Coming up with THE NUMBER

This is an interesting thread that it's not investment related. Kind of counseling about frivolous spending and marriage:D. I'll have to read it all.
But I noticed one note of Lisa about her DH's spending ... he spends little but frequently, it's not like buying big toys...Something like that. I didn't read other comments (as I said I'll have to read it all later), but I'd like to chime in on this. Those little things can add up fast and you should budget for that in case he continues doing that in the ER or R. What if he gets bored in his ER and decides to play virtual life (like FarmVille or CityVille and other crazy cr*p) in addition to shopping on Amazon. Just for an exercise, let him (or you do for him) start a spreadsheet and start adding each little toy for one year...just to see what it adds up. Maybe it'll be small enough and you worry too much about:dance: or maybe not:mad:


The one thing that I have noticed is that someone who spends a lot of money on either a bunch of small items or a few big items are NOT interested in keeping track of their spending....

And if the spouse is doing it and telling them, it usually does not fix the problem...
 
The one thing that I have noticed is that someone who spends a lot of money on either a bunch of small items or a few big items are NOT interested in keeping track of their spending....

And if the spouse is doing it and telling them, it usually does not fix the problem...

What an interesting observation. I pay the bills, manage the investments, am doing the retirement planning, basically everything financial because he's never shown an interest in it (+ he travels 100% for work and is worn out from weekly trips from Vegas to DC). I work from home and have an interest so have no issue with doing it.

However, with this setup he has no investment in our financial lives.

I'm going to talk to him this weekend about him possibly picking up monitoring of our budget. It takes very little time since it is set up in Quicken and the downloads are automated as well. It would definitely help him see where the money goes.
 
Just for an exercise, let him (or you do for him) start a spreadsheet and start adding each little toy for one year...just to see what it adds up. Maybe it'll be small enough and you worry too much about:dance: or maybe not:mad:

I have all of our financials in Quicken, so know by month what was spent by vendor...and Amazon is quite the standout.

He despises Farmville et al, but I defintely get your point.
 
I'm going to talk to him this weekend about him possibly picking up monitoring of our budget. It takes very little time since it is set up in Quicken and the downloads are automated as well. It would definitely help him see where the money goes.
Good luck with that. My DW is oblivious to our finances. I tell her what our monthly credit card bill is and if there were any significant above budget items. Once a year, I force her to sit down with me while I review the prior years spending, calculate our asset allocation and do the rebalancing. If I counted on her to do anything herself, it would not get done. She knows I'll do it. At least neither of us have any spending fetishes.
 
What an interesting observation. I pay the bills, manage the investments, am doing the retirement planning, basically everything financial because he's never shown an interest in it (+ he travels 100% for work and is worn out from weekly trips from Vegas to DC). I work from home and have an interest so have no issue with doing it.

However, with this setup he has no investment in our financial lives.

I'm going to talk to him this weekend about him possibly picking up monitoring of our budget. It takes very little time since it is set up in Quicken and the downloads are automated as well. It would definitely help him see where the money goes.

Good luck with that. My DW is oblivious to our finances. I tell her what our monthly credit card bill is and if there were any significant above budget items. Once a year, I force her to sit down with me while I review the prior years spending, calculate our asset allocation and do the rebalancing. If I counted on her to do anything herself, it would not get done. She knows I'll do it. At least neither of us have any spending fetishes.

I have to agree with 2B... if he is not interested, trying to force him to be interested IMO is like trying to force a cat to have a bath.... even if you succeed, you will not have a happy cat...

BTW, my DW is like 2B... she does not want to hear anything bad nor does she want to know any kind of details... even with me saying 'what are you going to do if I die?'... she responds 'don't die'.... :facepalm:

Now, since she has acquired a teacher certificate and hopefully will be bringing in income, our situation will become much better.... (not that it was bad, just not what I had budgeted).
 
I'm going to talk to him this weekend about him possibly picking up monitoring of our budget. It takes very little time since it is set up in Quicken and the downloads are automated as well. It would definitely help him see where the money goes.
That's how we manage. I handle all the investments and I built a spreadsheet that DW maintains monthly. She reconciles the bank statement (I don't know why) when she updates the budget spreadsheet. She carries the checkbook, though we rarely use it anymore. Only difference, thankfully my DW has always been good about not overspending even before we had a budget. If anything, she asks my "permission" far too often, and it's not like I've ever denied her much of anything.
 
I'm going to talk to him this weekend about him possibly picking up monitoring of our budget. It takes very little time since it is set up in Quicken and the downloads are automated as well. It would definitely help him see where the money goes.

Good luck with that. I mean that seriously but based upon my experience with my DH I wouldn't be, um, holding my breath on it.

I am the detail person on the finances in our family (as you could probably figure out since I'm the one who posts here).

It isn't that DH isn't interested in finances exactly. It is more that he knows that I will do it and he thinks I know more about it so he doesn't have to get involved in it in a detailed way.

Some years ago, DH and I were having a discussion about who does most around the house, etc. He did a lot of the visible stuff -- running errands, fixing things, etc. Most of the stuff that I did was sitting at the computer and didn't look all that onerous.

So we switched around some jobs and he took on the budget and financial recording. We were using Microsoft Money at the time (or maybe Quicken...don't recall exactly which when). Well within a few months we started making late payments on bills (not seriously late, but still) because he would forget something.

I was also constantly...concerned...that DH didn't record budget stuff the "right" way. He would categorize stuff to Category A when we had a specific Category B that was more applicable. Or it would be a split transaction and rather than figure the split he would just categorize it to one category.

Anyway, after a few months he asked me to take back the money handling. We do talk about major things. We go over the budget each year and periodically if I want to change anything significant. I tell him if I rebalance anything significantly or make significant changes.

But basically he doesn't want to do these things any more than I want to take the car to get it serviced or want to mow the yard.
 
So much to think about.

He's not allergic to financials, because funny enough, he has his MBA and his job entails running business case scenarios as part of his consulting work.

He's far more qualified on paper to be doing what I do, he just has no interest.

And the cat taking a bath is probably spot on, but when we talked he sincerely understood my concern so maybe he'll be open to the suggestion of his managing the budget...or maybe we can do it together somehow.
 
So we switched around some jobs and he took on the budget and financial recording. We were using Microsoft Money at the time (or maybe Quicken...don't recall exactly which when). Well within a few months we started making late payments on bills (not seriously late, but still) because he would forget something.
This is a major problem with trying to get uninterested and perhaps irresponsible people involved in things that you really do not want to have screwed up.

Ha
 
Lisa, sometimes it seems to me that getting in synch with a spouse about financial matters is just incredibly hard! So often one is the spender, and the other the bill payer and saver, or some such thing. I am sure you will get this figured out in a way that will work for both you and your DH.

Still, reading what you are saying on this thread makes me glad that it's you and not me. :) It's not a trivial or easy thing for couples to work through.
 
I think we should all keep in mind that most people think money is to spend. With our LBYM mentality and nose to the grindstone drive towards FIRE with attendant spreadsheets and retirement calculators and constant discussions of investment asset allocation, taxes, SS start dates and managed wealth decumulation we are the oddballs. The OPs DH sounds like a pretty squared away normal person to me. I hate seeing some people here categorize him as an irresponsible spendthrift. From what the OP has posted I suspect he works very hard and makes a good living. Cut him some slack and let him buy some toys.
 
I shared this thread with him yesterday and he now understands what the big deal is. Until he gets his shopping addiction under control I'm not comfortable retiring.
Does he enjoy sleeping with one eye open, or does he have a death wish?!?

Spouse is having the opposite problem. She's shopping for window blinds, and she's found the blinds of her dreams, but she hasn't bought them yet. She's going to wait until they go on sale, and then she's going to get them for 10-20% off.

If we add up the time she's invested in the shopping, plus the driving and the return trip, then the savings work out to about minimum wage.

But she did make me throw out a pair of $2.99 Goodwill shorts today.
 
From what the OP has posted I suspect he works very hard and makes a good living. Cut him some slack and let him buy some toys.

You're exactly right. He is a wonderful person and loves many aspects of his job. And he's most happy when his job gets to help people (he works in the public sector and spent about six months in China helping put their infrastructure back together after the earthquake).

This spending thing is really small in the grand scheme of things and it's something we're going to work on together. For me, I have to lighten up, and for him, he has to use his allowance for his spending....easy, peasy...but of course it's easy peasy now that we know what the issue is.
 
But she did make me throw out a pair of $2.99 Goodwill shorts today.

Nords, you sound like my younger brother. He has saved just about every penny he's ever earned and left the work force at about 40 (he got layed off, had plenty of money and never looked back).

He is an avid road cyclist and has had the same gloves for almost 15 years. I can't tell you how many times he's repaired them with duck tape, yet he'll drop $5k on a new frame no problem...it's all in the priorities.
 
He is an avid road cyclist and has had the same gloves for almost 15 years. I can't tell you how many times he's repaired them with duck tape, yet he'll drop $5k on a new frame no problem...it's all in the priorities.
I completely understand-- after 15 years he probably feels that he's finally gotten them broken in just right...
 
Sounds like OP is on the right track. Here is what works for us: We each have our own Amazon credit cards for personal purchases, since we both buy a lot of stuff on Amazon. The Prime fee is paid from household expenses.

I use Accountedge software, both for business and personal bookkeeping. I'm not sure how Quicken works, but in Accountedge I just allocate/budget $200 per month for each Fun Fund, which rises to $500 for the month that is your birthday, as well as for December to cover gifts.(Accountedge allows for different amounts each month.)

As the months roll by, the budget builds up. When someone buys something (check or credit card) that is personal, it logged to the "Fun Fund" expense, just like Groceries or Auto etc. At the end of the year, if the Fun Fund is underbudget, we roll over the balance to the next year by adding it to the January budget. If over budget, then January starts off negative.

So if I ran the budget from Jan - May (5 months), the budget would be $1000 each ($200 x 5). The program will say:

Fun Fund A - Actual $900 - Budgeted $1000 = -$100
Fun Fund B - Actual $1200 - Budgeted $1000 = +$200

We really don't pay too much attention to it, and somehow it never gets too out of whack. My DH tends to buy more clothes and shoes than I do, so he's usually over spending, but I just tell him that and he stops for a month to catch up. I might find that I'm way underbudget and will buy a nice piece of art, or something special.

In 23 years, this system has worked really well. $200 isn't much if you need to buy tech stuff though. If we want to buy something like a $3K camera, iPhone, iPad, etc., I purchase it from the business account, we make sure to use it in our work and then write it off. Anything we buy for the business is 43% - 47% discounted, due to self-employment, Federal and State taxes. Sometimes a big purchase at the end of the year will drop us from 28% to 25% tax bracket, or keep us inside the Roth limits, so I run those numbers carefully.

We manage to share the financial stuff together although we specialize in different aspects of it. We decide on our asset allocation yearly. I do the cash flow and decide how much we can save this month, he keeps track of what to buy in our brokerage accounts each month depending on what we need. I do the book keeping for business and personal since it's the same application (although he knows his way around Accountedge a bit), and then also work out our estimated taxes. He does all the personal filing (I hate filing) and works more with the CPA. I've taken more interest in figuring out the sequence of withdrawals and taxable savings, as well as when and how to claim SS.

I used to not be interested in the investing side, leaving it to DH, but I found that he was more comfortable with more risk than me, as well as more active management. I think after last summer's drop he understands now that we need to balance our portfolio with more conservative holdings that can ride out a bad storm, and not be so enamored of managers. We're getting there, but it's a process.

So as you can see, you can divide up the tasks quite finely. Maybe he would like to work on the safe withdrawal rate, researching buckets, researching what tax bracket you'll be in and which pot to draw from. If he doesn't know spreadsheets, he could take an online course. The busier he is the less time he'll have to shop!
 
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If we want to buy something like a $3K camera, iPhone, iPad, etc., I purchase it from the business account, we make sure to use it in our work and then write it off. Anything we buy for the business is 43% - 47% discounted, due to self-employment, Federal and State taxes. Sometimes a big purchase at the end of the year will drop us from 28% to 25% tax bracket, or keep us inside the Roth limits, so I run those numbers carefully.
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Is this legal? Or are you just "working the system" to your advantage, to get your "stuff" at a discount?
 
Is this legal? Or are you just "working the system" to your advantage, to get your "stuff" at a discount?
Absolutely, I've known people that run their whole lives around "business expenses." The key is "business use" to be able to take the deduction. You can not only subsidize your purchases of tangible objects but you can make sales calls in Paris if you can show a credible potential client if audited. In traveling reasonable meals and transportation are covered but don't try to get the tax deduction for the Orsay tickets unless you take your client there for entertainment.
 
Is this legal? Or are you just "working the system" to your advantage, to get your "stuff" at a discount?

Absolutely, I've known people that run their whole lives around "business expenses." The key is "business use" to be able to take the deduction. You can not only subsidize your purchases of tangible objects but you can make sales calls in Paris if you can show a credible potential client if audited. In traveling reasonable meals and transportation are covered but don't try to get the tax deduction for the Orsay tickets unless you take your client there for entertainment.


Not quite legal as the other poster posted... IOW, you are only supposed to take a % of the expense that is used for business...

Say you buy the IPad as mentioned... if you use it 20% for business, and 80% for personal use... you are only supposed to expense or depreciate that 20% business use... the other 80% that most people write off as business expense is the 'not legal' part...

Now, what 2B says can be done to an extent... but I would bet that if audited you would need to be in a business that actually had overseas customers... IOW, if you own a carpet cleaning business in Topeka, it is kinda hard to say you are looking for carpets to clean in Paris... but, if you do have clients in other countries, it is not out of line that you might be able to get one in Paris...


But most people really abuse the rules for business use... especially with car expenses...
 
Absolutely, I've known people that run their whole lives around "business expenses." The key is "business use" to be able to take the deduction. You can not only subsidize your purchases of tangible objects but you can make sales calls in Paris if you can show a credible potential client if audited. In traveling reasonable meals and transportation are covered but don't try to get the tax deduction for the Orsay tickets unless you take your client there for entertainment.
Knowing people who "run their whole lives around business expenses" doesn't make it "absolutely" legal. It's not legal to deduct personal expenses beyond the legitimate % of business use as Texas Proud noted, even though it's done every day. The problem is it's nearly impossible for the IRS to follow up on every deduction, so it's widely abused. Unless your total deductions are way out of line for your business/industry, the odds of being audited and caught are probably slim...

Another reason our tax code needs to be simplified, fewer deductions and lower rates...
 
Is this legal? Or are you just "working the system" to your advantage, to get your "stuff" at a discount?

Chill. Our business is tech consulting, web design, book authoring and ebooks, plus we make money from writing for a professional video and a photography website. The IRS would have a really hard time denying that camera equipment and iPads were not a business expense. Not to mention that our business expenses are still very low in relation to the amount of income we have.
 
Knowing people who "run their whole lives around business expenses" doesn't make it "absolutely" legal. It's not legal to deduct personal expenses beyond the legitimate % of business use as Texas Proud noted, even though it's done every day. The problem is it's nearly impossible for the IRS to follow up on every deduction, so it's widely abused. Unless your total deductions are way out of line for your business/industry, the odds of being audited and caught are probably slim...

Another reason our tax code needs to be simplified, fewer deductions and lower rates...
I hesitate to alert the moderators to your blatant political remark. :greetings10:

I never said it was "absolutely legal." I agree the tax code can be easily manipulated to deduct what normal wage slaves could only buy as personal expenses. It's available, whether fully "legal" or not, so people use it.
 
I hesitate to alert the moderators to your blatant political remark. :greetings10:
I couldn't care less what you do, knock yourself out...:greetings10:

I never said it was "absolutely legal." I agree the tax code can be easily manipulated to deduct what normal wage slaves could only buy as personal expenses. It's available, whether fully "legal" or not, so people use it.
Then at least 4 of us misunderstood your reply, must be our mistake...
 
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I hesitate to alert the moderators to your blatant political remark. :greetings10:

I never said it was "absolutely legal." I agree the tax code can be easily manipulated to deduct what normal wage slaves could only buy as personal expenses. It's available, whether fully "legal" or not, so people use it.


The question was "Is this legal?" Your answer was "Absolutely".... I do not see how you can not say that you did not say it was absolutely legal....
 

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