More 15% ethanol gasoline on the way

[Chuckanut]

One

As I read more about the possible effects of the 15% ethanol rule I realize that another rule I learned is proving to be very true:

You can never do just one thing.

Corn farmers are happy to get more money for their corn. Chicken farmers are unhappy as they are expecting higher feed prices.

 

[ivinsfan]

One

As I read more about the possible effects of the 15% ethanol rule I realize that another rule I learned is proving to be very true:



Corn farmers are happy to get more money for their corn. Chicken farmers are unhappy as they are expecting higher feed prices.

You are misunderstanding, corn farmers will not get more for their corn from yesterdays news that's a misconception. Just because Biden made that announcement from an ethanol plants doesn't mean corn goes up. Many, many ethanol plants are farmer owner coop, farmers buy shares, construct a plant which the right to sell a certain number of bushels to the plant that makes the E. At the end of the year if there is money left over it would distributed to the farmer/owner.


You can't just start making more 15 it doesn't work that way. There won't be anymore new corn stocks until at least October. Can't build new plants either. This was basically a non event.

 

[GTFan]

I think we already proved ethanol is both uneconomic and environmentally unsound to mix with gasoline. A very silly decision that pretends to be "doing something" about high gas prices.

I guess this is just a lot easier than approving pipelines (in the US I mean) issuing drilling and road construction permits and allowing new exploration and leasing on federal lands.

Less MPG, more boondoggle subsidies to BigAG that doesn't need it!

'Murica.

 

[ivinsfan]

Less MPG, more boondoggle subsidies to BigAG that doesn't need it!

'Murica.

I think you are confused..this is no different than the solar or windmill government sponsored boondoggle. ...
.

 

[RunningBum]

I also read that E15 is only approved (by EPA) for heavy duty vehicles, boats, off-road, power equipment, and specific flex-fuel cars. Not for most automobiles. I won't be buying E15.

The owner's manual for my Subaru Outback says that up to 15% ethanol is ok for the 2.4L models (including mine), and up to 10% for the 2.5Ls. I'm driving to the midwest tomorrow and expect I'll see E15 and I'll likely try it at least once. I'll try to compare the mileage but unless I run my tank pretty empty (which I don't like to do in unfamiliar areas) it'll be a mix in my tank.

 

[Jerry1]

The owner's manual for my Subaru Outback says that up to 15% ethanol is ok for the 2.4L models (including mine), and up to 10% for the 2.5Ls. I'm driving to the midwest tomorrow and expect I'll see E15 and I'll likely try it at least once. I'll try to compare the mileage but unless I run my tank pretty empty (which I don't like to do in unfamiliar areas) it'll be a mix in my tank.

That seems a bad idea. I don’t like to experiment when I’m on the road. While very unlikely, what if the E15 causes issues with your car? Just not worth the risk, no matter how small.

 

[ivinsfan]

That seems a bad idea. I don’t like to experiment when I’m on the road. While very unlikely, what if the E15 causes issues with your car? Just not worth the risk, no matter how small.

I vote no as well, but it's not my car

 

[ownyourfuture]

less than 20% of the stations in the USA sold the stuff.

That's the key. No one (other than farmers) wanted the stuff then, or want it now.
I've been going to the same gas station for 37 years now. It's the most popular one in that part of town. (South Central Minnesota) they still don't have an ethanol pump.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

A global fuel shortage concerns me.

A global food shortage actually scares me.

 

[ownyourfuture]

I think you are confused..this is no different than the solar or windmill government sponsored boondoggle. ...
.

Neither industry/sector is in its infancy.
Time to end subsidies for both.

I was actually laughing out loud as I typed that last sentence.
As if the lobbyists would ever let that happen!

 

[RunningBum]

That seems a bad idea. I don’t like to experiment when I’m on the road. While very unlikely, what if the E15 causes issues with your car? Just not worth the risk, no matter how small.

That's a sound idea. Thanks.

 

[RunningBum]

I also read that E15 is only approved (by EPA) for heavy duty vehicles, boats, off-road, power equipment, and specific flex-fuel cars. Not for most automobiles. I won't be buying E15.

You've got that backwards. E15 is not approved for the vehicles you list. It is approved for most others.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e15.html

Vehicles approved for E15 use:

• Flexible fuel vehicles
• Conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer.

Vehicles prohibited from using E15:

• All motorcycles
• All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses and delivery trucks
• All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles
• All engines in off-road equipment, such as chain saws and gasoline lawn mowers
• All conventional vehicles older than model year 2001.

 

[ivinsfan]

Neither industry/sector is in its infancy.
Time to end subsidies for both.

I was actually laughing out loud as I typed that last sentence.
As if the lobbyists would ever let that happen!

LOL that's right, because since we "subsidize" all these things we can continue our fun with driving gas guzzlers, own 2 big homes, jet around the world and we're "fixing" the energy issue when in fact we fix nothing.

 

[USGrant1962]

You've got that backwards. E15 is not approved for the vehicles you list. It is approved for most others.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e15.html

Vehicles approved for E15 use:

• Flexible fuel vehicles
• Conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer.

Vehicles prohibited from using E15:

• All motorcycles
• All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses and delivery trucks
• All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles
• All engines in off-road equipment, such as chain saws and gasoline lawn mowers
• All conventional vehicles older than model year 2001.

Thanks. The website I saw must have flipped them, or my brain did.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

One bright spot that I can see for ethanol is that it has given farmers the opportunity to produce a LOT of corn and still sell it at parity and above.

About 30% of corn produced in the US ends up in ethanol.

If push comes to shove the US could shift this 30% to food use instead of ethanol and tap into fossil fuel production. This would keep us fed and force drilling in the US and importing of Canada's oil via pipeline.

I'm not politician and many people have answers to questions I can't even think of. But, the machinery is already in place to produce 30% more corn that we eat right now. That may be a good thing one day.

We really do need to focus on our fuel consumption in this country. I live near a major highway and see Suburbans and Expeditions driving many miles every day to commute to work with one person on board. Hell, I drive a Silverado to go to town myself. I should drive a car getting 40 MPG instead.

We consume a lot in the USA. Me included.

 

[RunningBum]

FWIW, I searched manuals for a few cars all from 2020 or 2021: Honda Accord, Toyota Highlander, BMW X5, Ford Escape. All of them said E15 was acceptable. BMW even allowed a little higher ethanol mix. As I said before, certain Subaru Outback trims only allow E10, not E15.

Older models may have more restrictions. I strongly suggest you check your owner's manual, because if it doesn't allow for 15% ethanol, you won't be covered if something bad happens to your engine. Some here have said theirs don't allow it. My last car, a 2014 Subaru Forester didn't.

Whether you should use it if allowed is up to you. I wouldn't use it if it was going to sit in the tank very long. That's why I don't even use E10 in my yard tools, nor my Miata if I can help it, especially the last tank of the summer. I use a fuel stabilizer too: belt and suspenders.

 

[ivinsfan]

One bright spot that I can see for ethanol is that it has given farmers the opportunity to produce a LOT of corn and still sell it at parity and above.

About 30% of corn produced in the US ends up in ethanol.

If push comes to shove the US could shift this 30% to food use instead of ethanol and tap into fossil fuel production. This would keep us fed and force drilling in the US and importing of Canada's oil via pipeline.

I'm not politician and many people have answers to questions I can't even think of. But, the machinery is already in place to produce 30% more corn that we eat right now. That may be a good thing one day.

We really do need to focus on our fuel consumption in this country. I live near a major highway and see Suburbans and Expeditions driving many miles every day to commute to work with one person on board. Hell, I drive a Silverado to go to town myself. I should drive a car getting 40 MPG instead.

We consume a lot in the USA. Me included.

Kind of on the 30% but in reality it's not one for one. We can't eat field corn. It has to be repurposed into another food. ie beef, pork, eggs, milk etc. Except for crap like high fructose corn syrup corn has to reprocessed through a live animal for human food. You aren't going to get 30% more by not processing E15. And once again it's a supply chain issue raising and processing more food.

 

[Amethyst]

Hyundai, also, specifically forbids ethanol higher than 10%. At least they do for cars up to 2019. Mine is a 2015 model.

 

[Amethyst]

A lot of people will ignore their car's requirements and use the cheapest fuel they can. Later, they may have to deal with expensive problems.

 

[ivinsfan]

A lot of people will ignore their car's requirements and use the cheapest fuel they can. Later, they may have to deal with expensive problems.

That's the ironic part of it, MPG it not really cheaper.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Kind of on the 30% but in reality it's not one for one. We can't eat field corn. It has to be repurposed into another food. ie beef, pork, eggs, milk etc. Except for crap like high fructose corn syrup corn has to reprocessed through a live animal for human food. You aren't going to get 30% more by not processing E15. And once again it's a supply chain issue raising and processing more food.

You are right, but take those 30% extra corn acres you no longer need and plant wheat, oats, and other edibles that can be human consumable right away that year. You'll still have all the corn you need for livestock. Do you remember the set aside years in the 60's and 70's ? The gov't paid farmers not to plant a percentage of their corn acres to prop up the price, but the ability to produce next year was still there if the country needed it. I still have a PIK certificate from the 80's. I'm glad those days are over.

Ethanol has allowed our farmers to grow corn to beat He!!. We could grow more if you want us to. We worry so much in this country about the strategic fuel reserve we keep hearing about when there is an oil crisis. What about a food reserve ? There used to be one during the cold war, it was called the farmer owned reserve. WW2 taught us how important a food supply was. We fed Europe for years during and after the war too, the winners and losers.

Lets don't take our food supply for granted and thank goodness it isn't controlled by an organization like OPEC.

Ivansfan, we're on the same side, the American Farmer can produce a lot and is responsible for a large part of our standard of living.

 

[Jerry1]

Just checked my manual and my pickup - GMC Sierra, will accept up to 15%. I’ve never seen more than 10% and I mostly try to use Costco gas which is Top Tier.

 

[ivinsfan]

You are right, but take those 30% extra corn acres you no longer need and plant wheat, oats, and other edibles that can be human consumable right away that year. You'll still have all the corn you need for livestock. Do you remember the set aside years in the 60's and 70's ? The gov't paid farmers not to plant a percentage of their corn acres to prop up the price, but the ability to produce next year was still there if the country needed it. I still have a PIK certificate from the 80's. I'm glad those days are over.

Ethanol has allowed our farmers to grow corn to beat He!!. We could grow more if you want us to. We worry so much in this country about the strategic fuel reserve we keep hearing about when there is an oil crisis. What about a food reserve ? There used to be one during the cold war, it was called the farmer owned reserve. WW2 taught us how important a food supply was. We fed Europe for years during and after the war too, the winners and losers.

Lets don't take our food supply for granted and thank goodness it isn't controlled by an organization like OPEC.

Ivansfan, we're on the same side, the American Farmer can produce a lot and is responsible for a large part of our standard of living.

Agree yes but I'm not sure as a country we can actually grow much more corn. I'd never deny that farmers have gotten a lot of government money, you want to talk about PIK, we'd chopped 200 acres of silage and wet corn and get a PIK payment for it. The Ag program in this country is so messed I have a hard time believing every government program isn't a total wasteful mess.


Just peeling back the curtain on how things operate in the USA.

 

[Chuckanut]

Whether you should use it if allowed is up to you. I wouldn't use it if it was going to sit in the tank very long. That's why I don't even use E10 in my yard tools, nor my Miata if I can help it, especially the last tank of the summer. I use a fuel stabilizer too: belt and suspenders.

Right inside my cars fuel filler door is a big red circle with a slash going across it. E15 is behind the red slash. I get the point.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Agree yes but I'm not sure as a country we can actually grow much more corn. I'd never deny that farmers have gotten a lot of government money, you want to talk about PIK, we'd chopped 200 acres of silage and wet corn and get a PIK payment for it. The Ag program in this country is so messed I have a hard time believing every government program isn't a total wasteful mess.


Just peeling back the curtain on how things operate in the USA.

I was there. 1992.

This country takes food abundance for granted.