Whole house generator

[REWahoo]

We're in Virginia, and the summer heat here scares me more than the cold.

Funny. A few weeks ago I would have said exactly the same thing about our location here in S Central TX.

 

[Koolau]

We're in Virginia, and the summer heat here scares me more than the cold.

Oh, yes! I still recall the oppressive heat in Northern Virginia when we visited Colonial Williamsburg and Mount Vernon. I was gasping just walking around in the July heat and humidity. I recall the uniforms worn by Civil War combatants and wondered how they survived the summer heat. YMMV

 

[Scubamax]

Out of curiosity from this thread, I looked up the Cummins generator. If I was in the market, I'd look at them closely. The claim that they run at 1800rpm is interesting. If true, that should make them more quiet and require less maintenance and it should generate less stress on the motor. I have a Generac and I think it runs closer to 3000rpm. The noise on mine isn't bad, but I'm sure that rpm creates more wear.

That was the big decision point in my book to get the Cummins. Plus I was told that reputation wise Cummins was just “better built” vs the competition.

 

[Out of Steam]

Oh, yes! I still recall the oppressive heat in Northern Virginia when we visited Colonial Williamsburg and Mount Vernon. I was gasping just walking around in the July heat and humidity.

We were at Colonial Williamsburg two weeks ago, and my wife said that her memories of the place were just about all of oppressive heat.

 

[Out of Steam]

Funny. A few weeks ago I would have said exactly the same thing about our location here in S Central TX.

Weather has gone wild over the past 30 years.

In the Mid-Atlantic states, subzero cold has just about gone away within 100-150 miles of the ocean, yet the number of large snowfalls has increased.

 

[Winemaker]

It’s a common misconception that Cummins only makes diesel. Not true. They make propane and NG fired engines for back up power. I have one and it’s great.

Didn't know that! Thanks for straightening me up.

 

[folivier]

Cummins has owned Onan for many years.

 

[kjpliny]

The Cummins RS25, RS30 and larger units are some of the best on the market. Liquid cooled, 1800 RPM, quiet, natural gas or propane fueled, excellent build quality, easy to service. You will spend more, but you get what you pay for.

Here is an install the guy did by himself:

 

[NW-Bound]

We were at Colonial Williamsburg two weeks ago, and my wife said that her memories of the place were just about all of oppressive heat.

I just read on the Web someone who lived in the south or southeast who says his location was so humid that he put some leather car seats in his garage for storage, and they turned all moldy after a while. He had to install a mini-split for his garage to dehumidify it.

 

[NW-Bound]

The Cummins RS25, RS30 and larger units are some of the best on the market. Liquid cooled, 1800 RPM, quiet, natural gas or propane fueled, excellent build quality, easy to service. You will spend more, but you get what you pay for.

Here is an install the guy did by himself:

I just looked out of curiosity. The RS25 is around $11K. The just-a-tad smaller RS20 is only $5K, but runs at 3600 rpm instead of 1800 rpm. Huge difference in price for the lower speed and less noise.

 

[kjpliny]

I just looked out of curiosity. The RS25 is around $11K. The just-a-tad smaller RS20 is only $5K, but runs at 3600 rpm instead of 1800 rpm. Huge difference in price for the lower speed and less noise.

Yep. Those 3600 RPM air cooled units are loud and aren't built to run for long periods. The liquid cooled 1800 RPM units will most likely outlast them in longevity with proper maintenance by at least a factor of two, and increase reliability for extended outages as well. I look at generators from an insurance perspective, not an investment perspective...this is not an area I would want to cheap out in.

If you're out of power for 2+ weeks and your air cooled unit craps out after a few days due to "overuse" with no available technicians...was it worth saving the initial money while your family and pipes freeze and your food goes bad? Each person would need to make this decision based on their budget and risk tolerance.

For those who are more budget conscious, they could always get the cheaper whole house unit, and also keep an inverter genset in the garage as a backup, with a separate interlock and input box to power the panel. I have the Honda, but Champion makes a relatively cheap model with enough power for most household appliances for around $1k.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/CHAMPIO...Generator-with-420-cc-Engine-100520/312596603

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

This has been a great thread!

I've thought (for a couple years now), about a whole house generator. For me, it's not just the initial cost, but these issues:

1. I'm turned off by any yearly maintenance cost (I've heard figures around $300 for a service contract, that would include the required oil changes, etc.)
2. I don't have much space around the house for a unit (we are on a small lot)
3. Like central air, these units no doubt will eventually break/fail and cost more $ I haven't heard anyone mentioning life expectancy.

Based on the discussion, I just bought a 1,000 watt pure sine wave inverter I can hook up to my car battery, just to power the fridge, freezer, and gas furnace water circulator (70 watts). Since the freezer will keep stuff frozen for 24 hours if kept closed, that doesn't need to be powered continuously. I can also cycle the fridge and furnace circulator, so I can turn off the car engine periodically. The inverter and wires cost around $200.

That eliminates the hassles of a small generator - periodic maintenance, storage, and stockpiling separate gas.

I do have to investigate and pull the trigger on a water powered sump pump device, as that's still an issue for me. Even if I had a whole house generator, the sump pump could go bad one day so that needs a backup solution regardless.

 

[aja8888]

\

Based on the discussion, I just bought a 1,000 watt pure sine wave inverter I can hook up to my car battery, just to power the fridge, freezer, and gas furnace water circulator (70 watts). Since the freezer will keep stuff frozen for 24 hours if kept closed, that doesn't need to be powered continuously. I can also cycle the fridge and furnace circulator, so I can turn off the car engine periodically. The inverter and wires cost around $200.

That eliminates the hassles of a small generator - periodic maintenance, storage, and stockpiling separate gas.

Using the car battery as a power source means you will have to run the car engine to keep the battery charged when powering the inverter, correct?

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Using the car battery as a power source means you will have to run the car engine to keep the battery charged when powering the inverter, correct?

Definitely yes, if you're powering stuff like a fridge or freezer for any length of time.

It looks like an idling engine will use about .5 gals per hour, or less for a 4 cylinder.

 

[travelover]

I noticed that Costco has the Firman 2000 watt inverter generator on sale for $350. Given Costco's generous return policy, I think that 's a steal.


The sale is at the store, here is the on-line description.

 

[REWahoo]

I noticed that Costco has the Firman 2000 watt inverter generator on sale for $350. Given Costco's generous return policy, I think that 's a steal.

$350 isn't a bad price for this inverter generator.

FWIW this generator is only rated at 1,600 continuous watts and isn't large enough to meet my needs during an outage. Be sure to determine your total wattage requirements before blowing your dough.

 

[Koolau]

$350 isn't a bad price for this inverter generator.

FWIW this generator is only rated at 1,600 continuous watts and isn't large enough to meet my needs during an outage. Be sure to determine your total wattage requirements before blowing your dough.

No idea what I'm talking about, but sometimes a fridge (or anything with a motor) needs a LOT of juice to get started. Be certain to read the specs on fridge or other items with a motor to be certain your generator can handle it. YMMV

 

[sengsational]

Definitely yes, if you're powering stuff like a fridge or freezer for any length of time.

It looks like an idling engine will use about .5 gals per hour, or less for a 4 cylinder.

This might be the easiest/cheapest for what I want: run the the gas furnace.

The plate on the furnace says "Max Amps: 8.4", so on the hairy edge of the 1000 watt models. There's a pretty cheap one on Amazon I just found. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-1250-Value-Inverter/dp/B000KK295Y/ref=sr_1_2

 

[Koolau]

This might be the easiest/cheapest for what I want: run the the gas furnace.

The plate on the furnace says "Max Amps: 8.4", so on the hairy edge of the 1000 watt models. There's a pretty cheap one on Amazon I just found. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-1250-Value-Inverter/dp/B000KK295Y/ref=sr_1_2

I'm a total hack on this subject, but I'm guessing your car will need to run at more than idle to produce the extra 1000 watts (delivered) with all the losses added in. Maybe it will recognize the load on the alternator and adjust accordingly. I notice my cars idles faster if I turn on a significant load (headlights, AC, etc.). YMMV

 

[travelover]

$350 isn't a bad price for this inverter generator.

FWIW this generator is only rated at 1,600 continuous watts and isn't large enough to meet my needs during an outage. Be sure to determine your total wattage requirements before blowing your dough.

Right, this is not whole house generator, but it would put out enough power to run a fridge or a furnace or a lot of LED lights. I use a Honda 2000 surge / 1600 continuous watt generator to run the rooftop AC on my camper trailer

No idea what I'm talking about, but sometimes a fridge (or anything with a motor) needs a LOT of juice to get started. Be certain to read the specs on fridge or other items with a motor to be certain your generator can handle it. YMMV

It is true that electric motors have a large surge current but I think you'd be surprised at what one of these inverter generators can power, one appliance at a time. The real appeal of this type of generator is that it is very quiet and fuel efficient because the engine only runs as fast as needed to power the load. The frequency output is independent of the engine speed.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

This might be the easiest/cheapest for what I want: run the the gas furnace.

The plate on the furnace says "Max Amps: 8.4", so on the hairy edge of the 1000 watt models. There's a pretty cheap one on Amazon I just found. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-1250-Value-Inverter/dp/B000KK295Y/ref=sr_1_2

The description claims it will handle devices up to 10 amps, so in theory it should.

I didn't notice any mention of cables in the product pages, so that would probably be something else you'd need to buy. I've noticed some inverters on amazon including cables, but the cables are undersized (too thin) for the unit's maximum output. And some of these same products have reviews complaining about overheating and melted cables, which I think is directly due to the undersized cables.

For 1000 watts, you'd need 4 AWG cables. Rather than buying cables with the right connectors for the inverter, some people start with regular car jumper cables, cut them in half, and then put the right inverter connectors on the cut ends, so you end up with 2 sets.

Here's the inverter I'm getting -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XYR1BS3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm going with a pure sine wave just to be extra cautious with the fridge and freezer motors.

Here's the premade cable -
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079C5646N/?coliid=ITTGBLA64O8WI&colid=1WKPR8LV7DTV2&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Parts to make your own -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QQ1DV4S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2VCRMZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and a crimper if you don't have a tool already -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E1UUVT0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


All of this is YMMV. I'm not an engineer, but this is what I have pieced together from various websites. I determined the cable sizing by looking at product pages on theinverterstore.com and seeing what they spec for various inverter wattages.

 

[sengsational]

The description claims it will handle devices up to 10 amps, so in theory it should.

I didn't notice any mention of cables in the product pages, so that would probably be something else you'd need to buy. ...

Thanks for putting together that research and posting it.

I happen to have an extra set of jumper cables already. They look to have pretty thick wire. I might just get out the hammer, hacksaw, and drill to make my own lugs out of some copper I have laying around.

 

[REWahoo]

I use a Honda 2000 surge / 1600 continuous watt generator to run the rooftop AC on my camper trailer.

That Honda is the gold standard in small inverter generators, with a price to match.

I wanted something that could power the RV AC and other stuff as well, so I ended up buying a Wen 3800 surge/3400 continuous inverter generator when it went on sale in December. It really came through for us during the Feb Freeze and we were really happy with how quietly it runs.

 

[ls99]

This might be the easiest/cheapest for what I want: run the the gas furnace.

The plate on the furnace says "Max Amps: 8.4", so on the hairy edge of the 1000 watt models. There's a pretty cheap one on Amazon I just found. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-1250-Value-Inverter/dp/B000KK295Y/ref=sr_1_2

It shows as Modified Sine Wave inverter. The furnace motor and blower will run a bit noisy and warmer than normal. In some instances it can create problems.

 

[Texas Proud]

Out of curiosity from this thread, I looked up the Cummins generator. If I was in the market, I'd look at them closely. The claim that they run at 1800rpm is interesting. If true, that should make them more quiet and require less maintenance and it should generate less stress on the motor. I have a Generac and I think it runs closer to 3000rpm. The noise on mine isn't bad, but I'm sure that rpm creates more wear.

FYI, the smaller ones from all companies are air cooled and run at 3600 rpm...


The larger ones are water cooled (think car engine) and run at 1800 rpm.


The cost of water cooled is about twice that of air cooled....



Most air cooled top out at 20KW with Generac having a 22KW and now a 24KW... water cooled go WAY up from there...






Adding more... as to the ability to run for many hours/days the air cooled SEEM to be able to do it, but a rep from generac said that you would need to stop it every 24 hours to let it cool down a bit and check the oil... I read a manual that recommended you check every 8 hours of run time...


Have not read anything on the water cooled but would think it is not even close... but could be wrong..