United Airlines Roughed Up Passenger to Give Up His Seat

[CardsFan]

So here are the "facts" as we know them (based upon the articles published by reputable sources and linked in this thread):

- The airline offered $800 for volunteers

- There were not any volunteers, so the airline announced an involuntary bump.

- The law says the involuntary bump requires re-imbursement of 4X fare paid

- the Airline starts with the lowest paying fliers, and that could be as low as $221, so $884 would be the maximum legally required payment, if that is what he paid.

- There was another flight 3.5 hours later (I checked this on-line), but there is no mention if this was available.

- The flier was carried off by Chicago Police, not the airline staff.

- Regardless of how it looks, the airline was totally within its legal rights to make the bump

So, my thoughts:

- IMHO the flier acted irrationally. Once selected, get off the plane, argue your case outside. You probably won't win, but if the flier was a doctor, and had a pressing need to be home for Monday's appointments, he might have made a case. Or at least been confirmed on the later flight. Needing to be removed by force does NOT help your position.

- The airlines offer was only 10% below the maximum they would spend for an involuntary bump. That explains why they did not go higher.

- a lawsuit against the airline SHOULD go nowhere (but that does not stop someone from trying). Maybe against the Chicago PD, and they will probably settle.

- Someone on the phone talking to an attorney, while the event is happening, just smells bad.

For the record, while working I was a frequent flier, logging about 2 million total miles flying several airlines (but seldom United). I have seen, and experienced, my share of frustrations with the airlines. Nothing this bad, but I have walked off delayed planes since I would arrive too late for my meeting, which could not be moved.

I also believe I have been the beneficiary of times when others were bumped to make room for me and my flying companions, due to status with the airline.

FWIW, It is interesting that the article linked by Imoldernu shows Southwest to be #3 in bumped passengers, behind Delta and United, but they always seem to come out well with satisfaction surveys.

 

[bUU]

So here are the "facts" as we know them (based upon the articles published by reputable sources and linked in this thread):

I think there does need to be a good amount of cutting through the bs about this incident. The amount of hysterical and insane ranting reposted by my friends on Facebook today was off the scale.

$800 is very generous. If there weren't volunteers at that level then the airline is justified to bump seated passengers to make room for crew members needed at other airports. It took almost a week for Delta to recover from their recent situation and a good part of that was how both equipment and crew could not be gotten to where they need to be fast enough.

The fact that this story was sensationalized by accusations that the airline dragged the passenger of the flight, instead of the reality, that the passenger refused to comply with orders of the police and it was the police that took the violator off the flight, indicates that the original originators of these Facebook posts knew that they were spewing deceptive claptrap.

The fact that these deceptive bash jobs against the airline get so many reposts and are picked up by the media is part of what's wrong with America - people trying to leverage lies and mob mentality for personal gain.

 

[Helen]

Maybe they need to change the laws as to when people can be bumped? This was no safety issue. Why should passengers have to pay for poor planning on the airlines part?

Too bad the passenger wasn't a member of Congress. A while back someone from Congress was on a plane that sat on a tarmac for 6 or 8 hours. After that a law was passed as to how long an airline could hold passengers on the tarmac.

 

[Luck_Club]

Wow...looks like they let the doctor get back on the Chicago-Louisville flight...here's video of his bloodied face and him saying "want to go home"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-vide...turning-plane-forcibly-removed-185220992.html

omni

I think the doctor just got his early retirement pass.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Watching the video made me wonder if there was something mentally wrong with the doctor.

 

[bUU]

Maybe they need to change the laws as to when people can be bumped? This was no safety issue. Why should passengers have to pay for poor planning on the airlines part?

Because that's the terms and conditions, and the industry standard on which pricing is based. If people don't like it, let them pass a law.

 

[Tetto]

If you go to United Facebook page, there are something like 38,000 replies/comments to the CEO's ridiculous statement. Clearly, this one incident could severely damage that airlines ability to keep flying. People have lots of choices! And folks should also force Star Alliance to drop United, if possible.

 

[CaliKid]

If you go to United Facebook page, there are something like 38,000 replies/comments to the CEO's ridiculous statement. Clearly, this one incident could severely damage that airlines ability to keep flying. People have lots of choices! And folks should also force Star Alliance to drop United, if possible.

I sincerely doubt this will even be a topic of conversation, for most people, in a week's time. It's unfortunate that United AND the police messed up but I really think there is more to this story.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have never heard of anything like that... generally they just keep upping the incentives to give up your seat until someone volunteers.

If it was overbooked, I wonder if all passengers have an equal chance of being involuntarily bumped, or if they simply select from the cheapest fare codes.

Disturbing. I wonder how much the guy will end up getting from United for a settlement? Probably a lot. I suspect the lawyers are lining up at his door.

And he got bumped so some United employees? Even though the employees were flying for business and not pleasure, that is outrageous!

Not always.... I was on an overbooked flight just before Thanksgiving... it had like 12 passengers over... I remember talking to a guy who had an assigned seat and I did not... he said I was in trouble since I had not been assigned... I said I was not as my ticket was full fare (company paid like $960 compared to less than $300 for others).... when I was boarding I saw that man complaining to the people at the gate... they made only one offer and then started to call people up and tell them the bad news...

 

[bUU]

Mob mentality can surely be manipulated to damage a brand. No question about that. It's even easier these days with the ability to post FUD on Facebook with impunity. The end result is a much more random service experience since it is yet another reason why customer loyalty is worthless given how easy it can be damaged by irrational consumers buying into the latest tweetstorm.

 

[Texas Proud]

So here are the "facts" as we know them (based upon the articles published by reputable sources and linked in this thread):

- The airline offered $800 for volunteers

- There were not any volunteers, so the airline announced an involuntary bump.

- The law says the involuntary bump requires re-imbursement of 4X fare paid

- the Airline starts with the lowest paying fliers, and that could be as low as $221, so $884 would be the maximum legally required payment, if that is what he paid.

- There was another flight 3.5 hours later (I checked this on-line), but there is no mention if this was available.

- The flier was carried off by Chicago Police, not the airline staff.

- Regardless of how it looks, the airline was totally within its legal rights to make the bump

So, my thoughts:

- IMHO the flier acted irrationally. Once selected, get off the plane, argue your case outside. You probably won't win, but if the flier was a doctor, and had a pressing need to be home for Monday's appointments, he might have made a case. Or at least been confirmed on the later flight. Needing to be removed by force does NOT help your position.

- The airlines offer was only 10% below the maximum they would spend for an involuntary bump. That explains why they did not go higher.

- a lawsuit against the airline SHOULD go nowhere (but that does not stop someone from trying). Maybe against the Chicago PD, and they will probably settle.

- Someone on the phone talking to an attorney, while the event is happening, just smells bad.

For the record, while working I was a frequent flier, logging about 2 million total miles flying several airlines (but seldom United). I have seen, and experienced, my share of frustrations with the airlines. Nothing this bad, but I have walked off delayed planes since I would arrive too late for my meeting, which could not be moved.

I also believe I have been the beneficiary of times when others were bumped to make room for me and my flying companions, due to status with the airline.

FWIW, It is interesting that the article linked by Imoldernu shows Southwest to be #3 in bumped passengers, behind Delta and United, but they always seem to come out well with satisfaction surveys.

+1 on all the facts stuff....


And IMO anybody who thinks that they are going to shell out $2 million is dreaming..... there is no way they would pay that amount... not even $1 million...


If I were on a jury I would be hard pressed to give the guy even $100,000.... why? He did NOT comply and caused what happened afterward to happen.... if he had complied and done what he should have done we would not be hearing anything about it.... he was more negligent than the airline...

 

[Tetto]

I sincerely doubt this will even be a topic of conversation, for most people, in a week's time. It's unfortunate that United AND the police messed up but I really think there is more to this story.

Possibly; but something tells me this is not going away overnight. I used to fly +100,000 miles a year strictly with United and not once saw this happen. Maybe that means it's an anomaly, or the United culture is in the shitter. IMO, it's in the shitter from what my friends say who work there. It used to be a great airline, not so much any longer. I think this guy will be seeing a boatload of cash come his way.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Watching the video made me wonder if there was something mentally wrong with the doctor.

Well, he did suffer a head injury.

 

[easysurfer]

Well, he did suffer a head injury.

He got knocked out cold by the armrest. From wailing to a rag doll being dragged off.

May have been concussed when he came back on the plane saying he needed to go home.

 

[Meadbh]

Watching the video made me wonder if there was something mentally wrong with the doctor.

Watching the video made me wonder whether the doctor had suffered a head injury.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I did not realize he got knocked out. If he has a head injury of course the damages will be more. Yes it was partly his fault for not getting off but they should not have let all the people on. It is easier to deny boarding then to pull someone off. Also calling the police appeared to be a bad choice. It sounds like between the bad publicity, possible lawsuit and I am sure the plane was delayed while they cleaned up the blood, etc there had to be an easier way.

 

[athena53]

Too bad the passenger wasn't a member of Congress. A while back someone from Congress was on a plane that sat on a tarmac for 6 or 8 hours. After that a law was passed as to how long an airline could hold passengers on the tarmac.

I believe the original laws which required the payment of penalties to passengers who were bumped due to overbooking were enacted after the woman who was the head of the FAA at the time got bumped from a flight. When she objected, the flight attendant called her a (rhymes with rich). Oops.

 

[bUU]

Perhaps this will prompt airlines to deplane aircraft entirely in such cases. Get everyone off the plane, then reboard. Because ouur fellow passengers cannot be trusted to comply with police instructions, and instead insist on acting like a spoiled child when unhappy about something.

 

[razztazz]

He was also of Asian ethnicity. Was his ethnicity a contributing factor?

I'm sure his lawyers will try to use that to up the ante. I don't think the airline really cares about throwing an Asian doctor off more than anybody else to the point they beat him up

 

[razztazz]

I simply can't believe there isn't more to the story; it makes no sense as it is. That's not the way any airline has ever handled an overbooked condition in my experience.

Bingo. I'm still wondering if this guy was really a doctor? Did he sound like any doctor you'd want treating you as they were dragging him down the aisle?

 

[CardsFan]

I'm sure his lawyers will try to use that to up the ante. I don't think the airline really cares about throwing an Asian doctor off more than anybody else to the point they beat him up

The AIRLINE did NOT beat him up. He was taken off by Chicago PD

Like it or not it IS a crime to disobey the flight crew.

Not predicting, but willing to bet, that the first test he got was a BAC. No different than anyone who behaves erratically.

 

[Aerides]

We don't see in the videos exactly how he was injured. The "hit head on the headrest" I believe is the police account. But an injury definitely occurred during seat-extraction.

If they overbook, then don't put 204 bodies on the plane for 200 seats. Resolve it at the gate. Void the boarding passes of the 4 you pick. Other airlines bump more, but get a higher voluntary rate (paying guidelines is lame. Pay a bit more for smooth agreement).

Within policy maybe, but deplorable service. The official responses today have also been chilly. United has never been an ideal choice out of my hubs, but I'll certainly avoid them given the opportunity.

The WAPO story I read on this just floored me.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...?utm_term=.04103e18a9a0&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

 

[Just_Steve]

Perhaps this will prompt airlines to deplane aircraft entirely in such cases. Get everyone off the plane, then reboard. Because ouur fellow passengers cannot be trusted to comply with police instructions, and instead insist on acting like a spoiled child when unhappy about something.

+1

 

[sweetana3]

I still remember the case where a quilting instructor flying United was told her computer bag and small sewing machine could not stay in the cabin with her. They were in a hurry to board so she let them check them and move them to luggage while the plane was being readied for take off.

Her laptop and sewing machine were totally destroyed/crushed. Amazing how a cast iron vintage machine can have the base broken off. She has over 100,000 members of her blog and over 30,000 on Facebook. She posted pictures. Took awhile and some complaining but they eventually had to replace the computer and sewing machine.

I will not let anything valuable out of my sight and will never allow a computer to be "checked". Some of the public will remember and I am one of them.

 

[razztazz]

The AIRLINE did NOT beat him up..

I know. It's a good thing I didn't say that or imply that or say anything to make someone who read what I wrote inferr that.

But as someone said earlier: the airline "pushed the button" on him