Why not drive a Tesla?

Wow. Just signed-up to read up on early retirement stuff and I find an active Tesla thread with so much misinformation that I just can't ignore. Okay, there's just too much misinformation here for me to address in my post (frankly, I'm just overwhelmed after reading every post in this thread in one shot), but I will add in my experience.

I reserved a Model S back in September 2012 and received one of the first 5,000 cars in early 2013. We needed a bigger car because my wife was pregnant with our first child. A minivan/SUV was in consideration, but taking into account the fuel costs (Bay Area, California) and the miles we drive (22-25k per year), the cost of ownership for the Tesla would be essentially equal. This depended on some assumptions about fuel and electricity costs, but my assumptions have mostly held true for the past 4 years. I thought I would much rather put the same amount of money in a better car than in fuel that is burned-up.

Beside the obvious benefits (quiet drivetrain, instant torque, cheaper fuel), the truly eye-opening benefits of electric became clear only after taking ownership for a month or so. I will give just two examples. Getting a baby to sleep is the most challenging task for new parents. Now, we could let our daughter finish her nap in the car in a closed garage with the A/C or heater running when we get home. The frunk is large enough to hold a full size stroller (with lots of room to spare) and this leaves the entire trunk usable for Costco/Target/Home Depot/BabiesRUs runs -- Even SUVs and Minivans have a hard time with cargo space if you carry a stroller in the back. There are tons of other little (big to us) benefits that you just don't realize are possible until you own the car.

The car is now 4.5 years old and about to hit 100,000 miles. The battery has degraded about 5%, or about 12 miles of range out of 265 miles. We have only replaced the tires. No other maintenance was required. We drive from the Bay Area to Disneyland (800 mile round trip) about 6 or 7 times each year without any issues.

All in all, it was a life changing decision. I was an avid performance car guy and I'm a changed man. Also, soon after buying the Tesla, I got a new job that is 40 miles away from home. Driving my wife's 4-cyl Honda Accord means getting gas every 3-4 days. I did that for a year before buying a used Toyota Rav4 EV and selling all of our gasoline cars. Now, whenever I text my wife I'm coming home, I'm going straight home (in the carpool lane) -- no more walking to the car only to realize I need to get gas during the most crowded time of the day. No more paying $40-50 per tank every 3-4 days when that same amount can fuel an electric car for the entire month.
 
Ken830. Glad to have another tesla owner/supporter. I am getting beat up on this forum by giving my real world experience with my tesla 85d with 50k

No one understands the experience without owning one.
 
Wow. Just signed-up to read up on early retirement stuff and I find an active Tesla thread with so much ...

...

All in all, it was a life changing decision. I was an avid performance car guy and I'm a changed man. ....

Heck, you've still got a great performance car. :) Glad it worked out so well for you. If we lived on the west coast and didn't have several long, non-interstate drives a year through the great flyover zone, I'd likely be seriously investigating a Tesla. But, no car is perfect for everyone.

Welcome to the site. :flowers:
 
Wow. Just signed-up to read up on early retirement stuff and I find an active Tesla thread with so much misinformation that I just can't ignore. Okay, there's just too much misinformation here for me to address ...

I'm curious about all this misinformation. It's a long thread now with lots of different views chiming in, so I might have missed something - can you be specific?
Ken830. Glad to have another tesla owner/supporter. I am getting beat up on this forum by giving my real world experience with my tesla 85d with 50k

No one understands the experience without owning one.

Is there "beating up" in this thread? Again, I guess I missed it, can you point it out.

I have no doubt it's an impressive car to drive.

-ERD50
 
Ken830. Glad to have another tesla owner/supporter. I am getting beat up on this forum by giving my real world experience with my tesla 85d with 50k

No one understands the experience without owning one.

Stick to giving your own real world experience instead of misleading people with very questionable info and you wouldn't be catching flak. Not from me anyway. I'm still waiting for a source on the 95% of people buy a second Tesla claim. Ken bought a RAV 4 so I guess the next 19 people must've opted for a second Tesla?

OK, here's a real life experience I'd be very interested in, from anyone who lives 2-3 hours from a service center. How is that working out? Is it timely, and is it good? I'm especially interested in anyone who has had a problem, and not just scheduled service.
 
Originally Posted by tim59 View Post
Ken830. Glad to have another tesla owner/supporter. I am getting beat up on this forum by giving my real world experience with my tesla 85d with 50k

No one understands the experience without owning one.
Stick to giving your own real world experience instead of misleading people with very questionable info and you wouldn't be catching flak. Not from me anyway. I'm still waiting for a source on the 95% of people buy a second Tesla claim. Ken bought a RAV 4 so I guess the next 19 people must've opted for a second Tesla? ...

OK, I just took a minute to skim the earlier posts from tim59, and I have to agree with RunningBum. tim59 made a number of claims based on his specific situation as if they applied to everyone (free charging for life, 'Range is never an issue.').

And the claim from tim59 that 95% of Tesla owners who buy another car buy a Tesla (not "would buy" he said, but actually bought). Hard to believe, but if you provide a good source...

-ERD50
 
I'll do a search for the 95 %.
I stated that range is a non issue for me and most tesla owners even though I was scared about this before
buying

Certainly didn't try to decieve anyone that range was free for life for me or anyone that is referred by another tesla owner.

Again not free for model 3

Cleared up the misconception that
The estimated tesla website electric cost is not what tesla charges but what it costs a typical home owner
 
My electric company just sent me a note suggesting I look at a time of use plan, where the rates are only 13-14 cents after 10pm, but peak as high as 34 cents between 2-8pm. That compares to my current plan where the rates start at 16 cents and climb to 31 cents as I use more electricity.

The Tesla owners I've spoken with all seem to like the time of use plan, because they can program their Tesla to begin charging at 10pm and still have a full charge when they wake up.

I rarely use air conditioning during the day, so I could easily keep our usage down prior to 8pm on this plan. Has anyone else switched to this plan and found it beneficial?
 
Survey from Prenzler Digital Media quoted in April 2016:
296 respondents.
92% of owners would purchase another Tesla in the future.

Consumer Reports survey quoted in December 2016:
No data on how many respondents.
91% of owners stating they would buy another.

As for range limitation and areas without many superchargers, the most frequent comment I see online from Tesla owners is "Well, if I had to make a long trip like that, I'd just fly."
 
Just to let you know, other car companies are also monitoring your movements... not as intrusive as Tesla, but still...

Yep, I was aware and that's another reason I've not been anxious to upgrade to a newer car. Eventually, there will be no choice, I suppose. YMMV
 
Well I certainly have enjoyed the perspectives from the Tesla owners.

Maybe DH and I will own one in this lifetime.
 
91-92% Tesla owners repurchase level noted from a couple of sources vs. claimed 95%. Dear Lord, what an epic fail! This staggering level of failure is simply not allowed at a proper engineer driven forum such as ER.org
 
Erd50. What car do you own and what are your experiences that we should compare to a tesla?

Not sure what that has to do with anything, other than sounding like an attempt to distract from backing up your repeated claim that 95% of Tesla owners who have bought another car have bought (not "would have bought") a Tesla.


My cars aren't in the price range of a Tesla, I bought them for different reasons than the reasons that I would use if I were to buy a Tesla, so there is no sense to try to compare them. And the thread isn't about my (boring, because that's what I chose) cars.

-ERD50
 
Based on Consumer reports, looks like owner satisfaction may be high but reliability isn't a particular Tesla strong point when considering the total population .....

"Owner satisfaction is still tops, but reliability is a mixed bag: The Model S is average, but the Model X is well-below average, and among the 10 least-reliable models in our survey."
Source: Tesla - Consumer Reports
 
Wow. Just signed-up to read up on early retirement stuff and I find an active Tesla thread with so much misinformation that I just can't ignore. Okay, there's just too much misinformation here for me to address in my post (frankly, I'm just overwhelmed after reading every post in this thread in one shot), but I will add in my experience.

I reserved a Model S back in September 2012 and received one of the first 5,000 cars in early 2013. We needed a bigger car because my wife was pregnant with our first child. A minivan/SUV was in consideration, but taking into account the fuel costs (Bay Area, California) and the miles we drive (22-25k per year), the cost of ownership for the Tesla would be essentially equal. This depended on some assumptions about fuel and electricity costs, but my assumptions have mostly held true for the past 4 years. I thought I would much rather put the same amount of money in a better car than in fuel that is burned-up.

Beside the obvious benefits (quiet drivetrain, instant torque, cheaper fuel), the truly eye-opening benefits of electric became clear only after taking ownership for a month or so. I will give just two examples. Getting a baby to sleep is the most challenging task for new parents. Now, we could let our daughter finish her nap in the car in a closed garage with the A/C or heater running when we get home. The frunk is large enough to hold a full size stroller (with lots of room to spare) and this leaves the entire trunk usable for Costco/Target/Home Depot/BabiesRUs runs -- Even SUVs and Minivans have a hard time with cargo space if you carry a stroller in the back. There are tons of other little (big to us) benefits that you just don't realize are possible until you own the car.

The car is now 4.5 years old and about to hit 100,000 miles. The battery has degraded about 5%, or about 12 miles of range out of 265 miles. We have only replaced the tires. No other maintenance was required. We drive from the Bay Area to Disneyland (800 mile round trip) about 6 or 7 times each year without any issues.

All in all, it was a life changing decision. I was an avid performance car guy and I'm a changed man. Also, soon after buying the Tesla, I got a new job that is 40 miles away from home. Driving my wife's 4-cyl Honda Accord means getting gas every 3-4 days. I did that for a year before buying a used Toyota Rav4 EV and selling all of our gasoline cars. Now, whenever I text my wife I'm coming home, I'm going straight home (in the carpool lane) -- no more walking to the car only to realize I need to get gas during the most crowded time of the day. No more paying $40-50 per tank every 3-4 days when that same amount can fuel an electric car for the entire month.


First, welcome to the forum....



I am not sure which SUV you were looking at... but I will challenge you on it costing the same... but then again I have a Honda Pilot...

I looked at some real world info on electricity use... found one that gave info on 15K miles of driving a Tesla... a quick calculation at 12cents per KWH gives total 'fuel' cost of $761... My pilot gets about 20 mpg and has much more cargo room than a Tesla... so fuel is about $1677 @ 2.20 per gallon (both are cheaper here in Texas).... from the blog I found...

To cover 15,243 miles, I used 5,074 kWh of electricity, for an average of 333 watt-hours per mile. That's a bit better than the car's EPA-rated efficiency of 350 Wh/mi, and converts to precisely 3 miles per kWh.

So, for about 15K miles it cost $916 more in fuel... convert that to 100K miles I would be paying $6100 extra for fuel... throw in a few oil changes and some other filters and that will still be less than $10K extra total spend for service for 100,000 miles... assume tires are about the same, but that could be off...

If you were not looking at a $90K SUV option then they are not essentially the same...


I am not saying that you do not like your car or your purchase, but only that your claim seems bogus to me... BTW, I paid $35K for my Pilot so I have a long way to go to get to your total spend... mine is not as nice as yours, but pretty nice... and I can tow my boat!!!


BTW, we have taken a number of long distance trips (and will be doing another next month) that we could not do easily in a Tesla... with my DW and I we have actually driven from Daytona Beach to Houston with only stopping for gas and a quick stretch every few hours... that is about 1,000 miles...
 
91-92% Tesla owners repurchase level noted from a couple of sources vs. claimed 95%. Dear Lord, what an epic fail! This staggering level of failure is simply not allowed at a proper engineer driven forum such as ER.org

It's not the 91% versus 95% that is the issue, it was the repeated claim from tim59 that:

...
They say 95 percent of tesla owners that buy an additional car , actually buy a tesla Not asked what they would buy ...

The 91% is a "would buy" number, right? tim59 insisted it was 95% actually bought... That's what this engineer sees in this thread.

So maybe those that actually bought are a higher % than just the ones considering buying? Seems unlikely, but we will see what tim59 comes up with.

-ERD50
 
91-92% Tesla owners repurchase level noted from a couple of sources vs. claimed 95%. Dear Lord, what an epic fail! This staggering level of failure is simply not allowed at a proper engineer driven forum such as ER.org


I could be reading these things wrong, but I think the stmt was 95% bought another Tesla and not 95% claim they would buy another... the CR is saying that they 'would' buy another not that they 'did'...

It is a big difference between saying you would buy another and actually putting down the cash and doing it...



EDIT TO ADD.... missed being first by a minute!!!
 
91-92% Tesla owners repurchase level noted from a couple of sources vs. claimed 95%. Dear Lord, what an epic fail! This staggering level of failure is simply not allowed at a proper engineer driven forum such as ER.org

Not what was claimed. "Would buy" is a far cry from "did buy".


EDITED TO ADD: Missed being first AND second by a minute!
 
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Heck, you've still got a great performance car. :) Glad it worked out so well for you. If we lived on the west coast and didn't have several long, non-interstate drives a year through the great flyover zone, I'd likely be seriously investigating a Tesla. But, no car is perfect for everyone.

Welcome to the site. :flowers:

Yes. You're absolutely right. I ended up with one car with great performance and great practicality instead of a minivan for kids & groceries, a sports car that I can never drive because I can't fit the kids into, and a boring gas-efficient car for the long commutes.

And you're right that no car is perfect for everyone. The Tesla design and charging network reduces and eliminates many compromises of the electric car in our current infrastructure environment while bringing capabilities and features only possible because it's electric. This makes it practical and affordable to a large number of people (many middle-class families in the suburbs with a garage and people with long daily commutes). After the Model 3 is release later this year and next, that will expand the market to cover nearly all middle-class families with a garage with average annual mileage. It will take a further reduction in price/capabilities to make it nearly universally practical and affordable for people in dense urban environments, people who drive very low annual mileage, or people from the lower income brackets.


I'm curious about all this misinformation. It's a long thread now with lots of different views chiming in, so I might have missed something - can you be specific?

Just some I remember:

Some comment about not being able to replace all ICE with electric because there's not enough rare earth elements. Tesla just proves that's completely false because an AC induction motor doesn't use permanent magnets and so no rare earth elements. Battery also doesn't use any rare earth elements.

Comments about the Model 3 price. Yes. It is $35,000 (before any incentives) base price. Yes, that includes the Autopilot hardware (which includes all active safety features) but the software activation of Autopilot features comes at an additional feature cost.

Comments about Tesla Supercharger station not working well. No way. They are incredibly reliable. Most stations feature 8-12 stalls per station, so waiting is rare and short at all but 3-4 urban stations in California during commute hour. I know because I live near these stations but never needed to use them because I have charging at home. Yes, this is a problem that has yet to be solved -- maybe after the cars with free Supercharging are off the roads and the number of Supercharger stalls increase in the coming years.



I'm still waiting for a source on the 95% of people buy a second Tesla claim. Ken bought a RAV 4 so I guess the next 19 people must've opted for a second Tesla?

OK, here's a real life experience I'd be very interested in, from anyone who lives 2-3 hours from a service center. How is that working out? Is it timely, and is it good? I'm especially interested in anyone who has had a problem, and not just scheduled service.

I'm not defending the 95% claim, but here's my situation: I would have bought another Tesla if I had the means. I'm not rich. The most expensive car I've ever bought before the Tesla was a $21,000 Dodge. I couldn't afford another Model S at the time (not many cheap used ones). So a used Rav4 EV was the second best option for me. It still had a Tesla battery, Tesla motor, Tesla charger, Tesla ECU.

I can't offer any real life experience because I live near so many service centers, but I hang around a lot of Tesla-related forums and I read a lot of accounts of people's experiences. The impression I get if you need emergency service, Tesla will take care of you no problem. They are very, very attentive to service needs especially for unexpected problems. It's very common for them to send a tow truck with another Tesla on it. They will drop off the loaner car and take yours away for service/repair. Then swap them again after they're done.

Even for regular scheduled service, I've had them drive a loaner to my work place, swap the car, then do it again after they're done. Although for most routine work, they have Tesla Rangers who can do most work on the spot without taking the car.
 
The 90+% "would buy" is an impressive number though.


2015 Tesla Model S P85D EV | Long-Term Test Wrap-Up | Car and Driver is an interesting long term test by Car & Driver. More issues than I'd expect in a $100+K car.


I think that Teslas are more ideal for the California driver, which a good service and supercharger network, mild climate, high gas prices, longer commute times, and heavy traffic with carpool lanes than the Tesla qualifies for. Especially if it's mainly a commuter car. For the rest of us, the issues are greater.
 
Another Tesla owner here. Initially shared some of the same concerns several posters conjectured about here about electric cars and range and charging times. When I saw enough supercharging stations appear along my most frequently travelled long-distance route from northern cal to southern cal (a 1000 mile round-trip), I took the leap and bought a Model S nearly 3 years ago.

Although I enjoyed owning a corvette and a Lexus hard-top convertible, the tesla is a wonderful car. The driving experience is better than anything I've tried before. Charging is convenient for the most part. I plug in at night and unplug in the morning and never have to visit a gas station. On those longer trips to southern california, there are now 7 supercharger locations with 6 -10 chargers each along my travel route. I can skip stations without range anxiety, and I have not had to wait in queue for a charger to free up. While charging, I'll eat lunch or dinner in a restaurant. It does not feel inconvenient to me.

So I've had no regrets. There have been no mechanical or electrical issues, and there has been no maintenance costs other than replacing the tires.
 
Another Tesla owner here. Initially shared some of the same concerns several posters conjectured about here about electric cars and range and charging times. When I saw enough supercharging stations appear along my most frequently travelled long-distance route from northern cal to southern cal (a 1000 mile round-trip), I took the leap and bought a Model S nearly 3 years ago.

Although I enjoyed owning a corvette and a Lexus hard-top convertible, the tesla is a wonderful car. The driving experience is better than anything I've tried before. Charging is convenient for the most part. I plug in at night and unplug in the morning and never have to visit a gas station. On those longer trips to southern california, there are now 7 supercharger locations with 6 -10 chargers each along my travel route. I can skip stations without range anxiety, and I have not had to wait in queue for a charger to free up. While charging, I'll eat lunch or dinner in a restaurant. It does not feel inconvenient to me.

So I've had no regrets. There have been no mechanical or electrical issues, and there has been no maintenance costs other than replacing the tires.

When you stop for dinner and charge up at a supercharger - what is your experience for recharge? How many miles can you get in say an hour charge on a supercharger?
 
I am drawn to features of the tesla like electric powered and the self driving features.

Could buy one, but never bought the pony car I liked (old technology car maintenance like points, timing ) or the vet spouse wanted (per her too low and hard to get into and a ding in a parking lot would be way aggravating)

Just bought a 5yr old sedan vanilla car in great shape for a pittance. I'll hate the dings it will get too.

Might be different if I were not doing inner city driving and parking in tight spaces.
Wonder how long till a 5 yr old electric car will have neat features like driving assist?

Serious question, if you do buy a 100k+ car of any type, how much will you budget for body work annually if you actually park in public areas? Or could you bear to drive it when the first car doors yours?

I think my oldest car has been dinged 5x in last 2 years when at exercise class.. only really visible if you know they are there...
 
When you stop for dinner and charge up at a supercharger - what is your experience for recharge? How many miles can you get in say an hour charge on a supercharger?

The charging speed seems to vary according to how many other cars are plugged in. When there are only 1 or 2 others (a common scene currently), I usually get 130 miles range in 20 minutes. After 50 minutes, I usually get a notification on my cellphone that my car is charged up (it has 265 mile battery capacity). I usually am not charging from a nearly empty battery, however, so my charge times are usually 15-20 minutes, then I'm off.

But when the superchargers are nearly full, like Christmas or Thanksgiving travel, there is a noticeable slowdown in the charging rate by as much as 50% slower. Then, 10 minutes later, people drive off and the rate seems to pick up again.
 
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