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Old 08-19-2017, 11:40 AM   #81
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Here are some of my thoughts on the lake house. I view it as kind of a pent-up savings account that you cannot make withdraws on until it is sold. Around here, the houses on the lake are gaining value faster than the ones off the lake.

I feel like the gain in value is offsetting the tax cost and I am gaining in the end, probably a better gain than in a smaller house. It will just take some time to get the money, and I will continue to feed it (taxes) and lose the value of the $$ freed up with the downsizing sale.

In the end, it may end up being close to being a wash either way.

I do agree that it would be less mentally taxing to do the downsizing thing now.
These things might be true and they might not be true. Don't feel you have to justify where you want to live. But even though you are feeling pressured and a little low, remember you are not the house you live in and if you need to move you will still be fine...a metro area lake house is very pricey, if you downsize, maybe when you are retired and the money looks good you can move a little farther up North for that lake home.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #82
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Forgive my bluntness, but I found this to be an incredibly ignorant comment. People who are truly depressed don't choose this state and can't just "snap out of it." It is a medical condition that sometimes goes away on its own but sometimes doesn't. If one is depressed, one doesn't wake up one day and decide not to be. It is not "that easy."
Thank you for speaking the truth. Having lost multiple family members to this disease it's not easy to speak up.

Trust me every person I knew that took their life due to depression all tried the "just snap out of it" treatment.
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:25 PM   #83
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Thank you for speaking the truth. Having lost multiple family members to this disease it's not easy to speak up.

Trust me every person I knew that took their life due to depression all tried the "just snap out of it" treatment.
+ It is a true condition and I have learned to listed when someone says "I am depressed."
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:53 PM   #84
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I agree with much of the advice you have been given. Take care of yourself, you are most likely just fine financially. One thing I have not seen addressed is this.
You are saying you have a 401K, not an IRA. Have you checked to see if your plan allows for penalty free withdrawals (hardship withdrawals) for employees who leave after age 55? This would help you greatly before age 59.5.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:00 PM   #85
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Only thing that I haven't seen mentioned thus far: If doing handyman work is of interest to you, just post an ad for your services on craigslist. Obviously make it as professional as possible. Folks in my area are desperate for this kind of service, but things are really growing here at a fast pace.

That will give you a gauge as to how much work is out there for you, and you get to decide what jobs you want to take on. Even if you do that part time, you'll still have time for your job search if you so choose.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:12 PM   #86
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Depression, sad or broken hearted? Losing a job is a major life changer similar to the death of a loved one or divorce. Clinical depression has to be diagnosed. I guess it's how you look at your situation, an opportunity or a loss. This may be the best thing that's happened for you. It's your attitude that counts, unless it truly is clinical depression. That's a whole different ball of wax. Wealthy people with great families and friends can be depressed. And poor people with no future prospects can be truly happy.

I used to work with hispanic immigrants who picked fruit in the fields for 8-10 hours/day in Michigan. They had children and spouses who lived in trailers with no running water. There was a central water/shower/bathroom for 10-12 trailers of families to use. These were happy, grateful people who showed so much love for each other. The children played and laughter filled the immigrant park. The parents were polite and kind to us, always.

Depression isn't always because of loss, can be chemical and can be treated. Wish only the best for you and your family. Go deeper and figure out if this is depression.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:14 PM   #87
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The first time I got laid off I was worried and depressed. Was my first job out of school, I was was 28 and just bought a townhouse. My girlfriend told me not to worry that I was good and would find a job easy.

And I did 2 months later.

The second time I got laid off I was still a little nervous but I knew what to do and I got a job in 2 months.

The third time I got laid off I was thrilled. Lets have some cocktails and celebrate! I'm on unemployment and have a 2 month vacation -
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:45 PM   #88
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Now that you have at least 40 hours a week of free time , read the book "What Color is Your Parachute?". It is an easy read that won't take very long to make a lot of progress.
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:07 PM   #89
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Money wise you are in good shape. At some point you might have to sell the house but not right away. Not maybe for years or not ever. Just keep in mind you do have about half your dough in you house. There are parts of the country you can live very well on the money you do have. Always keep that in mind. It is not the end of the road. Watch the fun this guy has for very little money. Here are is videos https://www.youtube.com/user/gabejedmo
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #90
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Another thought on the handyman idea is calling local real estate agents. Few homes going on the market are in "move-in condition" and need at least a few minor maintenance/repair items taken care of. Real estate agents always have a list of handymen for those things but of course they come and go from the market. So call a dozen or so and let them know you are available. It might be slow going until you build up a reputation and client base but there will always be a need for those guys.

I second the recommendation on "What Color is Your Parachute?" I first read that book in 1983 and in 1993-94 I took a page right out of it and convinced my employer to create the job I wanted. And since I knew it was coming, surprise, surprise, I was the most qualified person out of some 900 people because I had prepared myself. Of course that assumes that one already has a job but there are gobs of good ideas in that book about differentiating yourself from all the other job applicants out there. BTW, the book is updated every year so the copy you may pick up will not be obsolete.
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:06 PM   #91
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My former employer offered nothing. I have a high deductible cobra plan. The first 14k is on me so I don't want to spend $$ on a doctor.
Sorry to be blunt, but this statement reminds me of the time my daughter pulled up in a car with a spare tire on it (the small doughnut). When I told her to get it fixed, she said she didn't have time. She likely did not have the money either. Problem is, if you don't take care of it, how much time and money is it going to cost you? Same for your situation. If you don't get your depression under control, how much do you think that's going to cost? Real simple example is going into an interview (yes, I am assuming you will get one at some point) without being fully on your game, could cost you a lot.

I've always believed, and it was true for me, that the main reason people don't seek help is the embarrassment associated with depression/mental health. Now I look at it a different way. Professionals are life coaches. Sure, you could have a medical condition, but my belief is that you just need a coach to help you navigate the situation you found yourself so abruptly thrown into. What you're going through is very common. Talk to someone who can help.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:10 PM   #92
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Depression, sad or broken hearted? Losing a job is a major life changer similar to the death of a loved one or divorce. Clinical depression has to be diagnosed. I guess it's how you look at your situation, an opportunity or a loss. This may be the best thing that's happened for you. It's your attitude that counts, unless it truly is clinical depression. That's a whole different ball of wax. Wealthy people with great families and friends can be depressed. And poor people with no future prospects can be truly happy.

I used to work with hispanic immigrants who picked fruit in the fields for 8-10 hours/day in Michigan. They had children and spouses who lived in trailers with no running water. There was a central water/shower/bathroom for 10-12 trailers of families to use. These were happy, grateful people who showed so much love for each other. The children played and laughter filled the immigrant park. The parents were polite and kind to us, always.

Depression isn't always because of loss, can be chemical and can be treated. Wish only the best for you and your family. Go deeper and figure out if this is depression.
Good explanation
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:21 PM   #93
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You are in a much better position to weather a short period (or even a relatively long period) of unemployment than many people. At least you have a stash of cash which will carry you for a while.
My recommendation is to see your family doctor about your depression. You sound to me like you would benefit from a short course of anti-depressive medication. These medicines are effective and fairly affordable. Check out Cymbalta on www.goodrx.com ($16.25 at Safeway;$19.75 at Costco).
Clinical depression causes terrible stress on the family, creates a personal inertia that is difficult to overcome, and clouds your judgement.
Secondly, I would talk to all your engineering friends and see if they are aware of potential job openings at other companies. Many jobs are not widely advertised, and someone may get you hooked up with employment. You will have better luck if you are upbeat, energetic, positive etc when you begin this process.
Best of Luck!!
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Depressed.....What to do?
Old 08-19-2017, 05:10 PM   #94
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Depressed.....What to do?

Sorry about the situation. I find having an action plan helps put negative emotions at bay.
Perhaps:
1. Run the numbers and figure out how close to ER you are
2. Agree with spouse that if x months pass and you don't have income of y, then sell house.
3. Knowing you've got a plan, look for work the best you can while enjoying the things that won't be available once you find it like day time walks, matinees, etc.

You're in pretty good shape financially and I hope the depression dissipates soon.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:05 PM   #95
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Well, I just ran firecalc using 35 years, 70K income, 850k starting, 12K duplex income, 10K wifes income, and taking SS at 62, wife is 5 years younger so she takes it when I am 67.

I added no income from me (very conservative, I will make money). Outcome is 100% success with average final balance of 2.9 million. I didn't include the $$ (400-500K) from downsizing my house or a probable inheritance of about 500K in 10 years.

I don't know if I am missing something but this looks very positive!!
The question you still need to answer is "when to retire ?" You can get another job.

I don't understand what you modeled in Firecalc. I wouldn't feel comfortable retiring on $850k at 57 with $12k property taxes, $12k rental income, SS at 62, and needing health care.

Whether you retire now or in future, I'd expect downsizing the house to be practical/required. Adding $500k to $850k would give $50k income at 4% SWR.

I wouldn't take any "big actions" now. I would look for another job or contrating gig and do a "mock retirement" - testing "everyday retirement", not glamorous trips, and see how you like it.

Take care
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:37 PM   #96
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Thanks for your input. I was questioning the firecalc result myself so I called a friend over who is a self-described firecalc expert. He looked over my inputs and we ran about 30 different simulations. Almost all gave me 100% success with an income of 70K or over. His comment: you are in good shape and good to retire.

I now have a better understanding of firecalc. What a neat tool!!

I was planning to downsize in 10-15 years, depending on kids and possible grandkid circumstances. I may need to move that timeline up some.

I do plan to continue to look for work, as you advise. The firecalc results just give me some comfort that this is not an emergency. In fact, this could be permanant and I could end up just fine. That is just the news I needed to hear. Be careful, don't burst my bubble.


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The question you still need to answer is "when to retire ?" You can get another job.

I don't understand what you modeled in Firecalc. I wouldn't feel comfortable retiring on $850k at 57 with $12k property taxes, $12k rental income, SS at 62, and needing health care.

Whether you retire now or in future, I'd expect downsizing the house to be practical/required. Adding $500k to $850k would give $50k income at 4% SWR.

I wouldn't take any "big actions" now. I would look for another job or contrating gig and do a "mock retirement" - testing "everyday retirement", not glamorous trips, and see how you like it.

Take care
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:41 PM   #97
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My DH lost his job in 2010 at age 55. He saw it happening all around him to people in his age group. He had wanted to work until age 58 (30 years of service) and this cut it short by a few years and reduced his pension to 80% compare of the 30 year rate.

Luckily, he saw it coming and we were able to prepare financially. I could explain to him how we would be ok (I handle the money in the house) but I could not help him emotionally deal with the end of his career.

He really felt stung. And hurt and insulted. It took him a while to get over the slap in the face and the fact that he had been amputated from his professional life. He was suddenly on full time vacation and just not ready for the open-endedness of it.

I did not see depression in him. I reassured him that we would be fine on his reduced pension and that he didn't have to earn anything so he didn't have that to worry about. But he was the only one who could decide how his daily life would run.

I saw him learn to play again! He's not playing golf or tennis or anything like that. He learned to play like it's a perpetual weekend. He can start a silly project and not worry about finishing it in two days. He can go for a bike ride and come home when he's hungry or it gets dark. He will clean and polish something thoroughly rather than just enough. He learned to waste some time! I see him go putter in the garden, or the garage, or the basement. He's gotten very good at puttering!

He's also tackled some big household projects and he was a very devoted caretaker for me when I had surgery with a 6 week recovery. A few years ago he took over the weekly grocery shopping and he does some cleaning and laundry.

He now loves the open-endedness of his life. His only time commitments are an occasional Dr. or dentist appoinment or social event. He's gotten over the loss of his professional life just fine, but it did take a while to get over how it happened.

Good luck to you in this journey. I hope you get to the point where you see this as a positive thing that happened in a negative way.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:42 PM   #98
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Now you can take that deep breath and relax a little��
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:15 PM   #99
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Forgive my bluntness, but I found this to be an incredibly ignorant comment. People who are truly depressed don't choose this state and can't just "snap out of it." It is a medical condition that sometimes goes away on its own but sometimes doesn't. If one is depressed, one doesn't wake up one day and decide not to be. It is not "that easy."


I think you can snap out of depression sometimes with a change in perspective. I once was very anxious for weeks and couldn't sleep about an issue on my mind. Similar to the OP, I was worried about my future plans being ruined due to a life situation at the time. After a visit to my GP who provided some very encouraging words and pointed out that what I was anxious about was unlikely to happen and then said to me go home and sleep tonight, I indeed snapped out of it.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:27 PM   #100
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I understand here is a huge difference between a depression and a depressed mood.
The advice to snap out of it will not do any good to a really depressed person.
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