What Is Your Working Rule On How To Handle Friends Who Are About To Do Stupid Things?

[Sarah in SC]

I have a terrible track record of telling people exactly what I think. Famously I give advice on relationships (gladly informing them that the guy--or girl--is a jerk and to ditch them).
While this makes it so I can sleep at night, knowing I've warned them of some pending pitfalls, it doesn't really make me the kind of person you just "bounce ideas off of".
I wish I could be more like Ha, and consider my actions, but perhaps there will still be time for me to change my ways.
Having said that, I wish you all the tact you can muster, Ha.

 

[Leonidas]

I've lost acquaintances over this sort of thing. Good riddance to most of them, but now I just smile and say some BS and move the conversation along to other topics. But if some of my friends came up with sort of nonsense (unlikely given the decent amount of common sense among them) I would be my usual self and ask - are you f*$(%ng crazy?!?!?

 

[WM]

My best idea is to send them to someone else for the bad news.

I recently established an LLC to do independent consulting work and went to several FREE counseling sessions with SCORE (service corps of retired professionals, I think). It's a bunch of retired businesspeople who volunteer their time through the small business association to mentor people who are starting or having problems with their small business. I think they have chapters in most major cities. The "counselors" I interacted with were definitely helpful and I get the distinct sense that a lot of what they do is try and talk people out of bad ideas. Or at least take them through some discussion and help the person realize it's a bad idea on their own. There's never any charge, and you can go as many times as you want.

 

[CuppaJoe]

I once tried to talk a friend out of putting some of her retirement money into a [deleted] annuity. She was aware of the negative press on the subject but did it anyway. She continued to mention it to me every once in a while, although she seemed embarrassed by it.

 

[bssc]

My friend got into Quixtar. I nodded politely when he told me. Then I nodded no politely when he tried selling me their stuff.

 

[ERD50]

My friend got into Quixtar. I nodded politely when he told me. Then I nodded no politely when he tried selling me their stuff.

Had to google that. Ahhh, Amway and Rich De Vos discover the internet.

Quixtar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Quixtar business model differs from the earlier Amway business model in many aspects, such as the way distribution is performed as well as the products and services offered through partner stores. Rather than ordering product from a distributor who delivers them in person, Quixtar customers can place orders online and have the products shipped to them directly.

Can you still buy their "wonderful" laundry detergent that was concentrated so you only need to use half as much, for 10x the cost of the big name brands? Such a deal.

-ERD50

 

[Urchina]

Ha, do you think they're going to take your advice? If so, give it in good faith. If not, nod and say "Uh-huh, good luck with that."

Or, you could say "Yeah, I remember when I was young and crazy."

 

[mountaintosea]

I've learned to remain silent. If they ask my opinion then I give it. But they usually don't. And I'm usually right.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

Of course, I also have been on the other side, but I couldn't figure out if the friend was trying to be helpful or trying to make sure that nobody became successful. I told the friend that I'm working with for a startup company that recently got purchased by a large multinational because I wanted to see how entrepreneurs think and work. Note that I have not yet joined a startup, but the friend into a 2-hour talk about how startups will never work even if they do get VC funding. Then after trying to explain to him that I'm not at a startup for about 2 hours, I finally hung up the phone. Two weeks later, I got a sarcastic email about how he wished me the greatest success. You tell me what the heck this guy was up to.

 

[haha]

That sounds very annoying.

I don't care what they plan, I will keep mum. It did make me feel a little uneasy, because when a guy destroys his career he often loses more than just a job.

These people area lot of fun, and I want them to be sure to have enough time and money for happy hours and parties.

But unlikely things do well, and seemingly sure things crap out. So I should remember that there are gods, and there are men. I belong to the latter group.

Ha

 

[Free To Canoe]

Much good advice for me also. I need work on the "Judgemental" disease.
ERD50 and Dex's listening link are good.
My cousin told me about his intention of going into business with a friend. Have you made a business plan? No, we are going to "wing it". I liked how I handled that one. One good out of a hundred could stand improvement.

Where is that pie shop?

Free

 

[TromboneAl]

Look them in the eye, pause for a second, and then say:

"You're joking, right?"

 

[MichaelB]

20 years ago we had some friends (a family). The guy had a good job, the woman stayed at home. He was making a long commute to Seattle from our town, so she got the idea that he would quit his job and they would together start a pie shop in the town.

I told them all the reasons why it would likely not work, and promptly lost them as friends. (They didn't do the pie shop, they moved to Seattle and he became a very successful manufacturers' rep in his field.)

But ever since I have always said, WOW, Groovy! no matter what hare-brained scheme a friend might come up with, 'cause I would rather they find out for themselves than chance losing a friendship.

To bring it to the present, Friday night I went out with a group of young people that invites me to functions from time to time. I like them all, and particularly the one couple to whom I feel closest. The guy is a C++ and Java programmer with apparently good skills, and a good high payng job. But for reasons that I don't really understand, he has become philosophically at odds with the corporate world, and so he wants to go together with a couple of semi-employed anarchist philosopher guys to do web design. I am sure they can scrape up some clients, in fact they already have. My feeling though is that there are way better ways to live that scrambling for low end web business.

One of these prospective partners has already lost a good looking woman because her ideas for how he should be spending his life were less laid back than his. My friend also has a Helen of Troy quality GF. I guess I just have a feeling that you shouldn't take too many chances with some types kind of risk.

So, I said WOW, GROOVY at the idea, but I feel not great about it.

What do you folks do?

Ha

Ha, you have to do what lets you sleep well at night. That is, do what's best for you - not in a selfish way, more in a "To thine own self be true" way.

Michael

 

[citrine]

I think that people need to take some risks....and if they are young enough to recover from taking this risk....then wish them all the luck.
I am a firm believer of the "life is short" group and I have yet to regret my escaping corporate america!

 

[deserat]

Several comments:

There are different types of friends...some that you can be brutally honest with and some that are nice to spend time with and some in-between. You need to determine what type of friends these are and whether or not it's important that they stay at the level or move to either of the other levels. If these friends are ones that really do value your opinion, then be brutally honest. If they are merely nice to spend time with, then in my estimation it really doesn't matter what either party thinks.

As for starting your own business, I'm with WM. In fact, I just started my own LLC consulting business. Several changes in my life 'forced' a re-evaluation. However, before I made that choice, I did a lot of personal research: I interviewed several other consultants in the field asking them how they set up their business, what they charge, how they work, etc. I also read books on starting your own business and different types of business models. I figured out what I could charge and how much I would need to make to meet certain goals. I spoke with prospective clients asking them if they would hire me for consulting jobs and what for. In short, I tried to make as informed a decision I could - what was the unknown? The current economic slump or the depth of it - however, one could look at this as an opportunity for a consultant if you have just one project to be done - you don't need to hire an employee, you can hire someone to do just that job.

I know I'm cluttering up a retirement board with 'work' stuff, however, *if* your friends ask what you think, you might ask them how they came to that decision and what research they did into the pros and cons. Frankly, you might learn something yourself. As for your opinion, you notice with that approach you've asked them for theirs along with rationale and after listening can decide if you agree or disagree and/or even share that.

 

[TromboneAl]

Sometimes the things people ask make you realize that they are so out of touch with reality, that it's probably not a good idea to be friends with them.

 

[Trek]

Any "friend" that asks my opinion, doesn't like it and then stops being my "friend", clearly wasn't a friend. I try to be supportive, but at the same time honest with all my friends and it works out well. They do the same for me.

I think many people (not saying the OP) tend to categorize acquaintances as friends.

 

[haha]

Any "friend" that asks my opinion, doesn't like it and then stops being my "friend", clearly wasn't a friend.

I wonder if you see a flaw in this line of reasoning? What do we do, ask our executor to examine our life history and determine who was and was not a friend?

That is like saying that any wife who decided to move on wasn't really a wife. Maybe she, and the friends whom you put in some other category after an event, just didn't like the way things went down.

Ha

 

[ls99]

Had married friends waay back when I was young an single, they told me about them wanting to buy into a partnership in a bar. 50/50 proposition with some other folks.

Never been known as a diplomat, my first question blurted out, you really want a messy divorce?

Long story made short: they dis buy into the bar, 2 yrs later began a messy divorce, three years later divorce finalized. Huge expense in money and emotions expanded by both of them. Lost them as friends as well.

Now I offer no advice even if asked. My usual response is, I really don't know enough about the nuts and bolts of (insert proposition here) to even consider giving advice.

It is nice to watch ships sail, some put on quiet a show, some never make it out of the harbor.

 

[harley]

If I had any friends, and they asked me about something like this, I'd say something like "Man, I'd never have the 'nads for something like that. Best of luck to you, and make sure you have a backup plan. "

 

[Amethyst]

I wonder if you see a flaw in this line of reasoning? What do we do, ask our executor to examine our life history and determine who was and was not a friend?

Mr. Ha, you raised an interesting question. Given that most people would agree there's a difference between friendly acquaintances and friends, and you can't tell the difference until something happens that tests the relationship, the only reason the difference even matters is that we all have a limited amount of time, so it makes sense to maximize the time spent with 'real" friends, who'll stick by you if need be, rather than "surface" friends who'll dump you with ease.

In other words, if nothing bad or crosswise ever happens, then you can be just as content having lots of friendly acquaintances, as having friends.

(Spouses are a whole different ball game, IMHO...separate rules apply)

 

[freebird5825]

To bring it to the present, Friday night I went out with a group of young people that invites me to functions from time to time...he has become philosophically at odds with the corporate world, and so he wants to go together with a couple of semi-employed anarchist philosopher guys to do web design...way better ways to live that scrambling for low end web business.
...So, I said WOW, GROOVY at the idea, but I feel not great about it.
What do you folks do?
Ha

Disclaimer: I am a very direct person, so keep that in mind as you read this.
If they are just brainstorming, no harm done. Dreaming is good for the soul. Everyone wants to grow up to be a video game programmer these days.

If they are serious about ditching real paycheck generating j*bs for virtual j*bs, going for the pie-in-the-sky, more power to them. Suggest they visit the local Small Business Admin office or refer them to talk to any persons (known to you) who may have already tried this. You have no obligation to approve of or be supportive of the manner in which they earn their living.

If they are telling you their idea so they can try to hit you up for startup funds, run like hell.

 

[haha]

Disclaimer: I am a very direct person, so keep that in mind as you read this.
If they are just brainstorming, no harm done. Dreaming is good for the soul. Everyone wants to grow up to be a video game programmer these days.

If they are serious about ditching real paycheck generating j*bs for virtual j*bs, going for the pie-in-the-sky, more power to them. Suggest they visit the local Small Business Admin office or refer them to talk to any persons (known to you) who may have already tried this. You have no obligation to approve of or be supportive of the manner in which they earn their living.

If they are telling you their idea so they can try to hit you up for startup funds, run like hell.

I find it hard to know what people might be thinking. I do not think they would have much hope of getting money from me, because I am not the sort who plays millionaire, either at home or on TV.

Anyway, I have known these guys and most of the women for several years and I like them as much as I have ever liked anybody. Maybe I am just not paranoid enough to be a proper member of E-R.org.

Ha

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

Disclaimer: I am a very direct person, so keep that in mind as you read this.
If they are just brainstorming, no harm done. Dreaming is good for the soul. Everyone wants to grow up to be a video game programmer these days.

If they are serious about ditching real paycheck generating j*bs for virtual j*bs, going for the pie-in-the-sky, more power to them. Suggest they visit the local Small Business Admin office or refer them to talk to any persons (known to you) who may have already tried this. You have no obligation to approve of or be supportive of the manner in which they earn their living.

If they are telling you their idea so they can try to hit you up for startup funds, run like hell.

You can make a crap load of money (or none at all) as a video game programmer. Look at Lord British. He recently paid $20 million to fly to the Russian space station. I knew that he had money from all the games. I just didn't know that he was rich enough to part with $20 million bucks for one trip.

 

[dex]

Maybe I am just not paranoid enough to be a proper member of E-R.org.

I'm guessing you have many other qualities that qualify you for membership; if you think about it.