyota will have the same response Honda did, if you are fortunate.

 

[spncity]

Wow. Is there a website "somewhere" that lists all these makes, models and years that were such lemons - or had such prominent flaws - that one can review in order to "steer clear" of them in the future when buying used cars?

 

[Another Reader]

Hoping the new RAV4 is an improvement over the last one. The current engine is a dog and gets horrible gas mileage. Drove one a couple of years ago and hated it. The 2010 Highlander I had was a POS. There were so many things wrong with it that I vowed never again to buy anything made in that factory.

Even with the 2.4L engine in the new CRV LX, I did not like the car. Who combines the speedometer with the tachometer? And instead of a flat rear area, there is a flimsy piece of carpeted something that lifts out. Difficult to load anything heavy back there. My 2002 had some height in the rear and a picnic table. I would buy another one of those in a heartbeat.

 

[Bamaman]

By the way, Honda engines have never been ones to rebuild. The good news is that they have always had a long life span if properly maintained, especially those years where they had timing belts that required changing instead of timing chains. The potential problemss being discussed here are a completely new generation of engines.

Honda engines have always been thowaways. You'd either pay out the nose for a new engine or go to the junk yard and do a swap out.

(My family owned a couple of big city Honda dealerships at one time.)

 

[freedomatlast]

I sold my 2008 Honda Accord LX (138K miles on it) this past May for $6,400.

The reason for my frustration with Honda is that 2 1/2 years earlier, the Accord had 97,000 miles on it and the engine stopped - on Christmas Eve. The car was towed to the local dealer and Honda claimed that the vehicle did not have any oil in the vehicle. Anyway, I provided receipts that I had changed the oil each 3K - 5K miles over the life of the vehicle and that the last oil change had taken place at the 95,200 mile mark. There are numerous articles of problems with the 2008 Accord Engine losing oil - and Honda refused to fix.


Since the vehicle was no longer under warranty, Honda generously offered to replace the engine for $3,500. Since the car was not running, it was my best option at the time - as opposed to putting in a rebuilt engine that may or may not work.

Over the last 5 years = when the car was cold, the vehicle made a harsh sound during starting which Honda claimed they were aware of - but no fix offered.

Anyway, I just didn't like doing business with Honda after the aforementioned experiences and took my business to a closer dealer and brand - which was Toyota. So far, after 7 months - the Rav 4 runs like a charm.


I

The 2008 Accords with the 4 cylinder engine had problems with burning oil. If you brought it to the dealer before running it out of oil and locking up the engine, the dealer would check the oil consumption over several months. If yours showed what they deemed excessive oil consumption (1 qt/600 miles), they would tear down the engine and replace the pistons and rings at a cost of about $1000, provided the car had under 100,000 miles.

The dealer told my brother in law, Honda was trying out some new low tension piston rings with a new piston design that year (in an effort for increased fuel mileage) that led to increased oil consumption later in life. This was due to the rings coking up with deposits and seizing to the piston. The fix was kind of a secret recall, one that you didn't get if you didn't ask. My brother in law had this done to his, and the car runs like new with no oil consumption between changes after the fix. And the engine is much quieter now.

Frequent oil level checks are always a good idea, no matter how new the car is. That is, unless you buy a newer BMW, since they eliminated the dip stick on those. Now on those you rely on an oil level sensor and a message that comes up on the dash if you are low on oil. May be a result of fewer people popping the hood and checking oil level the old fashioned way.

 

[thepalmersinking]

Boss had a 1990 Accord that ran for over 650,000 miles not engine issues. Everything gave out except the engine. Finally donated it. I have had 8 different Honda’s with never a problem. Bought my daughter a 2013 Civic for first car. No issues.

 

[Jerry1]

Wow. Is there a website "somewhere" that lists all these makes, models and years that were such lemons - or had such prominent flaws - that one can review in order to "steer clear" of them in the future when buying used cars?

I don’t know of any single place other than something like Consumer Reports and their long term reliability tables. However, practically all cars have a forum similar to this (ER Forum). When you are shopping, get your list down to a couple models and start googling for forums. Early problems will show up but you have to do a bit of work finding them.

Another thing is not to be an early adopter. For example, I just bought a truck. It is the last year of that generation. That means there has been 5 years for problems to come to light on any design flaws and hopefully even fixed by the manufacturer. I wouldn’t by the first year of a significant model change if I could help it.