Dumb ? - what is an asset for purposes of a trust

[ncbill]

Yes. But. The grantor still has the authority to transact as well. The institution has no visibility to the fact that they can't handle their affairs. And the definition of "becomes clear they can't" is unclear... unless they are naked in the front yard howling at the moon everybody seems to think they're not that bad... the phrase I constantly heard was "they're still making decisions, they are just bad decisions".

Assuming they're still getting their mail.

To be fair mom never used a computer & the nature of her illness caused her to become very passive, so she really didn't notice that I diverted all the critical stuff to myself.

And as co-trustee I didn't have to jump through any hoops to take over her affairs once it was clear she could no longer handle them.

 

[SecondCor521]

Then what is a financial POA for? I thought they could spend my money if I was not able to do so to pay bills.

If you have are at least competent enough to not make bad decisions, then a financial POA works well. Your POA can pay your bills.

If you start to make bad decisions, then the only way to get you to stop that I know of is for your POA or other interested persons to establish a conservatorship. This requires a court hearing and order (time/$/hassle). It may not work because you may be or appear competent enough during the hearing for the judge to think that you're OK. I think there's a fairly high bar for conservatorships because they're taking away an adult's autonomy, and once established can be from very difficult to impossible to undo (see Britney Spears).

 

[G-Man]

I signed up for the annual legal plan from my employer. It's the Arag Legal plan which includes creation of Wills and Trusts.

I have a meeting with the sstate planning lawyer on Friday to start the process of creating a will for my wife and me. Not sure whether I will create a trust at this time.

For the will package, I plan to have the lawyer create the following documents for my and me:

- Medical Power of Attorney
- Living Will
- Financial Power of Attorney
- Durable Power of Attorney ??
- Beneficiary Designations
- Real Estate Transfer on Death Deed
- Last Will & Testament

Are there any other documents I should consider?

I'm hoping that TOD & POD designations and beneficiary designations will handle anything I missed in the will.

Thanks

 

[Sunset]

Just remember, POD & TOD take precedence over a Will.

So for example if all your bank accounts and brokerage accounts are TOD/POD, then there is no actual cash for the Will to distribute until perhaps a house/belongings are sold.

Meaning the Will is to handle anything the TOD & POD missed.

 

[G-Man]

Just remember, POD & TOD take precedence over a Will.

So for example if all your bank accounts and brokerage accounts are TOD/POD, then there is no actual cash for the Will to distribute until perhaps a house/belongings are sold.

Meaning the Will is to handle anything the TOD & POD missed.

Thanks...

Should I consider a "Durable Power of Attorney" document as well?

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks...

Should I consider a "Durable Power of Attorney" document as well?

I am a big fan of them. My father signed one in 2017. It wasn't needed then, but was in place. Now, with his dementia, I am taking over more and more of his affairs. Having the DPOA has made it seamless.

His is general, so I can pretty much do anything he could do. I can change addresses, make investments, deposit into his checking, file his taxes, access HIPAA information, log onto any of his accounts, etc.

It's helpful that he and I had a lot of conversations over the past five years or so about how he wants things handled. I handle things the way he wants; I just do all the legwork now.

It is also helpful that he simplified. 99% of his stuff is with one investment custodian, one bank, and one credit card.

 

[KarenF]

Check and see if your state allows TOD for cars, or you could be stuck with only your cars going through probate.

 

[G-Man]

I am a big fan of them. My father signed one in 2017. It wasn't needed then, but was in place. Now, with his dementia, I am taking over more and more of his affairs. Having the DPOA has made it seamless.

His is general, so I can pretty much do anything he could do. I can change addresses, make investments, deposit into his checking, file his taxes, access HIPAA information, log onto any of his accounts, etc.

It's helpful that he and I had a lot of conversations over the past five years or so about how he wants things handled. I handle things the way he wants; I just do all the legwork now.

It is also helpful that he simplified. 99% of his stuff is with one investment custodian, one bank, and one credit card.

So, I assume the "Durable Power of Attorney" is different than the "Financial Power of Attorney"? Please advise.

 

[G-Man]

Check and see if your state allows TOD for cars, or you could be stuck with only your cars going through probate.

I checked. My state does allow designating a TOD beneficiary on a vehicle title.

 

[badatmath]

Real Estate Transfer on Death Deed - curious what that is. My lawyer didn't mention it he was so busy pushing the trust. My state allows for beneficiary deeds on houses but he was against them for no reason I understood. Reasonably sure its the same thing but stand to be corrected.

I need to get back at this plan as I have let it drop.

 

[G-Man]

Real Estate Transfer on Death Deed - curious what that is. My lawyer didn't mention it he was so busy pushing the trust. My state allows for beneficiary deeds on houses but he was against them for no reason I understood. Reasonably sure its the same thing but stand to be corrected.

I need to get back at this plan as I have let it drop.

Someone on this thread recommended it if your state allows it. My state allows it and in my pre-meeting with my estate planning lawyer, she suggested it as well. Will find out more in my meeting on Friday.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I wanted to do the POD for my condo but a year ago Nevada put so many additional paperwork that it’s no less work than probate.

 

[SecondCor521]

So, I assume the "Durable Power of Attorney" is different than the "Financial Power of Attorney"? Please advise.

A "power of attorney" (POA) is just a legal document saying someone else can act on your behalf.

A "limited" POA is a legal document that says someone can act on your behalf for a specific activity and/or a limited period of time. For example, if you are buying a house in another location and can't be there for closing, you can authorize your real estate agent to sign your closing documents using a limited power of attorney during the period of time in which closing will likely happen.

A "general" POA is broad and allows the person to do whatever you specify in the document, but it generally says they can do anything you can do.

A "durable" POA is a kind of general POA that allows the person to continue to act as your POA even after you lose your mental capacity.

(There is also "springing" POAs which "spring" into force whenever some condition is met - for example after you lose your mental capacity. I don't like these.)

POAs can be either financial/legal or for healthcare decisions. In my father's case, these are two separate documents even though I happen to be both his financial/legal POA and his healthcare POA. But I'm sure you can imagine scenarios where you want different people in those two roles.

In the context I used it, a "durable POA" was shorthand for "durable financial POA".

HTH.

 

[SecondCor521]

Real Estate Transfer on Death Deed - curious what that is. My lawyer didn't mention it he was so busy pushing the trust. My state allows for beneficiary deeds on houses but he was against them for no reason I understood. Reasonably sure its the same thing but stand to be corrected.

I need to get back at this plan as I have let it drop.

It's just what it sounds like: when you die, the beneficiary shows the appropriate county records person your death certificate, and the house is transferred into their name. I think if you just want your house to go to one person with no caveats, it would work just fine.

If you want a more complicated implementation, like multiple beneficiaries or putting restrictions on them getting the house, then a trust might work better.

Call me a suspicious jaded type, but if someone can't articulate why they're against something in a way you can understand, and they benefit financially from you not understanding, I don't like that situation and wonder if they are trustworthy. But I probably have trust issues (no pun intended).

 

[badatmath]

Well I consulted a 2nd attorney (briefly) not a full session as I had an emergency and they were no more helpful.

My stuff is dead simple IMO but so far no one has treated it as such. It will all go to various charities.

 

[Out of Steam]

Check and see if your state allows TOD for cars, or you could be stuck with only your cars going through probate.

By the time someone dies, they may only own older cars. In a state without title transfer on death, that could make it cheaper to provide legal documents authorizing the car(s) to be scrapped on death than to go through probate.

 

[G-Man]

Final check. Any other documents I should consider for my will package?

 

[SecondCor521]

Final check. Any other documents I should consider for my will package?

It's not so much the documents, but what you want them to say. You should be thinking about what your wishes are regarding your medical care and your possessions when you get sick and/or pass away. Knowing what you want, and some of the rules for how things work, and being organized, will save you money because it will save the attorney time.

Simple example: One of the questions the attorney will ask is who you want to be your personal representative / executor. If you have to think about it, then call your brother and ask him, and he says he'll think about it, then he says no, then you call your sister, and she says yes, then that's 20 minutes of the attorney at $250 an hour. If you figure that all ahead of time and the attorney asks you and you say, "My sister Jane Jones of Miami, Florida" then that is 1 minute of the attorney at $250 an hour.

Multiply that by the 50 different decisions you have to make, and you can see how it might add up.

 

[G-Man]

It's not so much the documents, but what you want them to say. You should be thinking about what your wishes are regarding your medical care and your possessions when you get sick and/or pass away. Knowing what you want, and some of the rules for how things work, and being organized, will save you money because it will save the attorney time.

Simple example: One of the questions the attorney will ask is who you want to be your personal representative / executor. If you have to think about it, then call your brother and ask him, and he says he'll think about it, then he says no, then you call your sister, and she says yes, then that's 20 minutes of the attorney at $250 an hour. If you figure that all ahead of time and the attorney asks you and you say, "My sister Jane Jones of Miami, Florida" then that is 1 minute of the attorney at $250 an hour.

Multiply that by the 50 different decisions you have to make, and you can see how it might add up.

I have filled out all of this information already in a questionnaire sent by the estate attorney. We are clear on who the executor should be.

 

[pb4uski]

Real Estate Transfer on Death Deed - curious what that is. My lawyer didn't mention it he was so busy pushing the trust. My state allows for beneficiary deeds on houses but he was against them for no reason I understood. Reasonably sure its the same thing but stand to be corrected.

I need to get back at this plan as I have let it drop.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/... September 2019, the,, Texas, Utah, Virginia,

 

[Act2]

Consider getting a designation of who you would want as Guardian should the need arise.

 

[EastWest Gal]

We did our first wills when our son was in elementary school, which included naming a guardian as well as an executor. We updated them when he became an adult, and he became contingent executor after each other.

We also have durable POAs on one another, though we have not registered or used them. We have two; one financial and one medical. Better to have them and not need them than not to have them.

 

[G-Man]

Consider getting a designation of who you would want as Guardian should the need arise.

No kids. So Guardian is not applicable in my situation.

 

[Amethyst]

Indeed. And here's a warning: My late DH designated me as beneficiary on the few assets he owned in his name, and naturally we were each other's primary heirs in our Wills.

Nevertheless, when the holding companies for his assets changed (as they seem to do every few years) his beneficiary designations (unbeknownst to us) did not carry over, and thus his assets were thrown into probate. Cost me a lot of money and time to gain control of them.

Just remember, POD & TOD take precedence over a Will.

So for example if all your bank accounts and brokerage accounts are TOD/POD, then there is no actual cash for the Will to distribute until perhaps a house/belongings are sold.

Meaning the Will is to handle anything the TOD & POD missed.

 

[badatmath]

I have learned to check my beneficiaries every year honestly. I caught one by chance after a systems upgrade and now I just make it a thing.