Right to farm law-dealing with idiot city worker

[Chuckanut]

There’s a reason for rules limiting things like pets and farm animals. Having grown up in a part of the city of Los Angeles, where horses, cows, chickens, rabbits, etc. could be raised, I know what can happen.

One problem is rodents and flies who thrive on what the animals leave around. The other problem is disease that is spread by all the flies and rodents. It’s a simple health issue. Even in the area I grew up which had a zoning of one acre per house, it was a problem from time to time. I remember the horse owner who piled up the manure very close to a neighbor's house (but far from his own structure). Another neighbor had numerous rat nests on her property all located in where her chickens and rabbits were located.

Have you considered something less obnoxious though perhaps more environmentally useful such as bee keeping? The last I read they are still under pressure for reasons not completely known to the experts. It can even be profitable when farmers need the little guys to pollinate their crops. Just make sure you follow the local laws and rules. I imagine they vary quite a bit.

 

[finnski1]

That stipulation is put in place to avoid sprawling suburbs growing into rural areas and creating problems for existing farms. It doesn't protect you from coming into an existing neighborhood and treating it as a farm.

Yeah, the OP comes on here, describes the situation and then asks if it is wrong. They then get many replies with almost all telling them, yes it is wrong. The OP then proceeds to argue anyone who challenges them. Have seen many post from this person with a similar MO. Not worth arguing with IMHO.

 

[ERD50]

Yeah, the OP comes on here, describes the situation and then asks if it is wrong. They then get many replies with almost all telling them, yes it is wrong. The OP then proceeds to argue anyone who challenges them. Have seen many post from this person with a similar MO. Not worth arguing with IMHO.

Yep, I started a reply, but then reconsidered - what's the point? OP obviously can do no wrong, even after admitting to doing wrong (no permit, because other people don't have one?), 'practicing farming', in a residential area?) - the list goes on.

What is that Southern expression? "Well, bless your heart!"?

-ERD50

 

[pb4uski]

I am talking about the earlier post just after my sister death. I had about 2mil at that time, so ppl said get rid of all property would be ok since 2 mil is high. And again I assess and judge and decide. I thought housing price will go up due to low inventory and disasters around my state.

now I have 4 mil, but still enjoying digging soils.

I think if you go back to that thread a number of people suggested that you sell not because the rentals were a bad investment but more because some of the things that you wrote suggested that being a landlord would be stressful for you and given what you had it was unnecessary.

 

[pb4uski]

Yeah, the OP comes on here, describes the situation and then asks if it is wrong. They then get many replies with almost all telling them, yes it is wrong. The OP then proceeds to argue anyone who challenges them. Have seen many post from this person with a similar MO. Not worth arguing with IMHO.

Yep, I started a reply, but then reconsidered - what's the point? OP obviously can do no wrong, even after admitting to doing wrong (no permit, because other people don't have one?), 'practicing farming', in a residential area?) - the list goes on.

What is that Southern expression? "Well, bless your heart!"?

-ERD50

Yup. The OP asked:

Am I wrong?

And many have posted in one way or the other saying some version of yes and that the OP is pushing a rope trying to fight city hall.

Well, bless your heart!

 

[old medic]

now I have 4 mil, but still enjoying digging soils.

I would already been moved.. You mentioned before about being self sufficient, The noisy ones go in the pot, We always told our chickens, Omelets our soup, the choice is yours. Chicken manure make great fertilizer.

 

[euro]

OP seems financially well off. He should just go ahead with his "live in the country" dream and buy some acreage out of town. Then he can raise as many chickens as he wants and doesn't need to fight his neighbors, the "city idiots" , etc

 

[pacergal]

When I was younger, my brother brought home chickens, ducks, and a goose from a friend! We kept them in a pen in the back yard. Stinky, and attracted predators.
And several neighbors have chickens now.
All were possible, as long as none of them were roosters. That is a big No here, due to noise ordinance.

OP-- I understand your desire to" practice" self sustaining farming and raising farm animals. However, you are doing it in a neighborhood, not on an established farm/agriculture land.

I don't think you will win this in court. So, you have two choices:
get rid of the chickens and roosters
or
sell current house and buy some true farmland acreage, where you can grow your own food, raise whatever farm animals you wish.

 

[pb4uski]

Interesting that there has yet to be a poster telling the OP that they think the OP will have a good chance of winning in court. Just sayin'.

 

[Exchme]

I am glad OP's health is improving

But in regards to the chickens, OP is outrageous. I would be really upset to have such a neighbor. Aside from the fact that no one wants neighbor's animals in their yard, or to be awakened by roosters crowing or other noises and smells that come from raising livestock, roosters can be very aggressive and seriously injure pets, children or even adults! It's extremely bad judgment to have such a creature in a residential area.

Roosters grow "spurs" (curved spikes) on the back of their legs that they use in addition to their claws. They will jump up and claw at eyes and will wrap around your lower leg or feet, pecking and digging in the claws and spurs. Not nice creatures and not at all neighborly to expose others to this risk.

The solution is simple, if OP wants to farm, move to a farm.

 

[Ian S]

Very interesting thread. Makes me appreciate our neighbors all the more!

 

[MichaelB]

This is an interesting thread! OP did ask for opinions.

I know that here in South Florida agricultural land gets a very nice property tax break, so the counties require landowners have legitimate claims (Bona Fides). They want grazing animals and such. 4 chickens and a rooster wouldn’t satisfy the requirement.

Land classification and use tend to be determined by local authorities and regulations, and I don’t see the USDA (or Wikipedia) playing a role. However, I’m not a lawyer. The same applies to having a rooster in the back yard. It’s a local matter, and roosters can be a nuisance, so neighbors complaining and local city hall and police getting involved is not unusual, especially if this is an urban, suburban or populated area.

If this matter were to go to court it might prove difficult for the OP. As a matter of principle it might be worth fighting, if the OP has the time and finances. Of course, it will probably alienate the neighbors.

The suggestion to buy a farm makes sense. Or move to a more rural setting.

 

[REWahoo]

The suggestion to buy a farm makes sense.

I'd like to point out, especially for those for whom English may be a second language, that there is a distinct difference in the meaning of the phrase "buy a farm" vs "buy the farm".

 

[Calico]

I have (thankfully) never had to appear in court for any reason to defend myself, but even with that lack of experience, common sense tells me that:

1. going in angry with a (self-admitted) hard-headed attitude;

2. describing all the officers and officials as idiots and stupid and wrong (when they were just doing their jobs);

3. willfully ignoring any rules and regulations you don't like because you are special and the rules just don't apply to you; and

4. a history of hostility towards neighbors

is not the way to win the case.

The property is described as 7500 square feet. Now, I am mathematically challenged, but my friend Google tells me that this equates to 0.17 acres.

If I had a residential neighbor who lived on that size plot, who had a "mountain" of wood chips in their front yard, and an entire yard consisting of wood chips, and "two large greenhouses," and vegetation growing right up to the fence line, and farmyard animals that are loud, smelly, and attractive to predators, I would be on the phone to the city too. The OP's neighbors did not sign up to live next to a "farm" - not even a "practice" one.

I agree with another poster - most people try to avoid confrontation, and the neighbors who are telling the OP that they "love" the chickens and have no complaints are lying. Why would they be willing to risk telling this hard-headed, hostile neighbor the truth to her face? I wouldn't, and I am one of the most straightforward people I know - in this case it wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

[Walt34]

I have to agree with the others, good luck winning this case. I think your odds are on a par with a snowball's chance in Hades. And I'm real happy that I don't live next door to the OP.

 

[RunningBum]

It could be worse - plenty of horror stories once an HOA is established.

This sounds like the kind of horror story that would make me want to live in an HOA neighborhood so I wouldn't have to live next door to a yard like the OP's.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Fascinating discussion!

...
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=262.805&bid=14197&hl=agricultural+land%u2044

...

Did you read this Missouri state material that you posted? Note it was written for people who might buy property near bona fide existing farms so they understand what they are getting into, not for people who want to turn non-farmland into farmland. One link within it says:

For purposes of the farmland protection act, "farming purposes" shall be defined as at least three-fourths of the property used for farming"

My lot is about the same size as your 7500 sf lot and my house, driveway, sidewalk, deck, etc. take up more than one-fourth of the property, so you may not even meet that minimum of using three-fourths of it.

But also in your link:

Agricultural zoned land or land used for farming purposes may be used for commercial or hobby operations that may include but not limited to the following: breeding and rearing of livestock, weaning and treating of livestock, raising and harvesting of crops, application of fertilizers and pesticides, dust, noise, odors, gunfire, burning, extended hours of operation, seasonal operations, timber operations, cultivated and idle land.... These activities and conditions may already be regulated by state, federal or local law and nothing herein is meant to exempt such property from any such laws or regulations

So according to the bolded sentence, apparently local law can indeed regulate the use of allowable activities and conditions on your land regardless of your interpretation of farmland.

 

[MC Rider]

Breaking rocks in the hot sun.
I fought the law, and the law won.

 

[retire to nature]

I would already been moved.. You mentioned before about being self sufficient, The noisy ones go in the pot, We always told our chickens, Omelets our soup, the choice is yours. Chicken manure make great fertilizer.

Yes I know the farming is recycling system. Thats why I want chicken for manure part too.

 

[retire to nature]

OP seems financially well off. He should just go ahead with his "live in the country" dream and buy some acreage out of town. Then he can raise as many chickens as he wants and doesn't need to fight his neighbors, the "city idiots" , etc

Well he is she actually.
And she wont have any man in her life. So I want it practice first here.

 

[retire to nature]

There’s a reason for rules limiting things like pets and farm animals. Having grown up in a part of the city of Los Angeles, where horses, cows, chickens, rabbits, etc. could be raised, I know what can happen.

One problem is rodents and flies who thrive on what the animals leave around. The other problem is disease that is spread by all the flies and rodents. It’s a simple health issue. Even in the area I grew up which had a zoning of one acre per house, it was a problem from time to time. I remember the horse owner who piled up the manure very close to a neighbor's house (but far from his own structure). Another neighbor had numerous rat nests on her property all located in where her chickens and rabbits were located.

Have you considered something less obnoxious though perhaps more environmentally useful such as bee keeping? The last I read they are still under pressure for reasons not completely known to the experts. It can even be profitable when farmers need the little guys to pollinate their crops. Just make sure you follow the local laws and rules. I imagine they vary quite a bit.

I started beekeeping this year too. But without much knowledge I lost my colony. I will start the next spring too.

I am so surprising people are saying just buy a small farm.

I am practicing here because it needs knowledge. It doesnt mean because I am a multimillionaire it will solve everything.

Thats why I want to practice first and enjoyed alot of learning beekeeping and raising chickens. I prefer watching youtube for those rather than just netflix movies.

And actually I had to treat my chickens for antibiotics the last week by myself. There is no much vet for chickens. farming animals are pretty much under owner's care. That's why I want the practice But surprisingly, people think it is wrong to practice.

 

[retire to nature]

You sound like you have your mind made up. Good luck to you. It's an interesting situation. Let us know how it turns out.

It is possible to get rid of chickens. My rooster, who was abusing the hens, went to the freezer after processing. My neighbor has a rooster that is mildly annoying but no more so than the other neighbor's barking dogs, so I let it slide.

Someday I will learn to process too. for right now, they are my first flock and attached too much.

 

[retire to nature]

Yeah, the OP comes on here, describes the situation and then asks if it is wrong. They then get many replies with almost all telling them, yes it is wrong. The OP then proceeds to argue anyone who challenges them. Have seen many post from this person with a similar MO. Not worth arguing with IMHO.

you are correct. But I even posted about my dog insurance stuff and I won the case too.

In US culture, what expert says is always right. But it is not true. And because the majority says right, still doesnt mean right.

I was at signing for title company today. The expert asked me if the house was my primary resident in the last 2 year. It was my residential in 2016 but it passes 5 years. the next house I plan to sell was that I lived from 2019 to 2021. so it should be the 2 out of 5 law would work.

I asked her back it is two years out of 5 years. She said no just last two years. I didnt want to argue for no reason, so let it go. and I googled it now, I am right.

 

[retire to nature]

When I was younger, my brother brought home chickens, ducks, and a goose from a friend! We kept them in a pen in the back yard. Stinky, and attracted predators.
And several neighbors have chickens now.
All were possible, as long as none of them were roosters. That is a big No here, due to noise ordinance.

OP-- I understand your desire to" practice" self sustaining farming and raising farm animals. However, you are doing it in a neighborhood, not on an established farm/agriculture land.

I don't think you will win this in court. So, you have two choices:
get rid of the chickens and roosters
or
sell current house and buy some true farmland acreage, where you can grow your own food, raise whatever farm animals you wish.

My gardening is more than 10 yrs and ended up woodchip gardening. so with woodchip and chicken poop compost together, control odor.

there is "back to eden" farming. I didnt know that until this year. The woodchip way was my own idea.

Since I have healthcare background too, the fertilizer is nitrogen which can cause cancer.

Woodchip actually make the plant not to grow fast. Then slow growing take alot of space. thats why I wanted to convert all lot to raising space.

also, I think lawn culture is ridiculous. We read how many household dont have emergency fund or hace less than $400. But cutting the lawn is wasting time and cost IMO.

And IMO, I will win.

 

[retire to nature]

I am glad OP's health is improving

But in regards to the chickens, OP is outrageous. I would be really upset to have such a neighbor. Aside from the fact that no one wants neighbor's animals in their yard, or to be awakened by roosters crowing or other noises and smells that come from raising livestock, roosters can be very aggressive and seriously injure pets, children or even adults! It's extremely bad judgment to have such a creature in a residential area.

Roosters grow "spurs" (curved spikes) on the back of their legs that they use in addition to their claws. They will jump up and claw at eyes and will wrap around your lower leg or feet, pecking and digging in the claws and spurs. Not nice creatures and not at all neighborly to expose others to this risk.

The solution is simple, if OP wants to farm, move to a farm.

Well, mine behave so well. everybody surprise how they act. Even my dog, my vet is asking how can he be so calm all the time. I dedicate my time to care my animals. like I said, I got them from chicks, and interacted well with
pretty much 24/7. and they sleep in my basement, so they dont wake up my neighbors. I like the interaction part the most. It is my own personality in my love the nature brain. I can just watch the microbes in the soil for hours etc.