Stereo Receivers

[runnerr]

I am in the market for a stereo 2-channel receiver and have been comparing the Harman Kardon HK 3485 with the Onkyo TX 8522. Anyone have any input on these or on what company builds the most reliable receiver? I am just going to listen to music.

Thanks Bob

 

[Texas Proud]

Have not bought one in MANY years...

But both brands are 'known'... so pick the one that looks best and has the features you like...

Also, take a look at Yamaha... They make good ones also...

 

[Razor]

You might want to get one that has surround sound in case you ever get a 50 inch LCD TV and want to make your movies sound great.
I have had Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood, Onkyo, JVC, and they all worked great.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Seems to me that almost anything made by a major manufacturer today is light years ahead of anything up to the upper mid range from 10-15 years ago. Music sounded pretty good then.

Pick the features and price that appeal to you the most...it seems to me that the days of scrutinizing levels of total harmonic distortion between this $300 receiver and that $350 receiver may be behind us...

 

[RonBoyd]

Pick the features and price that appeal to you the most...it seems to me that the days of scrutinizing levels of total harmonic distortion between this $300 receiver and that $350 receiver may be behind us...

I agree. Several months ago, I decided to see if a "home theatre" setup really brought anything to the table. Of course, I didn't want to spend a lot until I was sure of what I was doing. Anyway, I purchased a Sony STR-DG510 receiver (I believe on sale around $150 at Best Buy). I am completely satisfied with this product. I run everything through it and, too be honest, television, for example, is (almost) enjoyable now, particularly those digital PBS "music" shows. Admittedly, the surround sound speaker system is more important than the receiver but...I scrimped in that category too -- only spending in the area of $500.

Sony STR-DG510 AV receiver reviews - CNET Reviews

Pick the receiver that has the most features that trip your trigger and don't look back.

 

[youbet]

Seems to me that almost anything made by a major manufacturer today is light years ahead of anything up to the upper mid range from 10-15 years ago. ..

Not always, depending on what you're doing. Ive kept an over 20 year old KLH model 71 receiver (analog) on hand due to its superior sensitivity and selectivity. I use it for listening to out of town PBS stations that neither my late model Kenwood or Onkyo can even detect. I think it hears weak stations better due to less synthesizer generated phase noise and better front end and IF filtering.

Of course, it's missing the skull crushing amp power, digital frequency readout and many of the bells and whistles of my modern gear. But still worth hanging on to for what I use it for.

 

[jIMOh]

I have a JVC stereo receiver I bought when I was 15 yo (20 years ago). It still works and powers the 6+1 CD changer in our loft.

Downstairs I have surround sound with a pioneer receiver and a 300 disc Sony CD player. Right after I bought the Sony CD player, mp3 players became popular. I want to change to one of the bose surround/theatre systems, but wife won't let me spend that money right now.

 

[FinanceDude]

Pick the features and price that appeal to you the most...it seems to me that the days of scrutinizing levels of total harmonic distortion between this $300 receiver and that $350 receiver may be behind us...

LMAO.......I remember those days of agonizing..........then I discovered that at 140Db, it ALL sounded distorted...........

 

[Marquette]

My co-worker is in love with his Denon that he just bought... I guess it auto-compensates for surround based on tuning itself...

I have an Integra to run both zones in my house, but I've never bothered to hook it up to anything other than the speakers in the ceiling.

 

[Razor]

I agree. Several months ago, I decided to see if a "home theatre" setup really brought anything to the table. Of course, I didn't want to spend a lot until I was sure of what I was doing. Anyway, I purchased a Sony STR-DG510 receiver (I believe on sale around $150 at Best Buy). I am completely satisfied with this product. I run everything through it and, too be honest, television, for example, is (almost) enjoyable now, particularly those digital PBS "music" shows. Admittedly, the surround sound speaker system is more important than the receiver but...I scrimped in that category too -- only spending in the area of $500.

Sony STR-DG510 AV receiver reviews - CNET Reviews

Pick the receiver that has the most features that trip your trigger and don't look back.

That Sony looks like a great buy and with 500 watts it has plenty of power to disturb the neighbors.

 

[yakers]

..it seems to me that the days of scrutinizing levels of total harmonic distortion between this $300 receiver and that $350 receiver may be behind us...

The other thing I hate to admit, my hearing is just not as good as it once was. Its just not worth it to go after the real high end systems without high end ears.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I wasnt gonna go there, but yeah...

 

[HFWR]

Like trying to watch HD through bifocals...

My surround sytem sounds great for surround programming, but a regular old CD is not so good.

Funny how my 21yo Hitachi system with 26w/ch is WAY louder than my 100w/channel SS system...

 

[Texas Proud]

Like trying to watch HD through bifocals...

My surround sytem sounds great for surround programming, but a regular old CD is not so good.

Funny how my 21yo Hitachi system with 26w/ch is WAY louder than my 100w/channel SS system...

Speakers have more to do with loudness than power.... and 100 watts would not produce much more sound than 26...

If you power is 'good' it will sound better... I remember being in a high end stereo shop once and they were playing these speakers at an ear splitting level... the roof actually 'caved in'... but it was a tube system with IIRC 20 watts power... and no distortion heard...

 

[mathjak107]

loudness is more a function of speaker efficiancy. in fact a wattage rating is pretty bogus also. its done with a test resister which is non inductive. its a big difference from an actual speaker which is inductive and at certain frequencies can actually be less than 1 ohm . under real load my big ole monster pioneer receiver i used to have rated at almost 300 watts would actually shut down on certain speakers when played loud.

on the other hand my old 20 watt nad blew away most 100 watters under actual conditions using a speaker and not test resister

right now i have a linn system which is 75 watts but can drive anything you throw against it. its nice and compact albeit expensive as nothing from linn is ever cheap. i use the linn movie classik with 4 linn unik speakers, a linn sizmik subwoofer and the linn tukan as a center. hi-end audio has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years


Linn Classik Movie Di reviewed on AudioRevolution.com

 

[theHundt]

They have some really good deals on "factory recertified" models on the shoponkyo.com site sometimes. Recently they had a 10% off refurbs with free shipping. You get an extra 10$ off for signing up with club onkyo too. There is a disclaimer that says they don't always ship with all of the manuals, cables, etc, but I purchases a refurbed TX-SR505 recently and other than the factory recertified stickers on it, it looks brand new and came with everything. I've also been researching them for months and have not read a single instance where one showed up missing anything. I tend to put denon, yamaha, and harmon kardon on a higher level. Then onkyo, pioneer, sony, etc. This is just my perception and may just be due to clever advertising

 

[Razor]

Speakers have more to do with loudness than power.... and 100 watts would not produce much more sound than 26...

If you power is 'good' it will sound better... I remember being in a high end stereo shop once and they were playing these speakers at an ear splitting level... the roof actually 'caved in'... but it was a tube system with IIRC 20 watts power... and no distortion heard...

I disagree.
If you hook 2 recievers to speakers that can handle 200 watts.
One reciever has 25 watts/channel and the other has 100 watts/channel there will be an extreme difference in loudness in the two when cranked up. Been there done that. Best done outside though.

Car stereos with 15 watts/ch do not compare with those with 100watts/channel. to

 

[HFWR]

Well, I'm sure that if I had better, i.e. more efficient speakers, I'd get more "loudness", but current setup is adequate, and I'm too cheap to buy another set...

Gave a presentation in Speech class about power ratings and such; good for an "A"...

 

[RonBoyd]

Maybe I have it all wrong. Perhaps this is the way I should have gone.

Crazy Pod Chair Makes You Think You Are In The Movie Sleeper | Networking Audio Video - NetworkingAudioVideo.com

 

[sailor]

I disagree.
If you hook 2 recievers to speakers that can handle 200 watts.
One reciever has 25 watts/channel and the other has 100 watts/channel there will be an extreme difference in loudness in the two when cranked up. Been there done that. Best done outside though.

I think you might be a victim of creative marketing.
Assuming both receivers have same speakers (let's say sensitivity 90dB / 1W /1m for easy calculations) and you could really get the indicated power levels into the speakers, the 25W would provide loudness of 103.9 dB of and 100W would get 110 dB.
While these levels would be distinguishable from one another, I would hardly call it "an extreme difference".

 

[Razor]

I think you might be a victim of creative marketing.
Assuming both receivers have same speakers (let's say sensitivity 90dB / 1W /1m for easy calculations) and you could really get the indicated power levels into the speakers, the 25W would provide loudness of 103.9 dB of and 100W would get 110 dB.
While these levels would be distinguishable from one another, I would hardly call it "an extreme difference".

I am talking from experience. To fill up a good size hall with sound a 25watt/ch stereo will not do the job, but a 100watt/channel will. The difference between 100db and 110db is actually quite a bit. An increase of 10 db is a tenfold increase in sound.
There is a huge difference in a car stereo with 20 watts/channel and one with 100 watts/channel. I know, I upgraded the unit in my Corvette and now can only turn the volume up half way without discomfort.
In normal listening 25 watts/channel is fine but there definitely is a difference between 100 and 25.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am talking from experience. To fill up a good size hall with sound a 25watt/ch stereo will not do the job, but a 100watt/channel will. The difference between 100db and 110db is actually quite a bit. An increase of 10 db is a tenfold increase in sound.
There is a huge difference in a car stereo with 20 watts/channel and one with 100 watts/channel. I know, I upgraded the unit in my Corvette and now can only turn the volume up half way without discomfort.
In normal listening 25 watts/channel is fine but there definitely is a difference between 100 and 25.

Most of the watts are used in bass.... the highs just don't take that much...

AND, you are probably using only 1 or 2 watts when listening to music unless you wish to blast away.... so the difference in 25 and 100 is mostly marketing... as long as everything else is the same...

Now, having said that... usually 25 watt systems are made with a lot more distortion than 100... but not always... as I said, a tube system would blow away your 100 watt system in sound quality and driver ability...

Someone tell me... IIRC, a doubling of watts only produce 3 db more sound... so would it not only be 6 db louder? not 10?

 

[sailor]

I am talking from experience. To fill up a good size hall with sound a 25watt/ch stereo will not do the job, but a 100watt/channel will. The difference between 100db and 110db is actually quite a bit. An increase of 10 db is a tenfold increase in sound.
There is a huge difference in a car stereo with 20 watts/channel and one with 100 watts/channel. I know, I upgraded the unit in my Corvette and now can only turn the volume up half way without discomfort.
In normal listening 25 watts/channel is fine but there definitely is a difference between 100 and 25.

LOL
I think you might be a victim of creative marketing
1. Would you consider Carnegie Hall a good size? It can be easily "filled up" with 25W of power available. Imagine a "cheap consumer grade" Klipschhorn driven with 25W and we are talking about 118 dB at 1m
2. 110 minus 103.9 is 6.1, not 10.
3. Have you wondered why such logarithmic scale was introduced for measuring the loudness? Based on workings of the human ear/brain system. So while 110 dB sound will be 10 times more powerful (in absolute values i.e. W/sq m) than 100 dB sound but the ear does not perceive it as that much of a difference.
4. Have you verified manufacturers claims for 20W/channel and 100W/channel? I did measure several car stereos and about 2/3 of them did not measured up. The only visible benefit to me for higher power amps were typically lower THD at the moderate and high volume levels (>10W). Since I never use it this way it's worth nothing to me. OTOH you might need it in your Vette.
FWIW I use 50 mW/channel on my commute and around 1W/channel on my boat for normal listening.

 

[sailor]

Hmm, I guess I should learn how to do multiple quotes

Someone tell me... IIRC, a doubling of watts only produce 3 db more sound... so would it not only be 6 db louder? not 10?

Yes. For example look here: Decibel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Razor]

Definition and examples

The decibel (dB) is used to measure sound level, but it is also widely used in electronics, signals and communication. The dB is a logarithmic unit used to describe a ratio. The ratio may be power, sound pressure, voltage or intensity or several other things. Later on we relate dB to the phon and the sone (units related to loudness). But first, to get a taste for logarithmic units, let's look at some numbers. (If you have forgotten, go to What is a logarithm?)

For instance, suppose we have two loudspeakers, the first playing a sound with power P1, and another playing a louder version of the same sound with power P2, but everything else (how far away, frequency) kept the same.
The difference in decibels between the two is defined to be

10 log (P2/P1) dB where the log is to base 10.​

If the second produces twice as much power than the first, the difference in dB is

10 log (P2/P1) = 10 log 2 = 3 dB.​

If the second had 10 times the power of the first, the difference in dB would be

10 log (P2/P1)= 10 log 10 = 10 dB.​

If the second had a million times the power of the first, the difference in dB would be

10 log (P2/P1) = 10 log 1000000 = 60 dB.​