Do you credit anyone or anything else besides yourself for your financial success?

[Mr._Graybeard]

No one is talking about guarantees. We're talking about making choices - aka free will. Based on the reasoning above if we have no control over what we think and do, then no other creature has either. And that means we're all just observers to the world around us, with no say. No free will. I find it unbelievable anyone could think this. Interesting, but unbelievable.

Either we have free will and are choosing what we think and do and are participants in life, or we don't have free will and don't choose what we think and do and are observers.

So you can't choose to believe that people have no free will? Then your choice on that concept is limited.

Some people have more options in life than others. When I was a child, I knew two boys who grew up to commit heinous murders. One of them was executed in 1995, the other would be 88 when his projected release date rolls around in 2042.

When both were boys, it was pretty clear that they had serious mental health problems -- not enough to get them institutionalized, but enough to be recognized as "strange" or "troubled." Were they predestined to be killers? I can't see inside their heads, but both of them killed more than once.

Interestingly, the son of the latter man is also in prison, also for murder. A new trial was just ordered in his case, about 20 years after his original conviction.

 

[razztazz]

No one is talking about guarantees. We're talking about making choices - aka free will. Based on the reasoning above if we have no control over what we think and do, then no other creature has either. And that means we're all just observers to the world around us, with no say. No free will. I find it unbelievable anyone could think this. Interesting, but unbelievable.

Either we have free will and are choosing what we think and do and are participants in life, or we don't have free will and don't choose what we think and do and are observers.

all guided and formed by other things we do not choose or will. Hence none of the above. I find it equally weird that people keep insisting on giving the idea of free well so much power that has been demonstrated over and over again it simply does not and cannot have. You can choose to think or do this that or the other thing. Why? Where did all that come from? Why that thing and not an infinite number of other things you've never heard of or imagined? And if you do well where is the reason to believe that it all was based on your doing that right thing and making that right choice because "you chose to"? There is no reason. Like I said, it's a conceit. Like animals in cartoons acting like humans. You just have to believe Yogi Bear would actually speak English, wear a pork pie hat and live off of stolen picnic baskets or the cartoon doesn't work. That's my last word on it

 

[kcowan]

My Dad was the youngest of five siblings who had 2 or 3 kids each. I was the youngest of them all. I was the only one who went to advancd education. I worked in the airforce reserves until I graduated. I paid for education and the parents paid for room and board. The Ford Foundation financed a Masters.

After that I figured I had better excell to earn their support.

It was a combination of preparation and opportunity after that.

I learned investing because of a company stock plan.

Very lucky and privileged!

 

[Letj]

So you can't choose to believe that people have no free will? Then your choice on that concept is limited.



Some people have more options in life than others. When I was a child, I knew two boys who grew up to commit heinous murders. One of them was executed in 1995, the other would be 88 when his projected release date rolls around in 2042.



When both were boys, it was pretty clear that they had serious mental health problems -- not enough to get them institutionalized, but enough to be recognized as "strange" or "troubled." Were they predestined to be killers? I can't see inside their heads, but both of them killed more than once.



Interestingly, the son of the latter man is also in prison, also for murder. A new trial was just ordered in his case, about 20 years after his original conviction.

I also knew people in my childhood who were clearly troubled as children and grew up to have very troubled lives. I often wonder if these people should be in jail or institutions.

 

[Tetto]

I credit my parents for teaching me how to handle and save money from a very young age. I also credit a man I worked with when I got out of college. He taught me a lot about investing and saving, LBYM and how to keep it rational. The rest my wife and I through hard work, perseverance and a bit of luck.

 

[gayl]

My dad who retired on military pension. The day I got my govt job he asked how much I was going to put into an IRA. Then he showed me how to figure out how much I'd get if I stayed 20 yrs. Did the same for my sister who didn't put anything into an IRA (sworn officers deal was better). Also told all of us to own dirt (aka: single family homes) as he explained property ownership

Being an orphan he knew that stuff better than most.

Going from being homeless at 17 (impossible mother) to home ownership at 24 helped me understand he was right at an early age

 

[Koolau]

My dad who retired on military pension. The day I got my govt job he asked how much I was going to put into an IRA. Then he showed me how to figure out how much I'd get if I stayed 20 yrs. Did the same for my sister who didn't put anything into an IRA (sworn officers deal was better). Also told all of us to own dirt (aka: single family homes) as he explained property ownership

Being an orphan he knew that stuff better than most.

Going from being homeless at 17 (impossible mother) to home ownership at 24 helped me understand he was right at an early age

My mom and dad set a good example of LBYM but never had any investments except a couple of properties - both of which they lost their shirts on! Possibly that's why I'm less enamored with RE for gain. YMMV

 

[Natvic1800]

I credit it to the junk mails/statements that's been filing up from my late hubby, I read it through from page to page, take advantage of vanguard website, fidelity, t rowe price and any tools and resources that come on my way. I love the public library here as there are tons and tons of free books. I came to this country with nothing, worked my b#$@ off, take advantage of overtime, saved, and pretty much it. I would say I credit from this forum too-BIG TIME.

 

[Koolau]

I credit it to the junk mails/statements that's been filing up from my late hubby, I read it through from page to page, take advantage of vanguard website, fidelity, t rowe price and any tools and resources that come on my way. I love the public library here as there are tons and tons of free books. I came to this country with nothing, worked my b#$@ off, take advantage of overtime, saved, and pretty much it. I would say I credit from this forum too-BIG TIME.

Thanks for sharing. Any details you wish to share would be interesting to us. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Magus]

No one is talking about guarantees. We're talking about making choices - aka free will. Based on the reasoning above if we have no control over what we think and do, then no other creature has either. And that means we're all just observers to the world around us, with no say. No free will. I find it unbelievable anyone could think this. Interesting, but unbelievable.

Either we have free will and are choosing what we think and do and are participants in life, or we don't have free will and don't choose what we think and do and are observers.

Yes, the zero free will is a highly convoluted line of reasoning IMO. It's even worse than believing in a low locus of control - basically zero locus of control. Which makes no sense and has no observable or statistical truth to it. It basically implies we are simply a SIM someone is running in a video game.

 

[Magus]

all guided and formed by other things we do not choose or will. Hence none of the above. I find it equally weird that people keep insisting on giving the idea of free well so much power that has been demonstrated over and over again it simply does not and cannot have. You can choose to think or do this that or the other thing. Why? Where did all that come from? Why that thing and not an infinite number of other things you've never heard of or imagined? And if you do well where is the reason to believe that it all was based on your doing that right thing and making that right choice because "you chose to"? There is no reason. Like I said, it's a conceit. Like animals in cartoons acting like humans. You just have to believe Yogi Bear would actually speak English, wear a pork pie hat and live off of stolen picnic baskets or the cartoon doesn't work. That's my last word on it

Free will doesn't mean infinite outcomes or thoughts, just simply the ability to make your own decisions. Yes, there are people with very low IQs or extremely severe handi-caps out there but over 95% of humans have massive amounts of free will. Not believing in free will is usually a convenient way to blame something other than ones-self for not doing well.

My brother and I are the poster cases for free will. 1 year apart, very similar IQ, raised identically at the exact same time, same limited opportunities (poor parents with bad financial habits although they somewhat outgrew those as we became teens), same athletic genes, similar size (he's slightly taller). He's spent 85% of his last 22 years on this rock in prison for all kinds of theftand other crimes and in the last 3.5 years has held 12 different menial jobs, spends all his money on pot, energy drinks and cigarettes and blames everyone else for his endless amount of problems and never saves a penny. He made bad decision after bad decision when he hit high school and has continued making bad decisions ever since. I made a lot of bad decisions my senior year of HS till I dropped out of college at 20 but then realized I had no one to blame but myself, got my sh!t together and went from a $7/hr cashier at a grocery store to today 20 years later making just over half a million a year (12x my father's peak income) and could easily move into the C suite for public company if I wanted to do so and make even more. I did that through a stupidly large amount of work, both on and off the job, to get there.

 

[razztazz]

Yes, the zero free will is a highly convoluted line of reasoning IMO. It's even worse than believing in a low locus of control - basically zero locus of control. Which makes no sense and has no observable or statistical truth to it. It basically implies we are simply a SIM someone is running in a video game.

The "it's always/only free will" is just as convoluted and whimsical. Strictly "once upon a time stuff" that I can see based on observable & testable data.

 

[Magus]

The "it's always/only free will" is just as convoluted and whimsical. Strictly "once upon a time stuff" that I can see based on observable & testable data.

The truth for the vast majority of Americans is far, far closer to always free will than never free will. Even things you say are not free will due to your DNA, country, upbringing, etc is simply not true, as my brother & I again are perfect examples of why this is simply not true. Being born to wealthy parents or high IQ parents or having a parent interested in X increases your probability you will do the same, but in most cases is a still a small minority of things.

One of my favorite studies of the Millionaire next door in the 90s showed that an overwhelming majority of people born into millionaire households were failures financially themselves, with only about 1 in 10 chance they would also ultimately become wealthy vs about 1 in 30 for those not born into one. Also, the overwhelming majority of millionaires in the US achieved that themselves, not their parents (ie first generational wealth), and even more true among billionaires.

Data after data shows people who believe in high locus of control do well and those who do not do not and that is largely due to people using external excuses for internal failures. In other words, people who work hard and take control do well and people who coast or worse and blame everyone else fail. I saw that in my own life for 4 years and I've seen it in my brother's life his entire adulthood. I see that in my friends, family and co-workers.

 

[F.I.R.E User]

Anyone credit this forum?

 

[tenant13]

Well in my (OP here) case it was always a mixture of things that simply happened to me and decisions based on those circumstances.

I unexpectedly inherited a small amount (luck) and invested it (free will) in Apple stock right before it took off (informed luck?). As a result I became interested in investing and made some other fortunate decisions. That pretty much got me where I am now: retired.

I’m not spiritual at all but looking back at my life I believe I was repeatedly put into situations that pushed me into making major decisions about my life’s direction. Another example: I came to US in the 80’s for a short term visit from Europe - 3 months later Reagan pushed a huge immigration reform that granted permanent residency to anyone that came to US before certain date. I applied and 40 years later I’m still here. It was neither providence nor purely free will.

 

[friar1610]

John Greaney, was in college in early stages of internet access (mid 90's) and for some reason on a slow dial up stumbled into his page, I think it was geocities.

To this day I do not know why or how I ended up there. I suspect he put the idea in my head then, or maybe I had it already and I searched. Not really sure. Regardless there was no FIRE crowd or anything. I read his page over and over and put the wheels in motion. Shortly after him discovered Paul Terhorst's book.

Haven’t heard John Greaney’s name for a long time. I was retired from the Navy after a 28 year career and working in a job I neither loved nor hated when one day I Googled “early retirement” and came to the REHP. I was retired at 58 some 7 years later.

But as to the basic question asked in this thread:
- frugal (but not cheap) parents who set the right example as I was growing up.
- a career choice that paid only modestly over the years but which had a great retirement plan.
- marrying a woman who is compatible with me financially.
- the luck of being born in the USA and having gotten a good education and, hence, a good start in my working life.

 

[Magus]

Well in my (OP here) case it was always a mixture of things that simply happened to me and decisions based on those circumstances.

I unexpectedly inherited a small amount (luck) and invested it (free will) in Apple stock right before it took off (informed luck?). As a result I became interested in investing and made some other fortunate decisions. That pretty much got me where I am now: retired.

I’m not spiritual at all but looking back at my life I believe I was repeatedly put into situations that pushed me into making major decisions about my life’s direction. Another example: I came to US in the 80’s for a short term visit from Europe - 3 months later Reagan pushed a huge immigration reform that granted permanent residency to anyone that came to US before certain date. I applied and 40 years later I’m still here. It was neither providence nor purely free will.

I don't think its a choice of providence nor free will in your example. The free will choices were 1) coming to America in the first place (most don't) 2) Applying for residency (many did not of those that did come) 3) staying after you applied (some didn't) 4) working extremely hard to succeed (small % do) 5) saving and investing those proceeds (an even smaller % do)

Everyone has things that go lucky and things that go poorly for them. It's what you do with the circumstances that define a person except in extremely rare circumstances.

I was born in the US and to two relatively stable parents which was somewhat lucky. On the flip side, my parents were poor and had very poor financial acumen. Both my brother and I had identical chance and opportunity, arguably my brother the greater chance as he is far more charismatic than I am, yet after a few years of blaming the world for problems, ills and being lazy, decided I had to change. I did, have averaged ~90-100 hours of work a week since 22 (both paid and unpaid on my own) and the rest is history for me. My brother just went further and further down the woe is me crowd and barely has worked 20 hours a week in the 3.5 years he's been out of prison approaching 40. I spent my life in the rural south and now spend much of my time in financial capitals in the western world and love to travel globally for fun (definitely not a family trait at all or something I grew up with as my first plane trip was to Ohio at 23/yo). My brother has never left the country once and the furthest he's traveled is a single trip to Orlando.

Another great example is more than half of all lottery winners are bankrupt within a few years. These people literally hit the jackpot in life yet completely fail in a short period of time afterwards, while many on this forum come from nothing or less than nothing and have succeeded exceptionally.

 

[marko]

Anyone credit this forum?

I certainly did, maybe two or three times in this thread.

As a matter of fact, for me, it was the single greatest influence. For sure, I'd still be OK having never found this site but it has saved me tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[marko]

My brother and I are the poster cases for free will. 1 year apart, very similar IQ, raised identically at the exact same time, same limited opportunities (poor parents with bad financial habits although they somewhat outgrew those as we became teens), same athletic genes, similar size (he's slightly taller). He's spent 85% of his last 22 years on this rock in prison for all kinds of theftand other crimes and in the last 3.5 years has held 12 different menial jobs, spends all his money on pot, energy drinks and cigarettes and blames everyone else for his endless amount of problems and never saves a penny. He made bad decision after bad decision when he hit high school and has continued making bad decisions ever since..

I went to school with identical twins. Born to great privilege, a well-known name, all the advantages and good, involved parents. One died from drugs at 32. The other is a surgeon. Go figure.