Retirement is Unplanned for Many

I commented a few months ago that instead of planning for retirement, what people should be planning for is an age 50-ish UWS (unplanned work stoppage).

If it doesn't happen the rest is gravy.


Exactly! Heavy outsourcing and offshoring started a few years into my career. I figured I couldn't beat them so I joined them. I made my living training and transferring technology. I planned for an out at age 52-55 at latest. Got lucky a few times and exited at 45.


I tell young kids to save at least 15% and max out their 401K's so that they have options when employment tightens in their 50's, maybe even 40's for them. Maybe a few will listen.
 
My husband did his own handymen work for people for a few years but by 55 his knees couldn’t take it. A friend of mine did the Costco food samples for 6 months. People are horrible, kids are always puking and long hours of standing. She always had to work weekends. Not fun.

maybe it varies some by store, and by personal preference. My friend is well into her 80's. She has a stool, or a chair, and seems to like the work. They give her short shifts The pay is not too bad either. I think $12 per hour. She does need the extra income. She has done it for several years.

I think this type of work is okay if you find something you actually like and meets your physical abilities.
 
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+1

Plan for FI. Once reached the decision to RE can be at the discretion of you, your employer, or your health status.

That's exactly how it happened to me. I had planned to keep feeding the kitty for another 10 or so years. But I got blindsided and that took the better part of 10 years to recover from. Boy was I glad I had played everything close to the vest all those years. It wasn't The Ritz but I never feared for the rent or where my next meal was coming from.
 
Congratulations! :dance::dance::dance:



How have the first 72 hours of freedom been? :D



They’ve been great!! My plan is just to be for a while. Lots of things I want to accomplish but these first few days have just been relaxing. Right now I’m just hanging out on the patio with the cat lol.
 
They’ve been great!! My plan is just to be for a while. Lots of things I want to accomplish but these first few days have just been relaxing. Right now I’m just hanging out on the patio with the cat lol.

Hanging out with the cat and "just being" sounds perfect to me! That's my entire plan for my retirement when it gets here in 18 months! :D:LOL:
 
I am very appreciate of topics like this both here at over at bogleheads.

When I got out of grad school in 2010 at age 28 I had about $3000 in retirement income saved. I remember my dad and an older cousin (he was probably 40 or so at the time) told me about how around age 40 it became much more difficult to find a job if you were out of work. I figuratively rolled my eyes and was excited to start my career as a newly minted MBA from a top-30ish program. There was no way that would happen to me.

I remember sitting at my desk at my first job out of grad school, before I had really settled in and had enough to do on a daily basis, and ran spreadsheets estimating how much money I would save for retirement. In those projections I used age 68 as my retirement date. I think I used a 5% 401K contribution and a 5% employer match as my contributions, and probably a standard rate of return somewhere between 8 and 10%. The other assumption I used was a 3% increase in salary every year, and every 3 to 5 years a 10 to 20% jump in income. My plan was to change jobs every 3 to 5 years for that big raise until around age 40, and then at that point I figured I would just keep getting promoted for these big raises.

Fast forward a little less than 9 years later. I spent the last 4.5 years of my career (prior to June 2018) in a dumpster fire of a job where the management I was under at megacorp was so dysfunctional, it was proving impossible to find a job outside of the department I was in because it was so toxic. I spent 18 months job hunting at age 35 and 36 and talked to countless employers who didn't want to pay me the same wage that I was making for lateral moves. I had done enough research in the industry and market to know that based on my experience, my salary requirements were not out of line. On the high end yes, but not enough to disqualify me from contention (in most cases).

Point being, I was miserable during that time and went on countless interviews, had a number of potential offers dangled in front of my face only to end up stuck in a bad job much longer than I ever anticipated. At the same time I watched the ugly side of corporate politics take over with many people I worked with. Good people who were great employees found themselves reorged and all of a sudden they were no longer valuable to the organization because a boss didn't like them for political reasons. I've seen people let go for similar reasons.

I have come to realize that the corporate world is not what I thought it was at 28, and I would be foolish to think I would be able to hold on until age 68 (let alone want to hang on until age 68). So instead I've focused on LBYM and tried to build up as much savings as I can.

My wife and I have about $330k in our retirement savings (split between traditional 401k, Roth, and HSA), 4 to 5 months in an emergency fund, and are about 1 year away from having my student loan paid off (this in an off itself costs more than our mortgage on a monthly basis). We unexpectedly had to buy a new car three months ago, but could write a check tomorrow to pay that loan off if we needed to. My wife is going back to school to become a nurse practitioner, but between employer reimbursement and paying as we go, we should hopefully be positioned to only have to pay her student loans back for about a year after she is done with her program (if even that).

All in all, stories like these about the harsh reality of the corporate world, and the experience of people here and over at bogleheads have really helped motivate me to try and fortify our financial life. We aren't quite where we need to be, but we are in much better shape to avert disaster than we were a few years ago.

So TL; DR, lots of gratitude for the conversation around stories like this as it has helped me realize (and prepare for) the fact that working until age 68 probably isn't realistic, nor is it something I want to do.
 
Decades ago, when I was in my late 20's, I wasn't married or with anyone seriously. Since I was single and not sure if I was going to meet anyone, I started saving aggressively because I was terrified of being poor and alone (i.e. bag lady syndrome). After I got married, I was used to saving, so we always just lived on one income. I've been home with my kid for the past few years and am entertaining the idea of returning to work part time, just to get out of the house while my kid is at school. I'm approaching 50 now though and I'm not sure I'm really all that employable. I won't be heartbroken if no one hires me, but it's weird to think that it might be all over.
 
Decades ago, when I was in my late 20's, I wasn't married or with anyone seriously. Since I was single and not sure if I was going to meet anyone, I started saving aggressively because I was terrified of being poor and alone (i.e. bag lady syndrome). After I got married, I was used to saving, so we always just lived on one income. I've been home with my kid for the past few years and am entertaining the idea of returning to work part time, just to get out of the house while my kid is at school. I'm approaching 50 now though and I'm not sure I'm really all that employable. I won't be heartbroken if no one hires me, but it's weird to think that it might be all over.

This is a lot like my situation. But then my parents and in-laws needed help with serious health problems, so I delayed again and went thru my 50's helping the older generation while the younger was in school. And I made it my serious goal to make sure we didn't spend any more of my husband's salary than necessary. The kids grew up and graduated from college, the elders with health problems passed away, and at age 61 my husband was laid off from his 25-year tech job. Finally I was about to re-start my career so he could have a much-deserved break. Alas, no one was interested. Funny, I assumed anyone would be thrilled to have my experience and work ethic. We took a look at our finances and discovered that retirement was entirely possible. So far, it's been great, so glad we lived frugally and were prepared.
 
I was told by a very senior HR person in a firm that I was familiar with that this firm hired outside HR consultants such as Mercer and others to do a computer analysis of which employees to lay off based on cost.

The cost? Salary, vacations, and benefits was only a part of it. They included ESOP, options, RSU's, future growing pension entitlements, etc. Also included
was sick time and cost to the company of the the ee and family's health benefits....dental, drugs etc. This was possible because megacorp, like many, actually self insured for these benefits. They paid the insurance company a percentage fee to administer. So they had access to these numbers. This was only done in the US. It was apparently illegal in many other jurisdictions where the company operated. I cannot say for certain if this is so, just relating what I was told by a source that I had confidence in.

Bottom line, names were generated based on total current cost, and projected cost, to the company. They were generally older, long service employees. In prior layoffs directors and managers were given headcount reductions. The off the record inquiry was made when for the first time there was a headcount reduction with some names on the list that were not decided by the particular business unit.
 
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My husband’s experience was similar to Marko.

Possible exception for the stellar resume part - lay off at age 50.

Now that I can spell curmudgeon I really work on my bad attitude toward work.

:rolleyes: :LOL: :LOL::dance: :facepalm:

heh heh heh - really grateful for reasonable health thru 2
 
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Looking like at 60 he is being hired by the census bureau for 18 months as a supervisor.
 
2008 was a turning.point for my Megacorp when they offered early retirements for.all 30 year and 55+old employees. No reason to work any longer. On the other end,, they also laid off the younger less experienced newbies.I

Somehow life at Megacorp goes on with job tasks subcontracted out. I still question how they can run a $15 billion company without.experienced personnel. But my defined penson is.paid monthly.
 
Many become greeters at Walmart. I would do nearly anything to avoid that.

Hopefully, with a 30 year pension, a decently growing (until recently) 401K, and no debt, we could land on our feet without having to find other work.
 
From my extensive research on this topic it seems that the only jobs available for the silver hair (or no hair) brigade are greeter at Walmart, food sampler server at Costco or politician.

Or Nuclear Power.

It is surprising to me how many 'Nukes' are in their 60's, 70's and even beyond. I do the same job at a Nuke Plant that I did in the Auto Industry for 35+ years - except at 63 I am no longer the oldest person on property.
 
Many become greeters at Walmart. I would do nearly anything to avoid that.

Hopefully, with a 30 year pension, a decently growing (until recently) 401K, and no debt, we could land on our feet without having to find other work.

Even those jobs are going away to some extent. I will never do this type of work either.
 
This is a lot like my situation. But then my parents and in-laws needed help with serious health problems, so I delayed again and went thru my 50's helping the older generation while the younger was in school. And I made it my serious goal to make sure we didn't spend any more of my husband's salary than necessary. The kids grew up and graduated from college, the elders with health problems passed away, and at age 61 my husband was laid off from his 25-year tech job. Finally I was about to re-start my career so he could have a much-deserved break. Alas, no one was interested. Funny, I assumed anyone would be thrilled to have my experience and work ethic. We took a look at our finances and discovered that retirement was entirely possible. So far, it's been great, so glad we lived frugally and were prepared.


I haven't submitted any resumes yet. I was just looking at the jobs available for some kind of office work that doesn't pay super well. I worked in tech project management mostly, but I don't want to do that again, nor do I want FT work again. I have an accounting degree I never really used, so I though maybe I could get an office job doing AP or something like that. I might be "overqualified" though. I live in a big city and would think someone would want help, but we'll see! My husband may or may not be retiring soon (he still likes his job), so I'm not super serious about it. I'm glad we saved too!
 
So TL; DR, lots of gratitude for the conversation around stories like this as it has helped me realize (and prepare for) the fact that working until age 68 probably isn't realistic, nor is it something I want to do.

Klubbie - your experience sounds pretty awful, but count yourself lucky that you took that experience, understood its significance, and made a plan to improve your future by being more self-reliant. So many people don't "get it" until much later in their lives and have to do whatever they can to maintain their miserable jobs to put food on the table.
 
I have come to realize that the corporate world is not what I thought it was at 28, and I would be foolish to think I would be able to hold on until age 68 (let alone want to hang on until age 68). So instead I've focused on LBYM and tried to build up as much savings as I can.


I remember one day I had an epiphany- I looked around my company and realized there was hardly anyone over 55. After that, every time I went downtown during business hours, attended a conference or visited another company, I noticed there weren't very many older people. It was a real eye opener for sure.
 
My MC used to have this habit of asking us to introduce ourselves at round-table meetings, including our tenure, and this was always the kind of MC where most people spent their whole career.

After I once said "20 years" my boss at the time gave me a look of surprise, and his face betrayed that he registered immediately that meant I was over 40 (and maybe a year or two older than him.)

I heard the semi-patronizing oohs and ahhhs whenever the older group announced, especially in the 30+ year category. I heard another SVP told one of my colleagues that if you were there over 15 years and weren't even a VP you were never going to be. Tenure became the stand in for age, but it meant the same thing.

I stopped giving my tenure in introductions. I coached my own team to do the same, especially those in a similar bracket. If pressed I'd say "I started here in the 90's" (never mind it was 1990).

Of course though, there are some really old-seeming 45 year olds, and energetic brilliant valuable 65 year olds, to be found in both workplaces. The key is to look healthy, keep up, and avoid the traps of "well that's how we've always done it" and "oh remember that project in 1987 we learned it's best to blah blah..."
 
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I remember one day I had an epiphany- I looked around my company and realized there was hardly anyone over 55.

Same here. Plus after I'd been at the company for 20 years I realized I'd never seen anyone in upper management retire, as almost all attrition was due to firing. I made it seven more years and was the first company VP to voluntarily retire (I don't count the VP who retired a couple of years before I did after his second heart attack).
 
Klubbie - your experience sounds pretty awful, but count yourself lucky that you took that experience, understood its significance, and made a plan to improve your future by being more self-reliant. So many people don't "get it" until much later in their lives and have to do whatever they can to maintain their miserable jobs to put food on the table.
I've had a lot of good breaks professionally too. I fell into some promotions by being in the right place at the right time. Even though the positions were dysfunctional, I am VERY grateful for the financial gain I stumbled into.

My first job out of grad school was excellent, until a reorg put me under a terrible manager. But the first 3 years in that role were the best of my professional career. I did meaningful work, met some great people who were either in my wedding or attended it. I learned a lot of valuable skills. But that reorg showed me how quickly things can change. Overnight it went from a great job to being over stressed and worried I may get laid off since the department I was in kept being told from management we had to cut costs and to expect a RIF. At one point I remember the doctor telling me my BP was 144/98 and that something needed to change.

Either way, my perception on career has changed drastically. I still want to do good work and challenge myself, but I am more interested in being in a position to walk away if things turn south again. Whether that means a bad manager or being laid off for whatever reason (age or otherwise).
 
I haven't submitted any resumes yet. I was just looking at the jobs available for some kind of office work that doesn't pay super well. I worked in tech project management mostly, but I don't want to do that again, nor do I want FT work again. I have an accounting degree I never really used, so I though maybe I could get an office job doing AP or something like that. I might be "overqualified" though. I live in a big city and would think someone would want help, but we'll see! My husband may or may not be retiring soon (he still likes his job), so I'm not super serious about it. I'm glad we saved too!

tax work pays well enough after you have a built up clientele and is seasonal.
 
Mine was also unplanned @45yo. The son took over the co and it went to crap. They took advantage of everyone they could and blessed the good Lord gave me the option not to take it. I could have easily went elsewhere but it would have been back to physical work and my body was done! Another very important thing is for older workers to keep up technically. I watched many that didn't keep up and their worth was basically nothing to the co but yet the workers felt the co owed them something for their yrs of service? Honestly I struggled at the end to keep up technically but knew how important it was. I think it was more that I was just plain DONE with the work and most definitely all the drama!
 
I have seen far too many people lulled into a false sense of job security because they felt that they could not be replaced, that their long service would protect them ( if only they knew the opposite was true), that their employer 'cared' about valuable, long term employees, or that they got on well with those in senior positions in the company.

These were the ones who took downsizing the hardest and often had the most difficult time adjusting to their new circumstances and searching for new work or careers.

Nothing puts a prospective employer off faster than an interviewee who makes negative comments about a previous employer or who carries an obvious chip on his or her shoulder. These are flashing red lights for the interviewer. They certainly were for me when I was interviewing applicants.
 
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