More Love from (to) Honda

[RetMD21]

Our Honda experience

'00 Odyssey had extended warranty for transmission to 100k due to known problem with failures. Ours was wrecked and traded before the transmission failed

'07 Civic had a TSB or recall for bad rear alignment ruining tires. Ours has the issue but not "bad enough" to qualify so we just buy cheap tires and put up with it

'10 CRV with AC failure after the extended warranty period passed

Other than the known defects the vehicles had been good but I am giving up on Honda especially with the oil problems with the newer CRVs. I wonder if people are using state lemon laws to get rid of unfix-able CRVs

 

[ohyes]

Our 2013 Honda CRV has 160,000+ miles on it and has been one of our best vehicles ever. The second best was a Honda Accord. Since 1980, we have owned Fords, one Olds, and a 2008 Chevy Impala (our current second vehicle, which has over 100,000 miles and has also been a great car).


DH and I take turns choosing our main drive. Next choice is my turn and it will most likely be a Subaru. It's the closest thing to a "Dream Car" I have ever had.


The CRV has been wonderful - new tires and a battery are all I recall.

 

[Smitty700]

OK...well...we have a fix, which is some sort of computer pack that causes the motor to run less efficiently than what was originally advertised....Uh...well...OK I guess since it's better than completely trashing the engine...

So we did it, and 3,000 miles later....guess what? Oil is black, smells like gasoline, and the level is, once again, above the dipstick.

With the repeated repair attempts, your state's lemon law may apply.The laws typically allow the dealer a specified number of attempts, then you give a final written notice of invoking the lemon law. If the dealer can't repair it after that, then the manufacturer buys it back.

But YMMV depending on what state you are in...

 

[IMATERP]

I’d cut my losses and sell the vehicle. I’m also non longer a fan of Honda, due to past experiences. I sold my 2008 base Accord LX last year (private sale) and subsequently purchased a 2018 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. Our local Toyota dealership is very close to home and they provide a lifetime warranty on ALL major engine components for the life of the vehicle (as long as Toyota services the vehicle 2x a year.). Typically, this equates to paying for a tire rotation since “oil changes are free for life.”

My dislike for Honda is as follows:

1. Multiple dissatisfactions with dealer service dept.
2. At 7 years (97,000 miles) my engine lost power due to lack of oil and engine failure. I justified via receipts that each oil change was done on a regular basis. In addition, no oil or engine light came up on my warning mechanisms prior to car dying. The Honda dealership did not want to assist me in working with Honda Corp. to receive assistance.

After 3 weeks of bickering with Honda, they agreed to replace the engine with a New Engine BUT at a cost of $3,500. Honda claimed that parts and labor would have been $10,000 without their goodwill. I really was forced to make some sort of decision since the FMV of the car was 8k at the time of the incident.

In doing some research, there were lots of similar problems with the 2008 and I am just glad to have gotten past this event.

 

[RetMD21]

Lemon law in my state:

4 unsuccessful repair attempts of the defect within 2 years of the date of the first unsuccessful repair attempt or the vehicle is out of service for 30 calendar days, within 1 year of purchase or the warranty period.

Link to all states: https://lemonlawusa.com/

 

[CDRE]

......But I would never have the dealer do anything other than warranty work as there are so many better, cheaper alternatives for tires and service.

Sorry to hear about your problems, I would try a different dealer.

Yup, I avoid the stealerships unless the issue is for recall or warranty.

 

[VanWinkle]

I have a 2016 Honda CRV SE(non-turbo) as my first Honda. I had 60,000 on the original tires before changing to Michelins. I am now at 73,000 miles with original brakes, regular maintenance only. No problems here with 34 mpg highway and 30 mpg overall. It sounds like I am just lucky with all of the reports of problems from other Honda owners. But then, I am lucky with most vehicles that I purchase.

Best wishes to those having problems and I hope you get Honda to take care of the problems or find another vehicle you trust.

VW

 

[EarlyBirdly]

We have had zero repairs on our 2010 Honda Accord. We bought into the tires for life program so the tires are free. Sounds like you have a lemon.

I would have to agree.

My extended family has had numerous Honda vehicles. ALL were exemplary and only required normal, routine, maintenance and ALL lasted well over 150k with no additional repairs.

YOU have a LEMON. Check State and Federal laws. ( Lemon Laws )

Gas in the oil on a 3 yr. old vehicle ? That is a MAJOR defect in manufacturing.

I'd start the legal process to replace or refund the full purchase price automobile...Yesterday.

Good Luck.

 

[GTFan]

I have a 2016 Honda CRV SE(non-turbo) as my first Honda. I had 60,000 on the original tires before changing to Michelins. I am now at 73,000 miles with original brakes, regular maintenance only. No problems here with 34 mpg highway and 30 mpg overall.

Wow, you must do a lot of highway driving - I bought a 2015 EX-L last year from Carvana and am averaging 27mpg, mostly city driving. Same 2.4L powertrain as yours. I love the car, had some initial stuff that Carvana took care of but nothing since.

I avoided the 2017s because of the oil dilution issue, but a guy I volunteer with has one and has had no problems with the 1.5L turbo in his.

 

[Murph]

Oil dilution for the Honda 1.5 liter turbo is a known issue. Some additional information is here: Honda 1.5 liter engine oil dilution

Honda has recently extended the powertrain warranty for this problem. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/honda-extends-warranty-on-troubled-turbo-engines/

I’ve owned two Honda’s (a 2012 CR-Z, which still ran and looked new when I traded it in in 2018, and a 2015 CIvic that DW drives still). I had to replace the tires on both these cars far too early (replaced them with Michelin’s). Never had any mechanical trouble with either. I thought Honda was known for quality. Looks like they’re slipping.

 

[HadEnuff]

Just to update:
I am following the advice of one poster, I think it was Bamaman, on my first thread about the oil dilution issue, and have ordered a test kit from Blackstone Labs, and will have the oil changed out (not at the dealer), and tested. I showed my neighbor the oil on the dipstick, and he smelled it and agreed 100% it smelled like gasoline. It smells just like gas that one has added 2-stroke oil to.

also talked to a lawyer who informs me that a Lemon Law case is not applicable until one has actually suffered a loss, such as a loss of service of the vehicle, and they have to have had at least one chance to fix the issue. This is as I expected. At this point there has been no loss of service. However he said it was a good thing to have all of the interactions on the service record, and to have the oil tested.
I will report back when I have the oil report.

 

[rayinpenn]

It kills me to read this prior to the engine change the CRV was a great car.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

It kills me to read this prior to the engine change the CRV was a great car.

Yes, this does not look good for Honda.
Our 2003 CR-V EX high mileage experiment is going quite well at 195K miles.
I see the 2019 LX model still offers the 2.4L normally aspirated engine in both FWD and AWD with the CVT.
There are some complaints about a battery draining problem from the electronic phantom loads when sitting idle for a few days.

https://automobiles.honda.com/tools...delyear=2019&extcolorcode=NH-731P#build-price

 

[Audie Murphy]

Sorry to hear this about Honda. We have had good luck with our ‘06 Pilot and ‘07 Ridgeline. Both have over 200k and have been extremely reliable vehicles. DW daily driver is an 2012 Acura TL. It has an oil consumption issue. Acura has had it in for testing and will be getting back to us to let us know if they will be doing warranty work on it. We both agree that if they say no we will no longer be buying Honda/Acura. It consumes 3/4 of a liter every 1K miles; No blue smoke, no leaks, it just disappears. Acura has admitted that this is an issue. Just don't make your mistakes my problem and I will be a loyal repeat customer. Subaru would be our next choice.

I look forward to seeing how they handle the fuel in the oil issue for you. Best.

 

[2177V]

Honda CR-V is a great SUV..EXCEPT the turbo

I heard about the 1.5L turbo issue. I do not trust turbos. I never had one and I never will. Honda's 2.4L non-turbo is better. Less gas mileage but I can deal with that.

There is a saying from car guys: The engine comes first. Everything else is secondary.

I am also a car guy. I make sure the design of the engine is 5 years old and "service proven" or was used on other cars and SUV to demo the reliability. Some manufacturers would let the buyers "test" their engine reliability for them.

Case in point: My 1972 Vega which has oil consumption problem because Chevy used an aluminum block engine without steel sleeves. Only later later they realized their mistake and installed steel sleeves. It was too late because the public stopped buying them. I had to put in a quart of oil at every fill-up of gasoline and I cursed Chevy every time I did that.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just curious if the 2L engine in the Accord is having the same problem...


One sister bought one and loves the car...

 

[stephenson]

Setting aside silliness like not trusting turbos, Honda has had significant issues over the years. Not an unusual number relative to their peers, but Honda has rarely gotten ahead of the problem by sharing information quickly, managing their dealer network, or paying directly. They are masters at obfuscating.

Yamaha has had the “making oil” problem on their large outboard motors - many believe this is a matter of the rings not seating well, thus allowing more than normal amounts of fuel to get into the oil.

The Yamaha and general community solution has been to recommend that owners change the oil (I would recommend going to non-synthetic to increase friction) and then run the outboards as hard as possible - to better seat the rings. This apparently has a high success rate.

So, while not an expert, I would recommend a change of oil to non-synthetic, then driving the car HARD (high revs will require manual shifting of what probably is an automatic) ... this is something you can do while fighting with Honda.

Edit - to be clear, what I am saying is drive the car and shift at higher revs, then drive distances on the highway in a lower gear to keep revs up, for instance, I would drive on highway at 3000 rpm, then shift a gear lower to get rpm to 4000 for a few minutes, then back to 3000, then into auto for lower revs, then repeat, etc.

If the OPs auto doesn’t have ability to shift manually, then just drive the heck out of it ... drop into low and drive a few miles at 4000-5000 rpm. You get the point?

 

[2177V]

Just curious if the 2L engine in the Accord is having the same problem...


One sister bought one and loves the car...

Check out the following link on accord engines:

Honda Accord engines | Their problems, features, oil, tuning

vchan2177

 

[RetMD21]

I like Hondas but they seem to have their share of design flaws which they eventually correct. The transmission problems in our 2000 Odyssey came after a complete redesign for the 1999 model year. The rear alignment issue on the Civic was an early 8th generation problem. Someone suggested that buying a few years after a redesign might help. I think all the auto manufacturers are reluctant to accept responsibility for problems. Toyota gave people a hard time on the V6 engine sludge problem for years.

 

[aja8888]

I think all the auto manufacturers are reluctant to accept responsibility for problems. Toyota gave people a hard time on the V6 engine sludge problem for years.

Like with all those Toyota rusting and breaking truck frames:

https://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/14/toyota-3-billion-settlement-rusty-truck-frames/

According to Reuters, Toyota has reached a settlement in a class action lawsuit involving owners of various Toyota trucks with severe frame rust. The settlement is for $3.4 billion and will pay for inspecting and replacing frames on affected trucks. It also allows Toyota to avoid admitting any wrongdoing. In total, this settlement could include 1.5 million 2005-2010 Toyota Tacomas, 2005-2008 Sequoias, and 2007-2008 Tundras. Reuters reports that vehicles are eligible up to 12 years to the day that they were sold. The Wall Street Journal reports that Toyota will reach out to owners via mail, notices to publications, and internet methods.

 

[EarlyBirdly]

"...a Lemon Law case is not applicable until one has actually suffered a loss, such as a loss of service of the vehicle.."


Don't worry, keep driving, that will happen in fairly short order.

 

[wolf]

On another thread I mentioned that DW's 2017 Honda CR-V is among the vehicles that are getting gasoline into the oil.
Some of Honda's original tap dancing:
That's because you don't drive the car long enough distances to properly warm it up. Uh...no...we live 15 miles from the nearest town, and 90% of our driving is to and from a town 50 miles away.

It's only a problem in cold-weather environment.
Uh...like Texas and Louisiana ??

You shouldn't use the remote car starter to let the car warm up before you drive.

Uh...OK, but you did include it as a feature for which we paid money, right? Remember that??

OK...well...we have a fix, which is some sort of computer pack that causes the motor to run less efficiently than what was originally advertised....Uh...well...OK I guess since it's better than completely trashing the engine...

So we did it, and 3,000 miles later....guess what? Oil is black, smells like gasoline, and the level is, once again, above the dipstick.

So DW took it in today.. Not sure how she made out on that point, but I did get a call from her to tell me that the service guy said there was a lot of wear on the tire and well, we should replace them...Really? at 17K miles? We need new tires? That doesn't seem right.

Service manager's explanation: Well, the original tires are really designed just for comfort, not for durability. Oh...I see, so when I test drive it I'll say "Oh..this rides nice",,,but when I but real tires on it I'll say "uhhh....where did my nice riding SUV go?"

Guess who is never buying another Honda.

Gentle comment. Please read OP message before commenting.

1. Complaint is model / year specific. Most of us car people know, Honda
use to be a great company. No point in mentioning how older high
milage Honda's are still running.

2. CRV - 2017. Should be "gas dilution", not "oil". Big difference. Gas is
a solvent. Performs opposite to oil, a lubricant.

3. Honda in denial. Should be recall. But again, the public is easily fooled
and distracted. And Honda has a great PR department.

4. Compared to future Engine failure, tire wear a non-issue.

5. Consumer Reports recently downgraded Honda Odyssey to below
average. Another indicator of Honda no longer being an industry leader.

Good luck. OP.

 

[HadEnuff]

Gentle comment. Please read OP message before commenting.

1. Complaint is model / year specific. Most of us car people know, Honda
use to be a great company. No point in mentioning how older high
milage Honda's are still running.

2. CRV - 2017. Should be "gas dilution", not "oil". Big difference. Gas is
a solvent. Performs opposite to oil, a lubricant.

3. Honda in denial. Should be recall. But again, the public is easily fooled
and distracted. And Honda has a great PR department.

4. Compared to future Engine failure, tire wear a non-issue.

5. Consumer Reports recently downgraded Honda Odyssey to below
average. Another indicator of Honda no longer being an industry leader.

Good luck. OP.

Great post! and thanks for the flowers....if it were my car, I'd get rid of it. But it's DW's and she really likes it...I've suggested trading it on a leased, newer CRV...she looks at me like I have grown a 3rd eye.

 

[DrRoy]

We have had a CRV for almost 2 years and 21K miles. We live in Michigan and had the fix done as soon as we heard about it. The "inefficient" operation ends when the engine is warm and we are still getting good mileage overall (mid 30's highway, low 30's average). We like the car and will see what our experience has been when it is time for the next one. The tires are OK; should get to 40-50K. I don't like dealers as a rule. The OP's experience is especially bad.

We just had our first regular oil change since 'the fix'. The shop did not find gas in the oil.

 

[HadEnuff]

We just had our first regular oil change since 'the fix'. The shop did not find gas in the oil.

Thanks for the update. BTW, was it the dealer service that pronounced the oil "gas free" or an independent shop?