Retorque Wheels

[travelover]

By golly I think you've got it! At 162# all I need to do is a single hand handstand on my 3/8" 8.5" long SnapOn ratchet. smoothly. no jumping. 20 times.

 

[skyking1]

Engineer says get out a long handled whatever and turn them just a bit more. Unless you are an unfeeling oaf, you won't exceed that 105 and that is what matters.

 

[skyking1]

Looks useful if I go this route, thanks.

I have an inexpensive Ryobi with 3 speeds. Those speeds are approximate torque values in real world application.
My truck requires the highest speed. The cars are in good shape if I take them up at 1 and then go around the pattern at 2. I then check with a wrench but I'm satisfied with those results.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I have an impact wrench, but find that something like this is faster and easier:

 

[NW-Bound]

About wheels coming off, the problem is not with insufficient torque on the wrench as with the wheel(s) not properly seated onto its mounting lugs or mating surface. I think the problem is more severe with larger vehicles, for example the dually rear wheels of my motorhome, where the same nuts hold both wheels in.

All the tire places I have been to, they always drive the RV up/down the lot a bit, before retorquing the nuts. Nobody ever did that with my passenger cars. And I never had them asking me to bring the car back for retorque.


PS. When I mount tires, I always tighten the nuts as much as I can, with the vehicle on jack and the tire unloaded. This is to ensure that the wheel is properly seated. I then lower the jack just enough so that the tire touches the ground with enough pressure so that I can tighten the nuts with enough torque. With a breaker bar more than 2' long, I can use bare hands and can be sure I put on plenty of torque. No jumping necessary.

Removing nuts is the job of an impact wrench, which I never use for tightening. It's easy to remove nuts with the long breaker bar too. Jumping is usually not necessary, and just stepping on it is usually sufficient. The RV wheels are something else though.

 

[Sunset]

How do people feel about putting a few drops of oil on the studs before putting the nut back on so that it won't rust in place ?

I've done this in the past and the nuts stayed on tight. It did make them screw on a with less resistance using my fingers..... Then I tightened them with the wrench as my hands are not strong enough

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

How do people feel about putting a few drops of oil on the studs before putting the nut back on so that it won't rust in place ?

I've done this in the past and the nuts stayed on tight. It did make them screw on a with less resistance using my fingers..... Then I tightened them with the wrench as my hands are not strong enough

That's as hotly debated on the internet as paying off a mortgage is on early-retirement.org

Everyone has an opinion, ranging from it's 'ok' to it's a dangerous thing to do.

Some will say anti-seize is a better idea than oil. I tend to agree with that, if done in extreme moderation.

Your mileage may definitely vary.

 

[Telly]

I've been using cross-bar wrenches since the 1960s. The "wrench" that comes with a vehicle is a poor substitute. The goal for an automaker is make it cheap, multi-purpose (as part of jack handle), and light.

A cross-bar wrench, use a larger one for trucks, has many design/human factors advantages. It centers torque on the fasteners, unlike any sort of L-wrench. Used properly, it can exert a large amount of torque, by centering oneself in relation to the shaft to the lugnut, and pulling up on one with the same effort as pushing down on the other. Simple, but I have seen people not doing it properly. It also spins lugnuts off/on real fast (but hand-start first, like all threaded fasteners). I have a real good feel for 100 ft. lbs., but check with torque wrench.

I tighten what I can up in the air, finish on ground. Front wheels on a rear-wheel-drive vehicle will spin easily, since there is no parking brake nor axle shaft to trans link. For those, using the cross-bar wrench on lug nut, I first jerk them CW to get some snugness. When all snug, then turn wrench CCW to rotate wheel some CCW, and then quickly snap back CW, using the inertia of the tire/wheel/hub assembly to allow me to tighten it a lot more. Then finish on ground, as mentioned by one of the earlier posters, by lowering jack enough to put just enough weight on tire to prevent tire turning during final tightening.

Retorque wheels - IIRC, this was not much of an issue with steel wheels, but became an issue with the advent of aluminum wheels. When I have wheels off for rotation or other work, I retorque a day or two later, depends on miles driven. I always use torque wrench, 1/2" drive and 6-point sockets. Not unusual to get a little bit of further tightening when retorqueing.

I have never lost a wheel, nor have had any loose lug nut problems.

When it comes to being sure that the wheel is properly seated on the hub, my personal experience has been that FWD cars are by far the worst, due to the extreme positive offset of the wheels. Meaning, the wheel's structure that ties the wheel's rim to the wheel's hub area, is biased far to the outside (closest to the person). It makes the wheel assembly very "tippy" when trying to install, and easy for it either not to seat properly, or unseat itself as you start lug nuts.

One last thought, not doable by all... (hey, that's YOUR problem, I can do it fine! )... Instead of trying to lift tire onto hub using the back, if you can squat, do so, with knees splayed outwards. Hold tire a little bit below 9 and 3, with forearms resting on knees a bit back from wrists. Press down on elbows using arm muscles, using your forearms as levers acting upon your knees as fulcrums, to lift the tire. Maybe this could be a new yoga position.

 

[skyking1]

That's as hotly debated on the internet as paying off a mortgage is on early-retirement.org

Everyone has an opinion, ranging from it's 'ok' to it's a dangerous thing to do.

Some will say anti-seize is a better idea than oil. I tend to agree with that, if done in extreme moderation.

Your mileage may definitely vary.

I clean the studs and use a bit of anti-seize. Back in the day we had a couple of 72 datsuns with completely covered studs, the threads were never exposed to the weather. That was by far the best system I had seen. They were always finger loose after breaking them loose.

 

[finnski1]

PS. When I mount tires, I always tighten the nuts as much as I can, with the vehicle on jack and the tire unloaded. This is to ensure that the wheel is properly seated. I then lower the jack just enough so that the tire touches the ground with enough pressure so that I can tighten the nuts with enough torque. With a breaker bar more than 2' long, I can use bare hands and can be sure I put on plenty of torque. No jumping necessary.

Removing nuts is the job of an impact wrench, which I never use for tightening. It's easy to remove nuts with the long breaker bar too. Jumping is usually not necessary, and just stepping on it is usually sufficient. The RV wheels are something else though.

This is almost my exact procedure as well except I don't use the impact wrench. Just an 18 inch breaker bar and an extra foot of pipe over the breaker bar handle and stand on it to remove them. Been doing it for 38 years with never any issues. I finally bought a torque wrench and used it on the new Subaru to install winter tires. The 88 ft lbs with the wrench felt a little less than my old method but so far so good.
I do use a tiny bit of anti seize on the threads when installing them.

 

[Car-Guy]

You can estimate torque by simply standing on the ratchet at the right spot. For example if you want to exert 100 foot pounds of torque and weight 200 pounds, stand about 6 inches from the end of the business end of the ratchet.

Sounds like a good way to get hurt.

 

[freedomatlast]

I torque them once to the manufacturer's specification. If done properly, no need for a recheck later.

 

[Music Lover]

You can estimate torque by simply standing on the ratchet at the right spot. For example if you want to exert 100 foot pounds of torque and weight 200 pounds, stand about 6 inches from the end of the business end of the ratchet.

It's probably safer to use a 1' bar and pull up with 100 pounds of force.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

You can estimate torque by simply standing on the ratchet at the right spot. For example if you want to exert 100 foot pounds of torque and weight 200 pounds, stand about 6 inches from the end of the business end of the ratchet.

Sounds like a good way to get hurt.

But, think of all the money he's saving!!

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-63882.html

$20

 

[travelover]

It's probably safer to use a 1' bar and pull up with 100 pounds of force.

And how would you quantify that - with a pull gauge? You might as well go buy a torque wrench.

 

[travelover]

Sounds like a good way to get hurt.

Well, we all know our own level of coordination and balance.

 

[travelover]

But, think of all the money he's saving!!

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-63882.html

$20

Read back to the original question - the poster did not have access to a torque wrench. I offered a temporary solution.

 

[Car-Guy]

Well, we all know our own level of coordination and balance.

 

[JoshTrent]

How do people feel about putting a few drops of oil on the studs before putting the nut back on so that it won't rust in place ?

I've done this in the past and the nuts stayed on tight. It did make them screw on a with less resistance using my fingers..... Then I tightened them with the wrench as my hands are not strong enough

Anti-Seize may be a better choice over an oil/penetrating lube. The latter typically doesn't offer any benefit once the bolt is seated. However, lubricating a threaded joint will affect the nut factor, which is a consideration for achieving the torque value.

All that said, for the application of lug nuts on a passenger vehicle.. If the joint is in good shape (no galling) and is torqued upon installation to manufacturer spec (with or without lubrication) there would be no reason to re-torque (other than peace of mind).

I personally don't lubricate my lug bolts. My wheels are on/off enough to make that too labor intensive for me.

 

[RunningBum]

But, think of all the money he's saving!!

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-63882.html

$20

Yeah, I'm not stepping on my ratchet. This tool looks good to me. I think I'll get it.

I read one place where they suggested you push down on your bathroom scale to 80 lbs or whatever you need, and use that same force with the lug wrench. Not sure that would really work.

 

[Music Lover]

And how would you quantify that - with a pull gauge? You might as well go buy a torque wrench.

I've been lifting weights for 40 years and have a pretty good idea what 100 pounds feels like and can get pretty close. My point was however, that it's safer to pull up than to stand on the bar.

Yes, a torque wrench is better. Even for me.

 

[Jerry1]

But, think of all the money he's saving!!

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-63882.html

$20

I don't know. If I cared enough to use a torque wrench, I don't think I'd buy it at Harbor Freight. I like Harbor Freight. They have great prices on a lot of stuff I consider single use or non-critical. I would, and I did, get a torque wrench elsewhere. I forget what I paid, but it was under $100.

ETA:
I looked it up. I got this one. $65

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5ZL1NS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Once I had to torque the bolt that holds the harmonic dampener of my engine to some outrageous torque specification. It is a torque-to-yield spec, so you first torque to 240 ft-lbs, which is near the limit of what my Snap-On 1/2" torque wrench could handle. Then, you put a new bolt on, torque it tight (37 ft-lbs), and then turn the bolt another 140º.

I had to use an extension to a 1/2" breaker bar. (I used the boom of my engine lift as the extension.) I had to push down, not up, due to the way the engine sat on the engine stand, so I was limited to my body weight. Even at full extension, my body weight was not enough for the spec, so I put on a backpack loaded it with some weightlifting weights. Phew!

 

[JoshTrent]

Once I had to torque the bolt that holds the harmonic dampener of my engine to some outrageous torque specification. It is a torque-to-yield spec, so you first torque to 240 ft-lbs, which is near the limit of what my Snap-On 1/2" torque wrench could handle. Then, you put a new bolt on, torque it tight (37 ft-lbs), and then turn the bolt another 140º.

I had to use an extension to a 1/2" breaker bar. (I used the boom of my engine lift as the extension.) I had to push down, not up, due to the way the engine sat on the engine stand, so I was limited to my body weight. Even at full extension, my body weight was not enough for the spec, so I put on a backpack loaded it with some weightlifting weights. Phew!

Torque to yields are great fun.. especially to remove.

The Axle Nut on my car has a spec of 264 ft-lbs. That's well beyond my torque wrench, so I just put all my body weight on the end of a 1.5 ft extension. Never thought of using a weighted back pack!

 

[Walt34]

So now I'm fretting just a bit. Rotated the tires on the CX5 yesterday - only problem is I seem to have taken my 1/2" torque wrench north last trip and was without down here.

If you just need one for occasional use maybe get one from Harbor Freight. From the reviews I've seen they are just as accurate as much more expensive brands, at least when new. And probably more accurate than jumping on the breaker bar....

BTW, if there's not a store close by, order online. $20 + shipping gets you a new torque wrench.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=torque wrench