Do you credit anyone or anything else besides yourself for your financial success?

[Koolau]

I differ with those who attribute everything to luck, as they tend to assume that the "luck" that benefits someone is always "good luck". But there were many instances where I experienced "bad Luck" than in the long run turned out to bring me to a more successful path than the "good luck" would have.

Have you considered that your saving grace or good luck may have been your parents who as strivers had set expectations for what they wanted for their son? I’ve volunteered with refugee families and I have seen great success stories across the board from the children who like you lived in tough urban areas and went to the same rough schools some of the people you described came from.

This discussion takes me back to the Zen Master story in Charlie Wilson's War. As always, YMMV.

 

[jollystomper]

Have you considered that your saving grace or good luck may have been your parents who as strivers had set expectations for what they wanted for their son? I’ve volunteered with refugee families and I have seen great success stories across the board from the children who like you lived in tough urban areas and went to the same rough schools some of the people you described came from.

That was definitely one of the bigger factors. There have been a lot of studies that show that, across racial/ethnic lines, children who grow up in homes with 2 parents who invest in and set expectations for them have much greater odds of doing well. As bad as my parents had it at the time, they had a vision of hope that they always shared with us, focusing (or really pushing) on our abilities.

 

[38Chevy454]

Lot of good points. Agree with ShokWaveRider on the 10 rules. I'll accept the luck part of the ovarian lottery and generally good health to this point in life. Parents that valued education combined with above avg intelligence.

However I will say that a large reason for my success is by my own hard work. How many of you worked full time since 15 years old except part time during school? How many worked their way through college resulting in an engineering degree? Add in LBYM, Pay Yourself First, and being smart with debt. Married a good match financially. Made more good financial decisions than bad over the years. Result is able to retire early and have the std of living I want.

I don't attribute all of this to luck. It's hard work and being responsible for your choices and success.

 

[Koolau]

That was definitely one of the bigger factors. There have been a lot of studies that show that, across racial/ethnic lines, children who grow up in homes with 2 parents who invest in and set expectations for them have much greater odds of doing well. As bad as my parents had it at the time, they had a vision of hope that they always shared with us, focusing (or really pushing) on our abilities.

How true!

I thank God for good parents and it had to be some miracle that they were so good based on their backgrounds and experiences (Think depression era, limited education plus disability.) Mom and dad emphasized and enabled a good state school education for us kids. It made all the difference in one generation.

 

[Freedom56]

My parents and my wife of almost 30 years deserve a lot of credit.

 

[NW-Bound]

... I kept imagining living on the street, if I would actually be in lanes of traffic or at the curb and if at the curb, how to deal with the water when it rained, and the gutters flowed. I swore to myself to never get behind on debt and save so I would never have to live on the street.

Have you seen the movie "Life Stinks" by Mel Brooks?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Gayle VazOxlades "til Debt Do you Part" show for really giving me the incentive to start looking at what/how we were saving and spending at the time, with two kids and their costs.

I'm also a fan of that show. I used to try to get our kids to watch it. They are both pretty good at LBYM so maybe it helped.

 

[big-papa]

For so many of us, we'd be foolish to discount the value of "luck" in our journey.

For me, I went into a field that I was interested in. At the time, I knew that it paid relatively well, but I had no idea that over time I'd receive bonuses, Stock Options (followed by RSU's), would be able to participate in ESPP or that after spending a couple of decades at one employer that I would receive a crazy-big severance package (good luck out of bad!) or even that I would marry somebody in my same field allowing us to live on one salary for a decade or so while saving all of the net from the other.

Of course those were my thoughts at the beginning of my career - over time as I began to realize all of this, I started making savings plans around it and reading everything I could get my hands on about investing. Could I have done even better? Easy to say now because I know what I know now.

Cheers.

 

[Dd852]

I had two great bosses. One told me: “always have a f$&@ off fund””. The other - much later in my career - said: “save 15% of your salary, half your bonus, and all of your stock awards”. Both were key pieces of advice

 

[rwdflynavy]

My wife and I made bad financial decisions for a long time.

I credit mostly blogs like MMM, BudgetsareSexy (my giant excel sheet budget is based on a free one they still offer). Earlier I learned from Dave Ramsey (about spending not investing!!!).

Once I explained our plan of new frugality, my wife was 100% onboard.

 

[Magus]

Grandfather gave me interest in stocks and bonds + math at a young age (he got the WSJ on the weekend)
Parents gave me the middle class values of working hard

Other than that? Nope. Grew up poor. Had to cover college 100% myself - even dropped out and had to go back as an adult. My parents were clueless with money when I was a kid and still are to a large degree (I manage their net worth for them).

Primary keys to success - a LOT of hard work and long hours - both on the clock and off (research on my own), good attitude, learning corporate politics at least reasonably well, get a major/job that pays well (again, modest personal research). Lastly, flexibility goes a long ways in life, but especially in the workplace and making more money whether that be job title, work completed, willingness to relocate or take on a project, etc.

I did not have a wife that LBYM was going to work so I knew early in our marriage that raising my income was going to be the key to success for me personally so we actually went into debt till about 30 when I hit Director level and have maintained that spending level even as my income has gone up a lot over the last 10 years.

 

[F.I.R.E User]

One few minutes conversation with a stranger can change the entire trajectory of your life.

 

[silvor]

God and me.

While my parents taught me the basics “interest is earning money without doing anything “ , I probably had a bigger impact on them, than me.

 

[HI Bill]

Accident of Birth: Born in the USA (great infrastructure, educational opportunities, stable government (more or less with no local wars), born into a lower-middle class family, to first-generation college graduates who weren't good at managing money; Genes: above average for intelligence, below average for athletic ability, height, musical ability, general health and vision. Home town: Happened to live 1/2 mile from an office that employed geologists, and due to my lazy streak in HS, I ended up doing work experience for free for a school year; I ended up working for them every summer and break during college!

Friends: I met friends who were realtors, business people, and several sets of folks who ER'd to Maui at around age 50. They were my inspiration.

Myself: I went to the HS career center and did research on salaries and educational requirements for different jobs, and settled on one that didn't require an MS or PhD, but paid a decent salary. I started at community college to save $, and went to a state college for a bachelor's in science. I worked hard, graduated from college with no debt (thanks, mom and dad), moved when needed, took on additional responsibilities and moved up the food chain at work. Saved 6-49% of my salary annually. Invested in MFs and ETFs. Got lucky in my first real estate transaction. LBYM. Made smart choices, and deferred spending. Married someone who LBYM, hated debt, and was in sync with my ER plans. I planned for a distant, unknown future, whereas most folks can't plan for next week, much less next year, or three decades from now. Fear of becoming homeless until I was around 45!

Others here have said that while they can't attribute their success only to themselves, they like to compare themselves to others who had the same opportunities, but spent everything, and worked much longer, ending up with much less.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Lots of good luck, dumb luck - like buying a house in an area that became overpriced and trendy but wasn't when we bought it, tech career, frugal spouse in a tech career, LBYM and Google's Adsense program.

 

[dixonge]

My wife and I had fairly poor financial modeling from our parents. After generally spending way too much of our income for way too many years we were exposed to the concept of early retirement from several sources:

1. Tim Ferris' book "The 4-hour Workweek" - very simplistic and unrealistic, but introduced us to expanding the idea of a lower cost-of-living area to international locations.
2. Kaderli's book/web site
3. This forum

Then we made a plan, and:

1. Used the debt snowball concept to shed all debt.
2. Implemented LBYM, piled up savings, occasionally losing some in high-risk investment schemes.
3. Had the [-]fortune[/-] dumb luck that our jobs at the time had pensions with fairly quick vesting schedules and extremely generous employer matches.

 

[arcyallen]

IMHO, that "certain amount of dumb luck" you've had is 100%. IOW, luck is the entire reason why you are as financially successful as you are, and it's why anyone is as financially successful as they are. If you really think about it, every single thing about "you" came from places, people, or events entirely not of your doing. You were born to parents who gave you their DNA and raised you in a certain manner and environment, none of which you chose or controlled. Various people came into your life—friends, teachers, relatives, etc.—and influenced you in ways that shaped you as a person. Various random, unpredictable events happened that profoundly affected your life (e.g., you came across a book or TV show or magazine article that resonated with you). Not one single thing about your financial success, or about any aspect of your life or anyone else's, is due to anything other than pure luck. Very difficult for most people to accept this, but IMHO it's clearly true.

Some people will push back on this and say "Sure, I didn't choose my genes or the way I was raised, but I did control my good decision making. It was ME who decided to take that class in personal finance and investing and who decided to study hard and graduate with honors so I could get a high-paying job, etc., etc." But the obvious fallacy in this line of thinking is that your decision making comes from your brain, and your brain at any moment is just a combination of your genetics (not of your doing), your upbringing (not of your doing), and all the things that have happened to you throughout life (not of your doing). Luck really is everything.

I think if you believe in free will, you believe you did make those choices. If you don't believe in free will, then sure, it's all just physics and you're just an observer watching your physical body do its thing. It can be a compelling argument. I get it. But I don't believe it. I was quite interested in the idea that we don't have free will and read Sam Harris' book "Free Will". It had me convinced at one point, but by the end of the book I was even more convinced that we do indeed have it.

I feel like the argument that we don't have free will is ultimately silly - it's like saying that bumblebees can't fly. Their bodies are too big! Their wings are too small! They can't flap fast enough! Meanwhile...bumblebees flying around everywhere. I believe free will is about the only thing that IS in our control!

 

[Zathras]

My father, some luck, and society’s support (roads, basic education, etc).
If I had lived in a society that didn’t provide I would not have had many of the opportunities I did.

 

[razztazz]

I think if you believe in free will, you believe you did make those choices. If you don't believe in free will, then sure, it's all just physics and you're just an observer watching your physical body do its thing. It can be a compelling argument. I get it. But I don't believe it. I was quite interested in the idea that we don't have free will and read Sam Harris' book "Free Will". It had me convinced at one point, but by the end of the book I was even more convinced that we do indeed have it.

I feel like the argument that we don't have free will is ultimately silly - it's like saying that bumblebees can't fly. Their bodies are too big! Their wings are too small! They can't flap fast enough! Meanwhile...bumblebees flying around everywhere. I believe free will is about the only thing that IS in our control!

But what forms your free will? Everything else that's not in your control. It's like we all get a gift box in life. Some get some really nice, useful, unique, stuff. Others get a handful of Christmas stocking stuffer chotchkies. Those things form what becomes your free will. And in the end, it's not the free will that causes things it only interacts with things. We cannot guarantee outcomes. The rest of the world will eventually tell you you made a better choice choice. If it were possible to simply make the right choices that guarantee the right results we'd all simply do it.

Free will is sort of a conceit humans need to help make sense of things. I would put it in the category of planning. Plans are useless but planning is essential. D Eisenhower. No plan ever withstood contact with the enemy. C Von Clausewitz. Pick your general.

 

[arcyallen]

But what forms your free will? Everything else that's not in your control. It's like we all get a gift box in life. Some get some really nice, useful, unique, stuff. Others get a handful of Christmas stocking stuffer chotchkies. Those things form what becomes your free will. And in the end, it's not the free will that causes things it only interacts with things. We cannot guarantee outcomes. The rest of the world will eventually tell you you made a better choice choice. If it were possible to simply make the right choices that guarantee the right results we'd all simply do it.

Free will is sort of a conceit humans need to help make sense of things. I would put it in the category of planning. Plans are useless but planning is essential. D Eisenhower. No plan ever withstood contact with the enemy. C Von Clausewitz. Pick your general.

No one is talking about guarantees. We're talking about making choices - aka free will. Based on the reasoning above if we have no control over what we think and do, then no other creature has either. And that means we're all just observers to the world around us, with no say. No free will. I find it unbelievable anyone could think this. Interesting, but unbelievable.

Either we have free will and are choosing what we think and do and are participants in life, or we don't have free will and don't choose what we think and do and are observers.

 

[kgtest]

I owe it to my folks, my wife and other people around me that are smarter than I am!

Dad always said I needed to live below my means. Mom always showed me first hand that I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck, after watching her head straight to the casino on paydays. My late sister taught me that it isn't about setting bigger goals, as much as it is setting smaller more attainable goals in the short term that will amount to accomplishing big goals.

My wife has always lived frugally. Being very smart about shopping around for deals, never paying retail, and not blowing dough blindly.

This forum helped me to understand how to properly invest. Before I came across it, I was blindly investing in high fee funds, bonds at too young of an age, not taking enough risk, and in managed funds with lower than expected returns. Once I self managed the compounding really took off, inspired me to save even more and invest even more as often as possible.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I give a lot of credit to my mom and dad. Both were Depression-era farm kids whose parents lost their homes, so they were very careful with money. As I was growing up, a less-than-golden child, they made big sacrifices for me, moving me and my sister to a school system where we were more likely to succeed.

I also credit my parents' generation, who made affordable higher education readily available. Thanks to them I was able to obtain a degree at a time when only about 20% of the population was similarly qualified.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I owe it to my folks, my wife and other people around me that are smarter than I am!

Dad always said I needed to live below my means. Mom always showed me first hand that I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck, after watching her head straight to the casino on paydays. My late sister taught me that it isn't about setting bigger goals, as much as it is setting smaller more attainable goals in the short term that will amount to accomplishing big goals.

My wife has always lived frugally. Being very smart about shopping around for deals, never paying retail, and not blowing dough blindly.

This forum helped me to understand how to properly invest. Before I came across it, I was blindly investing in high fee funds, bonds at too young of an age, not taking enough risk, and in managed funds with lower than expected returns. Once I self managed the compounding really took off, inspired me to save even more and invest even more as often as possible.

You beat me to it, KG.

 

[marko]

While my parents taught me the basics “interest is earning money without doing anything “ ,

When I was about 10, I wanted a baseball glove. Dad drove me to the bank, I went in and withdrew something like $8.

When I got back to the car, I told dad: "I think they made a mistake! I withdrew $8 but I still have the same amount in my savings". He looked at my passbook and said: "No, you only withdrew the interest...that's how your grandfather does it too". We then had a discussion about interest on the drive to the sporting goods store.

I remember it like it was yesterday.

 

[OldShooter]

... Either we have free will and are choosing what we think and do and are participants in life, or we don't have free will ...

The interesting thing about this question is that there is no way we cam know a priori whether we have free will or not. IMO it certainly seems to most people that we do, but that's pretty much the end of the discussion.

Religions have struggled with this. How can one reconcile the idea of an omniscient god with the concept of free will?

Society's norms struggle too. What is the meaning of a justice system if there is no free will?