Need info from an electrician

[OldShooter]

... the spiral wire inside the nut cuts into the soft copper wires, and the contact areas are sealed against oxidization. ... One needs to tighten enough to smash the copper wire to seal the contact area against air. ...

You are talking about the "gas tight" connections I mentioned.

Still, I am impressed that the Wago connector worked so well. I did not expect it to stand up to 70A even when new. I believe this is widely used in Europe, and the Europeans are of course no dummies. So, there's something about the construction of that connector that makes it better than imagined. ...

I think the design of those also creates gas tight connections when the screws are properly tightened.

... aerospace connectors I saw were all with crimp contacts. ... The contact pins crimped onto the wires are all gold plated.

When asked about the reliability of a satellite electronics package, the reliability guys only want to know about the number and type of connections. Wire bonds between silicon chips and their packages, soldered plated-through holes between the package pins and the circuit board, flip-chip solder bonds, pins and sockets at the edges of the cards, ... and so on. They have failure rate numbers for every type of connection. After the electronic circuits themselves are tested and burned in and after the shake-rattle-roll testing, in the end it is the connections that dominate reliability.

 

[Texas Proud]

I've replaced most of the plugs in my house and have often wondered how reliable the $0.99 - $1.49 plugs really are (I'm not saying that's what was in your house)...they seem to be very cheaply made and, although they must be to code or they couldn't be sold here, I would never use them. I buy the higher quality ones that are still cheap at $3 and always connect them using the screws instead of the push in connections to ensure maximum contact and tightness.

It was an original plug by the builder, so I am sure it was the cheapest available...

 

[misanman]

Had to diagnose and fix an "open neutral" a couple of weeks ago. Had a really difficult time finding it. Turned out it was a "back stab" connection failure on an outlet that was "hidden" behind a piece of furniture. At some point it had gotten hot enough to burn/melt the insulation on the neutral wire. I ended up replacing all 10 outlets on the circuit using the screw terminals.

I'm glad the offending outlet was only "hidden" behind some furniture. If it had been drywalled over or otherwise concealed it would have been nearly impossible.

 

[NW-Bound]

... Don't think I've ever replaced a static wire that failed in the middle of a wire run - it is always the connection point absent physical damage to the wire...

I agree with you that it is hard to see a wire failing in the middle instead of at a connection point.

But then, I just saw the utility company having several trucks working on the driveway of a house in the neighborhood. They dug up a section of his driveway, and what could it be but a failed cable. I walked there to chat with the workers, and indeed that's what it was.

The big 0000 AWG power cable failed in the middle of a run. They said it's aluminum wire, and can fail over time due to stress from repeated heating and cooling cycles due to heavy current load. This neighborhood is 35-year old.

This cable carries power from the ground mounted transformer into the homes, and not the high voltage line feeding the transformer. I wonder what kind of splice they use, and then what keeps that from failing if a solid piece of cable failed before.

This is how big a 4/0 cable is. It can feed a few homes. The workers were not sure how many, but I guess I could tell by counting how many homes are between two adjacent ground transformers.

 

[Texas Proud]

As for failing in the middle of a wire run, I had that happen once...

We have a hot tub... wire was running to the heater or the pump, cannot remember which.... was having a problem and when I went to look the middle of the wire was melted... it was maybe a 3 ft run... I think they used too small of wire....

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, I can picture a wire failing in the middle due to overheating. But then, it is definitely carrying too high an amperage compared to its rating. In normal usage, that should not happen.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, I can picture a wire failing in the middle due to overheating. But then, it is definitely carrying too high an amperage compared to its rating. In normal usage, that should not happen.

Just remembered... it was not too small... it was not rated for outside.... said so on the wire... I do not know the difference for indoor vs outdoor.... the new wire said it was OK for outdoor use...

 

[NW-Bound]

At 1st thought, I did not know how there could be a difference in current carrying capability of the indoor wire vs. outdoor wire, if both are of the same gauge. They do not have different copper for the two applications. Then, I was thinking that the insulation materials may be different.

What I surmise is that your original indoor wire had its insulation cracked and deteriorated with time due to sunlight and UV exposure. Moisture seeped in and corroded the copper conductor, and weakened its current rating.

If that theory is true, one can easily confirm it by examining the wire, at the failure point as well as elsewhere along its length.

 

[Texas Proud]

At 1st thought, I did not know how there could be a difference in current carrying capability of the indoor wire vs. outdoor wire, if both are of the same gauge. They do not have different copper for the two applications. Then, I was thinking that the insulation materials may be different.

What I surmise is that your original indoor wire had its insulation cracked and deteriorated with time due to sunlight and UV exposure. Moisture seeped in and corroded the copper conductor, and weakened its current rating.

If that theory is true, one can easily confirm it by examining the wire, at the failure point as well as elsewhere along its length.

The insulation was melted all along the wire... but, we got rid of it years ago so no checking it now...

And I did not know there was an indoor only wire.... but now thinking about UV and other weather I can see it can make a difference...

 

[Texas Proud]

OK... an update...

I guess I was right to worry... they had put in normal switches when we wanted toggle switches... so they changed them to toggle a few weeks back..

Well, one was upside down... so someone came out to turn it around and could not get it to work...

Now the guy is trying to figure out which wire goes to which switch... since we are missing our vanity lights he is checking the wires... we have a hot wire that should not be hot.... there is another wire that is just hanging in air...

So, a lot of work to figure out what wire goes to which switch....

 

[pb4uski]

A question for someone who knows about wiring...


In the bathroom remodel we are going to have 3 switches for different lights. I am choosing which one I want first, second and third. Right now they have them backwards.... in other words switch 1 is turns on the lights that I want switch 3 to turn on...


I have asked them a few times to change this... they say 'no problem', but have not... they are saying that they can just move the wire in the box and be done....

Now, this bothers me since the box has 3 wires leaving it to go to the various lights and they are separated by the width of a switch... so that means the wire for switch 3 is coming in right above where switch 1 is located... they are assuring me it makes no difference....


So my question... am I being too picky to want the wire coming in (or leaving) the box right above where the switch is located? They have put sheetrock over it and I do not think they want to cut it out to do it.

OK... an update...

I guess I was right to worry... they had put in normal switches when we wanted toggle switches... so they changed them to toggle a few weeks back..

Well, one was upside down... so someone came out to turn it around and could not get it to work...

Now the guy is trying to figure out which wire goes to which switch... since we are missing our vanity lights he is checking the wires... we have a hot wire that should not be hot.... there is another wire that is just hanging in air...

So, a lot of work to figure out what wire goes to which switch....

You were right to worry? Your latest post has absolutely no relation to your OP in this thread. Seems to me like you are just trying to justify your unjustified concern in the OP. Please elaborate how the last post relates to the OP.

 

[misanman]

they had put in normal switches when we wanted toggle switches

I'm not familiar with the use of the term "toggle switches" in the context. Did you perhaps mean "rocker switches", like the Decora line?

 

[Texas Proud]

You were right to worry? Your latest post has absolutely no relation to your OP in this thread. Seems to me like you are just trying to justify your unjustified concern in the OP. Please elaborate how the last post relates to the OP.

Well, I am the OP, so I think it does relate...

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm not familiar with the use of the term "toggle switches" in the context. Did you perhaps mean "rocker switches", like the Decora line?

Yes... I guess I call them the wrong thing...

 

[ERD50]

You were right to worry? Your latest post has absolutely no relation to your OP in this thread. Seems to me like you are just trying to justify your unjustified concern in the OP. Please elaborate how the last post relates to the OP.

I also don't see the connection.

Installing a rocker switch (or any ON/OFF switch) upside down (UP should = ON; DOWN should = OFF) is a demonstration of incompetence. But it has nothing to do with wire order.

And to figure out which wire goes to which fixture/switch - they will do a simple continuity test with the breaker off. An electrician cannot, and will not, rely on the physical order of wires to tell them anything at all. It just doesn't work that way.

Did the switch "work" before he tried to get it turned right-side-up?

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Well, I am the OP, so I think it does relate...

Any update over the past week? I'm curious what this is all about.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

Any update over the past week? I'm curious what this is all about.

-ERD50

Because we had a hurricane here we did not get the lights for the vanity when expected... THEN it seems that the company that has the lights is in Georgia and they closed due to Irma...

Just picked them up today, so will talk to the contractor to see when he can put them in... he told me he has 10 to 15 flood houses that he is working on and everybody wants everything done ASAP...

I think he figured it out, but will not know until those lights are in... at least he got two of them working....


NOW, I have to call in a plumber!!! We bought a sink with 3 holes (long story to short, we could not find one the size we needed with 1 hole)... SO, there was supposed to be a plate to cover the holes... but it was not in the box... they got it and finished it yesterday... but the faucet is not solid... it moves when you push it... AND they do not know how to connect a RO system... I said do not touch it if you do not know as you can ruin the filters...

Otherwise they have done a pretty good job IMO... of course there have been problems here and there with painting etc., but that is to be expected from any contractor...