divorce affecting FIRE plans

[W2R]

Been there done that, set me back 10 yrs financially and like Ha I didn't want the divorce. I was still madly in love with her but she said 'I love you but not in love with you'. Then she hired a lawyer with a reputation and tried to take me to the cleaners. Even in my emotional state I was in on advice from close friends I fought back rather than rolling over and ended up with a 50/50 custody as well as 50/50 on the assets too. This happened when I was in my early 30s. Now that I look back I'm glad I fought back or I would've regretted not doing so even though it cost me a lot of money.

Now the current gf is getting antsy after 5+ yrs and wants us to tie the knot, I'm perfectly fine with being bf/gf forever but she wants 'to be married'. Financially we're pretty far apart even though she doesn't have any debt but very little savings. I'll be getting a pre-nup but that doesn't mean the future assets (since I'm in the accumulation phase) will necessarily be considered mine vs. community property. I hear pre-nups can be side-stepped fairly easily.

I have heard that about pre-nups, too. Be careful! Would she be satisfied if the two of you just lived together instead, maybe? I hope you can figure out a way to not repeat what you went through in your early 30's.

Frank is a widower, and I am a divorcee, so neither of us wants to ever marry again. BTDT.

 

[socca]

I'll be getting a pre-nup...

It might be better to say, "We'll be getting a pre-nup..." because both you and your gf will sign the agreement. Your gf will need to understand exactly what she's giving up by signing. Not very romantic, to put it mildly.

 

[kcowan]

No doubt the financials are an important aspect of divorce. But in the end it will often be the emotional factors that are the most important. I am still haunted by my 8 year old daughter holding on to me that night I left and telling me how much she loved me. Luckily our relationship survived and things have worked out very well, but for many it ends badly.

In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around. I put off ER for 10 years but met another divorcee and we were able to retire after 5 years. That was almost 22 years ago. Now the relationship with grandkids (5) makes it all worth it.

Like W2R, we have a partnership agreement and have no need to marry. Although we do cohabit. But sometimes I think W2R is right. Most conflicts seem to arise from occupying the same space.

 

[Mdlerth]

I've watched marriages end, and it's always painful. Even the amicable divorces still hurt like stink. The venomous ones might as well be fatal.

Before we got hitched, I told DW that the only way out of this marriage was in a wooden box, and that it didn't matter in the least which one of us was in it. I am not so selfish that I wouldn't gladly take the hit. But if she thought divorce was on the table, then the marriage was off it. She agreed.

Incentives work. Now in year 37 of nuptial ecstasy. (Maybe only 36. 1988 wasn't that great.)

 

[Nemo2]

From 2015 - my post #96

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/hiding-wealth-from-your-wife-77462-5.html

(Been divorced once, widowed once, and am now happily married in the best relationship I've ever had.)

 

[Danmar]

In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around. I put off ER for 10 years but met another divorcee and we were able to retire after 5 years. That was almost 22 years ago. Now the relationship with grandkids (5) makes it all worth it.

I'm glad it worked out so well for you. In my case my X did everything she could to sabotage my new relationship. Given this, it was a real challenge to maintain my relationship with my daughter. Called her every day and made sure we could spend time together. Movies, the Science Center, Museums, Canada's Wonderland, etc. Has paid off handsomely. My current wife (22 years) and daughter now have a very close relationship. Daughter and I have an unusually good relationship I think.

I have always thought that managing my way through this emotional morass was the most difficult yet important thing I have ever done.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

I heard a saying once when you get divorced he gets 1/3 she gets 1/3 and the lawyers get 1/3. I don't know how true it is but it sounds about right.

 

[dvalley]

All good points on the prenup. Honestly, I sometimes wish I was capable of just being single and still be happy but I just can't be without a female partner in my life and be content. I tried it after my divorce but after about 9-10 months of aimless motorcycling all over the west and other activities it got old pretty fast.

 

[youbet]

Not to change the subject, but there can be a generational aspect to the divorce problem too.


DW and I seem to be doing fine. Married almost 47 yrs and FIRED 10 yrs (me )and 15 yrs (her). And our son (only child) has been married to a gal we love (and who shows affection and respect towards us) for 19 yrs and has 3 great kids.


Nevertheless, while doing estate planning, we put in place protections for our son and the grandkids so that if our son and DIL divorce (who knows?), they are substantially protected in terms of not having to share our assets with DIL. This was easy to do in the case that they divorce while we are still alive. A bit more complicated if they divorce after our deaths.

 

[Walt34]

Divorce is certainly bad for the financial health unless one has a spouse who is a hopeless Spenderella, Prince Highlivin, drug addict or mentally unfit. Then the ongoing drain may be worse that a divorce that cuts one's losses.

That was my case, a hopeless spendarina. She couldn't stand to see a dollar in the bank and thought the solution to every "I wanna..." was charge it or take out a loan. That period of time was the only time I've ever bounced a check, been late on a rent payment, been late on a house payment, received a telephone call about an overdue bill, or had to routinely "play the float" to pay basic utilities. I expected to be "house poor" for the first couple of years, everyone else I knew was at that stage of life, but after four years it was getting old and I was way tired of the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle.

It was over when she wanted to take out a loan to go on a trip. Where I come from trips are optional luxuries, firmly in the category of "If you can't pay cash you can't afford it". End of discussion and not negotiable. Rock, meet Hard Place.

I do have to give her credit for not trying to make it worse. That divorce was one of the more amicable I've ever heard of, none of the "revenge-seeking" behavior seen so often. No cleaning out of bank accounts, running up a joint credit card or stuff like that.

But really, five years later I was much better off financially.

 

[dvalley]

Marriage is grand, divorce is at least a hundred grand.

My ex made me a millionaire- I used to have 2 million.

 

[Moemg]

Now the current gf is getting antsy after 5+ yrs and wants us to tie the knot, I'm perfectly fine with being bf/gf forever but she wants 'to be married'. Financially we're pretty far apart even though she doesn't have any debt but very little savings. I'll be getting a pre-nup but that doesn't mean the future assets (since I'm in the accumulation phase) will necessarily be considered mine vs. community property. I hear pre-nups can be side-stepped fairly easily.

Get engaged that will hold her off for a few years !

 

[Chuckanut]

In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around.

A friend of mine had a similar problem. His ex-wife told a lot of stories about how he abused her, used drugs, mistreated the children, etc. etc. etc...... He took a lot of grief from her side of the family and even some from his side of the family.

When his oldest son turned 18 he sat dad down and told him the truth - their three kids lived in fear whenever dad was gone for a long workday or overnight. Mom was erratic at best and irrational at other times. The day she left him and the kids, was one of the best days of the kid's life. It took years, but finally that truth got through to the rest of the family, mostly thanks to the oldest son who would no longer let bad-mouthing of his father pass without a comment.

 

[joesxm3]

Another friend of mine got divorced back in the early 1990's.

He told me, "I am not getting married again. Next time, I will just find a woman I don't like and give her my house."

 

[Redbugdave]

I have only been married once. Never divorced. I would say that one marriage is enough for any man in this day and age. If something happened to my wife, the risk is too great to even think about another marriage. I have one friend that has gotten divorced three times. And married three times...all to the same woman.

 

[Walt34]

I have one friend that has gotten divorced three times. And married three times...all to the same woman.

Speaking of threes, I knew a guy who bought the same house three times in divorces....

 

[MRG]

I have one friend that has gotten divorced three times. And married three times...all to the same woman.

A friend has married the same woman twice and is now going through divorce number two.

The first was a sham so they could get at his 401k to pay the penalty on their joint retirement.

Now this time it's for real. Meanwhile they started family number three(his first, her first) with two teens. He's 60 and she's 50 and neither will have a dime.

 

[Clone]

I heard a saying once when you get divorced he gets 1/3 she gets 1/3 and the lawyers get 1/3. I don't know how true it is but it sounds about right.

My sister and BIL got divorced quite a few years ago. Basically, when it was done, the lawyers took most everything of value. They didn't have a great deal to start with.

When it was all done, she was disgusted. "The lawyers took almost everything. But at least (BIL) didn't get it!" BIL didn't get anything out of the divorce, but he got the best deal!

 

[athena53]

That was my case, a hopeless spendarina. She couldn't stand to see a dollar in the bank and thought the solution to every "I wanna..." was charge it or take out a loan. That period of time was the only time I've ever bounced a check, been late on a rent payment, been late on a house payment, received a telephone call about an overdue bill, or had to routinely "play the float" to pay basic utilities. I expected to be "house poor" for the first couple of years, everyone else I knew was at that stage of life, but after four years it was getting old and I was way tired of the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle.

My first husband was the male equivalent. Any money left on the credit lien was money to be spent. Fortunately, we had only the house and the mortgage in both names but I still got exposed to the fallout from his irresponsibility.

We divorced in 1997 when I was 44. It was a happy day. I was able to keep all the investments in my name in exchange for not getting CS (which he wouldn't have paid, anyway) and we had a large chunk of equity in the house so he went away happy (and was broke a couple of years later). I moved into a smaller house and did better as a single mother. I remarried in 2003 (after we'd dated for 6 years!) but DH and I were a partnership. His tastes were modest and he and I had pretty similar values as far as when to splurge and when to be cheap. He died late last year and even though I brought most of the money into the relationship, I wouldn't be as secure as I am now without the resources we built together.

 

[Danmar]

My sister and BIL got divorced quite a few years ago. Basically, when it was done, the lawyers took most everything of value. They didn't have a great deal to start with.
!

As far as lawyers go, my divorce must have been the exception. Had 2 different lawyers over the 15 years it took to finalize. They were both hard working and reasonable. I felt I got good value for what I paid which in total would have been around mid 6 figures. Included long court case and resulting appeal.

 

[Pilot2013]

I don't have much sympathy for people who claim to be "blindsided" after thirty years. Even if the lady was desperate to hang onto her meal ticket, she would need to be the best actress in history to keep actual "hate" a secret for 30 years. I'll bet, if he would be honest with himself, she tried during the early years to make him aware of the things she "hated" and it got her nowhere. That "meal ticket" arrangement can breed complacency on the ticket's part - "hey, he/she is taken care of, isn't that enough?"

There are divorces where a surprise is justified. But this particular instance doesn't sound like anything that an aware and caring spouse needs to worry about.

Sorry, but no one knows someone else's situation. And as for "actresses", my ex-wife was sleeping around for a couple of years, with a couple of different guys and came home with a smile, a hug, (and much more) every day. Academy award winner....

 

[travelover]

Sorry, but no one knows someone else's situation. ............

I totally agree. Mine just got nuttier over time, despite my efforts to get her a competent counselor.

 

[prose3589]

My ex and I divorced right after I got out of law school. (I started law school late because we had children). Ex was/is a ne'er do well but he loves the kids. The divorce was horrible and left me broke and bankrupt. Also the main reason I focused on being a family law attorney.

I tell the clients all the time "your fight over Tupperware will buy me a Cadillac". I work very hard to help people get divorced with the least conflict and without going broke. Honestly not always possible. A few lawyers give us a bad rap too.

Now that I have a business partner the only cases I take are mediation of divorces and cases where I am the GAL- which means I represent the children in the worst divorces imaginable. Most of the time the kids have more sense than the parents.

Since my divorce I have dated the same man for 14 years. We will not marry. Both have businesses and kids. I don't like prenups they aren't infallible. We used to live together but I have decided to move. I think the relationship will be better with our own homes.

I have seen too much go wrong. I like the separation and I like having control over my life.

 

[Live And Learn]

From the person who overthinks and is overly conservative - yes, I actually DID see if each of us could still make it financially if we divorced, even though I think that is highly unlikely.

In my scenario we would both need to downsize to a very small place and we'd need to give up the dog (ok, in truth I calculated that one of us could stay in the house, subsidized by the other for another 8 years which would cover the current dog). I put the entire (current) travel budget into my budget since DH does not like to travel. The only potential "gotcha" in my plan was that I assumed that all taxable accounts would be split 50/50 but that we would each retain our non-taxable (mine is 3x his). If he didn't agree to that I"d have to go back to the drawing board.

Now if I could just predict meteors or my exact date of departure from this world I'd have a perfect ER plan ....

 

[aja8888]

One of my close friends is currently hinting (confiding in me) about divorcing his DW of 51 years. He is 71 and the marriage has been "flat" for years. Both put on a good act in public. They have been living separate lives in their house for probably 20 years. Gotta respect staying power. I'm sure this divorce will devastate the grandchildren as they (3) are under 12 years old.