when to replace heat pump HVAC?

[escape]

The 2.5 ton 11 SEER Trane heat pump that was installed in 2007 (14 years old) required 3 and 1/2 lbs of refrigerant (the really nasty old stuff). Local HVAC guy will refund 60% of cost of refrigerant if I replace with a new system within a month. I'm considering replacing with a Run Tru, which is made by Trane same warranty - same price but higher SEER.

I have NO experience with HVAC heat pumps. Kind advice would be appreciated particularly about:
1. how risky is it to just burn the one I have out at this point. Some days the temps top 90 F with 1000% humidity and then in the winter some days are well below freezing and given current supply chain issues it might take a week to get it replaced;
2. Thoughts about how much i might save with a new one. I have solar panels that currently cover about 1/2 my electrical costs;
3. Any experience with Run Tru? Bryant (made by Carrier)?
4. Anything else that might help me?

Thank you!

 

[OldShooter]

What is the problem? I had a low freon problem maybe 6 years ago, got the whole sales pitch for a new system, but added 1# of freon and it ran for three years. Then low freon again, same pitch, added 3# this time, still running fine today. System is about 28YO.

 

[Sunset]

Did they seal/solder/braze the hole that leaked the refrigerant ?

If they did, you could get years out of the old one.

 

[jazz4cash]

Did they also find the leak and repair it? That’s a lot of refrigerant. Heat pumps wear our quicker since they run year round. Our builder grade Goodman unit was done after 12 yrs. Can’t recall what failed. Newer heat pumps don’t use the backup mode ($$$) as much as older units (so I’m told). Id get 3 quotes and lean towards replacing.

 

[OldShooter]

Did they seal/solder/braze the hole that leaked the refrigerant ? If they did, you could get years out of the old one.

This is an HVAC shop I've had good luck with. What they said was that a hairline crack could be anywhere and would be almost impossible to find. So there was no hole to find or fix. Just add the Freon and roll the dice that the leak is so tiny that I'd get a few more years out of the system. So far, so good. IIRC the second fill cost about $100/lb. Replacement system will be $2K+ and I know it is coming.

Edit: This is just an AC, not a full heat pump.

 

[REWahoo]

Since a heat pump runs significantly more than an AC only unit, my experience is their average life is about 12 years. If it was me, I'd opt for a replacement unit, especially with an existing SEER of only 11 since a higher efficiency replacement unit will reduce your monthly utility bill going forward.

However, I agree you should opt for a unit with a SEER a notch or two below the maximum. That seems to be the sweet spot.

 

[travelover]

I'd second the advice to get three estimates. When I replaced my system a few years ago, the difference between quotes was thousands of dollars. That refund of 60% of refrigerant cost may be insignificant.

 

[braumeister]

Our current heat pump was installed 7 years ago by the prior owner, so I won't have to think about this for a while. But in our last house I had to replace everything in 2005. What I found is that there was an enormous disparity among the bids I got from local companies. The one that really got my attention was the outfit that advertised most heavily in our area, and they were the only one that pushed Trane (which is also very heavily advertised). I'm sure they're good, but very overpriced in my opinion.

We went with another company that installed a generic Goodman unit. It ran flawlessly for the next ten years that we owned the house, and AFAIK is still working well. And we paid less than half what the Trane installer wanted.

So I was a bit surprised when we bought this place and it had a Trane system that had just recently been installed. It's fine, but I suspect he overpaid for it. I would be likely to replace it with something else when needed. The other thing is that when we moved in we discovered that it had been very poorly installed. I called another company in to correct it. So I think the local HVAC company's expertise is at least as important as the brand of heat pump you get.

 

[REWahoo]

brau, interesting that your experience is with Trane and Goodman. Consumer Reports did a survey of 24,000 members in 2018 and 2020 who had installed central AC units since 2005, asking about reliability. Of the 21 brands rated, Trane was #1 and Goodman was #21.

 

[braumeister]

Of the 21 brands rated, Trane was #1 and Goodman was #21.

 

[freedomatlast]

I had a unit at a rental property that was starting to leak refrigerant. I was getting bids to replace it when I figured, what the heck, I may as well add a can of Cliplight Superseal HVACR to the system and see what happens. The system was already 28 years old at the time and ended up getting another 12 years out of it with no more refrigerant leakage after adding the Superseal.

 

[Walt34]

This is an HVAC shop I've had good luck with. What they said was that a hairline crack could be anywhere and would be almost impossible to find. So there was no hole to find or fix.

Unless Freon leaks have gotten a lot harder to find I'm skeptical about this, it sounds more like they don't want to bother looking for the leak and want to sell you a new unit. When I worked on HVAC stuff in the '70's we used a combination of soap solution and a then fancy electronic gizmo that could sometimes sense a leak, more often than not at a joint. We did find and repair a lot of leaks.

 

[Lewis Clark]

If you get a new unit, be sure to check in advance if it will qualify for federal tax credits for energy efficient appliances.
https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits

Also check in advance with your power company to see if they offer rebates.

We installed a new heat pump last year and got a power company rebate and federal tax credit.

 

[Sunset]

Unless Freon leaks have gotten a lot harder to find I'm skeptical about this, it sounds more like they don't want to bother looking for the leak and want to sell you a new unit. When I worked on HVAC stuff in the '70's we used a combination of soap solution and a then fancy electronic gizmo that could sometimes sense a leak, more often than not at a joint. We did find and repair a lot of leaks.

That is what I was thinking while reading the thread.
We have propane piped around our vacation cabin, and every now and then, I have to go along the line with a strong dishsoap solution and brush to check for leaks.

I do the same when hooking up a new propane tank to the system, else I could be wasting a lot of propane.

 

[Amethyst]

We had 2 heat pumps replaced at our MD home in 2014 - they were 24 years old and one had a broken fan, so it was time.

One of the new Carrier units began leaking almost immediately. The "fix" under warranty was to spray sealant into the system. It worked, and we had zero problems for the next 5 years. We then sold the house - the system passed inspection and no doubt continued to perform well.

 

[Bamaman]

Since your old unit is 14 years old and uses that really expensive coolant, you should consider going with a new unit.

I recently had to replace a 26 year old Trane heat pump (split) in my lake house, and the bids received were from $5400 to $12K--depending on SSER. I find the HVAC business to be somewhat inconsistent in pricing--and many contractors go for the throats of their customers.

Come to find out, many of the major manufacturers have brand name systems, and they also have off brand names--both made in the same factory out of the same components with the same 10 year warranty.

I went with a 3 ton offbrand Rheem for $4,200 which included all new sheet metal on the air return end of the system. And so far so good--works great. The contractor runs a small, low cost 3 man operation instead of having a big, expensive organization.

 

[Masquernom]

Most, but not all, leaks are in the evaporator coil inside the house. There are refrigerant leak detectors that can tell if that's where the leak is. A lot of HVAC companies don't want to spend the time to find and repair a leak. You can buy your own leak detector fairly cheaply, but getting into the coil may be difficult.

If by chance you determine the leak is in the coil, be careful of replacing an old copper coil with the new aluminum ones. I found out residual copper will corrode the new aluminum coils very quickly and ruin the new coil. You have to buy the correct, cased, new coil and best to put tape over all the inside of the insulation/duct where the old coil sat.

 

[Out of Steam]

brau, interesting that your experience is with Trane and Goodman. Consumer Reports did a survey of 24,000 members in 2018 and 2020 who had installed central AC units since 2005, asking about reliability. Of the 21 brands rated, Trane was #1 and Goodman was #21.

From what I've seen in HVAC forums, the biggest issue with Goodman reliability is that they sell equipment to DIYers and uncertified techs, where most better-known brands sell only to companies and installers they have vetted.

This would suggest less difference between the brands than indicated, as long as one has a professional installer.

 

[Joylush]

brau, interesting that your experience is with Trane and Goodman. Consumer Reports did a survey of 24,000 members in 2018 and 2020 who had installed central AC units since 2005, asking about reliability. Of the 21 brands rated, Trane was #1 and Goodman was #21.

Much of that is simply due to the fact that anyone can install a Goodman. You pay more some of the name brand systems like Carrier or Trane because they don’t let anyone install them.

Carrier is also highly rated. They have several other product lines, like Bryant for instance. You can find Bryant models that are the exact same units as Carrier they just put a different name on them.

Yet Bryant will be rated lower because they don’t police the installers like they do the Carrier branded units.

The installation is more important than the brand.

 

[REWahoo]

This would suggest less difference between the brands than indicated, as long as one has a professional installer.

^ This.

My recent experience: we had a Trane heat pump installed when we built our house in '98. The coil failed after eight years and we had it replaced, then got a total of 12 years out of the unit. I went with an Amana (Goodman) replacement, purchased from and installed by a reputable company. The coil failed after 10 years and we had it replaced. The unit is now 12 years old and I've budgeted for a replacement this year or next.

 

[ModestNestEgg]

We went with another company that installed a generic Goodman unit. It ran flawlessly for the next ten years that we owned the house, and AFAIK is still working well. And we paid less than half what the Trane installer wanted.

Goodmans are incredible workhorses and one of the most underrated brands around! I have one that has been here since I bought my house. It was installed in 2000 by the previous owner and it's done really well for me with regular checkups. It did have to have new refrigerant added earlier this year. I hope it continues to hold up! I have a friend who had worked in the HVAC industry tell me that they are a very dependable brand that is very affordable, but they are a contractor grade brand that aren't marketed towards the typical homeowner like some of the larger names.

Just to pass along another bit of information he shared: I asked if there were any brands to be more careful of. He said Lennox units are harder to find parts for in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

We had refrigerant loss due to a bad coil. Based on age of system we are replacing. If the condenser ever comes in. Keeps sliding right.

 

[ERD50]

We had refrigerant loss due to a bad coil. Based on age of system we are replacing. If the condenser ever comes in. Keeps sliding right.

Might not apply in your case, but we just had our (inside) coil for our 13 YO A/C replaced. The guy said that if the compressor goes, you didn't waste the money on the new inside coil, they will reuse it.

-ERD50

 

[RetiredHappy]

We just bought a 22-year old home. It came with 2 Carriers (3 Ton and 5 Ton), still original and running. We decided to replace with 2 Carriers again (3 Ton and 5 Ton), at 16 SEER. However with trucking and availability issues, just before installation we were told that they could not provide us with 2 Carriers. For the same price the installer suggested to replace with 1 Carrier and 1 Bryant, same size/SEER rating. We buckled and decided to do it. Our electricity bill immediately ran lower, somewhere between $100 to $150 less this past month. In the next 20 years with these 2 new systems, we will get our money back.

 

[Koolau]

Probably just the cheap streak in me, but I think I'd look for the leak. IIRC there is a fluorescent dye that can be added to a batch of freon. If there is a significant leak, it should be possible to find it. It might take a technician to do if you aren't handy. YMMV