When a Million Dollars was serious wealth

[Koolau]

I agree.
I know someone who has no kids and has $14 million and he loves his money - He thinks he is smart and rich and does not want to donate any money. Did not even convert to Roth and has 3.4Million capital gain (high tax if he sells it), and keeps $1M in cash, pays $25K in fees for IRA management but he decides what to buy/sell.

I feel sorry for him.

I guess the good news is that he is unlikely to run out of money even though he isn't using it efficiently. That way, he will likely never be a burden to the remainder of society. Personally, I would fault him more for his apparent selfishness than his foolish treatment of his own money. BUT that is strictly MY particular view point and I can barely run my own life!

 

[aleabo]

Ha! Our first year of marriage, ("81") we earned $18k and saved $5,380. I knew we were on our way. 40 years later we are at the same $2.7 million.
Things have just been great after the 2008 crash. It has been a fabulous time to have some already established some wealth. Yes, we are lucky with our timing, just born at the right time.

Do you think $2.7 enough for retirement? The reason I'm asking that I close to this number (not counting payed off house) and my wife wants me to work 3 more years (till I get Medicare) and honestly, I don't want to work any more :-(

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Do you think $2.7 enough for retirement? The reason I'm asking that I close to this number (not counting payed off house) and my wife wants me to work 3 more years (till I get Medicare) and honestly, I don't want to work any more :-(

I would suggest starting a new thread with a few more details and I assure you, there will be PLENTY of feedback.

 

[street]

I would suggest starting a new thread with a few more details and I assure you, there will be PLENTY of feedback.

Yes, that would be a great idea if you did that aleabo.

 

[Koolau]

I would suggest starting a new thread with a few more details and I assure you, there will be PLENTY of feedback.

Yes, indeed. That is what we do here.

 

[cyber888]

Do you think $2.7 enough for retirement? The reason I'm asking that I close to this number (not counting payed off house) and my wife wants me to work 3 more years (till I get Medicare) and honestly, I don't want to work any more :-(

If your expenses are not more than $100,000 a year, 2.7 million is 27 years expenses .. so you can retire.

Don't wait for 3 more years .. that's time wasted if you have 27 years of expenses saved

 

[jollystomper]

According to this Net Worth Calculator for those in the U.S. (https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/):


-$1M, including home equity, puts you in the 88 percentile
- $1M, not including home equity, puts one in the 90.5 percentile


It may not be "serious" wealth, but it is still nothing to be laughed at .

And as others have said, the "wealth" equation must include one's expenses.

I did not feel "rich" until I realized I had enough saved/invested to cover our chosen lifestyle without having to consider any type of paid work.

 

[FREE866]

According to this Net Worth Calculator for those in the U.S. (https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/):


-$1M, including home equity, puts you in the 88 percentile
- $1M, not including home equity, puts one in the 90.5 percentile


It may not be "serious" wealth, but it is still nothing to be laughed at .

And as others have said, the "wealth" equation must include one's expenses.

I did not feel "rich" until I realized I had enough saved/invested to cover our chosen lifestyle without having to consider any type of paid work.

Link didnt work for me

 

[jayanu]

Link didnt work for me

Take out the ":: at the ed and try with
https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/

Medical expense is a major expense in retirement. If you do not have Medicare then the Insurance can be hefty - so use that in your calculation for the next three ears of expenses.

 

[TheWizard]

According to this Net Worth Calculator for those in the U.S. (https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/):


-$1M, including home equity, puts you in the 88 percentile
- $1M, not including home equity, puts one in the 90.5 percentile


It may not be "serious" wealth, but it is still nothing to be laughed at .

And as others have said, the "wealth" equation must include one's expenses.

I did not feel "rich" until I realized I had enough saved/invested to cover our chosen lifestyle without having to consider any type of paid work.

Wealth is partly a function of AGE as well.
An individual, age 60, with $1M in either of those categories is likely in a lower percentile, FWIW...

 

[jollystomper]

Wealth is partly a function of AGE as well.
An individual, age 60, with $1M in either of those categories is likely in a lower percentile, FWIW...

Here is the same site, net worth percentile by age: https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/

- $1M, including home equity, age 60-64, 80 percentile.
- $1M, not including home equity, 84 percentile

Lower, but still at least among the top 20%. For the age categories above 60-64, the percentages do not get lower than above.

 

[2177V]

I think the idea is about living the millionaire lifestyle. Serious wealth is not $40k a year. But $40k is enough to live on being frugal in flyover country.

A serious money millionaire lifestyle in 2021 is first-class travel, A ski condo at Park City or maybe Breckenridge, A Tesla or maybe a Porsche, golf membership, maybe a boat, and a million dollar residence. $10k bicycle lol

Obviously the millionaire next door used delayed gratification and great income to achieve serious wealth and doesn't want or need the lifestyle mentioned above. .

$1M portfolio or $40K a year is sufficient in low COL area but not NYC, SF, etc

My retirement income is $100K+ in pensions, SS & investments. I live in the suburbs of SF but I still can't afford to live in SF. I am planning to buy a condo in China as a second home for 120 days each year and I also take a 30 days vacation to Hawaii using Airbnb each year. I am considered well off but I am still careful and efficient with my money. I do not fly first class very often or buy a fancy new sport car every year or live in a mansion with a maid and butler since you probably need a retirement income of $200K+ a year which is a portfolio of $5M.

IMHO $1M is not serious wealth while $5M is. I would guess most people's portfolios are between $1/2M and $5M.

 

[GravitySucks]

So being in the top 10% isn't considered serious wealth.
We are a pretty jaded group here.

 

[CSdot]

According to this Net Worth Calculator for those in the U.S. (https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator-united-states/):


-$1M, including home equity, puts you in the 88 percentile
- $1M, not including home equity, puts one in the 90.5 percentile


It may not be "serious" wealth, but it is still nothing to be laughed at .

And as others have said, the "wealth" equation must include one's expenses.

I did not feel "rich" until I realized I had enough saved/invested to cover our chosen lifestyle without having to consider any type of paid work.

That is a humbling website. You basically need $10,000,000 (without considering your home equity), or $11,100,000 (with home equity included) to barely crack the ability to be considered a One (1%) Percenter.

 

[CSdot]

IMHO $1M is not serious wealth while $5M is. I would guess most people's portfolios are between $1/2M and $5M.

Curious to know the definition of MOST?

Benefit of the doubt but I'll assume you meant most people posting on this retirement forum have portfolios between $1/2M and $5M. From reading people's posts on here it sure seems that way.

According to the Net Worth Percentile Calculator shared by Jollystomper above, a person with a Net Worth (without home equity since we are talking about their "portfolios") of $1/2M is in the 84% percentile (or top 16%), so sadly it appears most will never even see their portfolios reach that $1/2M threshold.

 

[cyber888]

I think the idea is about living the millionaire lifestyle. Serious wealth is not $40k a year. But $40k is enough to live on being frugal in flyover country.

A serious money millionaire lifestyle in 2021 is first-class travel, A ski condo at Park City or maybe Breckenridge, A Tesla or maybe a Porsche, golf membership, maybe a boat, and a million dollar residence. $10k bicycle lol

It's about affording luxury without touching your huge army of dollars that delivers high income to live a serious money lifestyle.

No happiness guaranteed! With stuff you don't really need.

Obviously the millionaire next door used delayed gratification and great income to achieve serious wealth and doesn't want or need the lifestyle mentioned above.

This multi-millionaire might live in Littleton Colorado or Salt Lake City Utah and you would never know they have millions of dollars of net worth.
But a luxury life is expensive and connecting the dots is not hard.

Even with less than $1 Million, traveling yearly to Park City and Colorado can be done - going to first class resorts, via a timeshare. I have vacationed in Park City Utah, Breck & Avon, Colorado in a 2-3 bedroom 1st class resort for 2 weeks overlooking lakes and mountains, and I only spent about $1,500 for basics for those 2 weeks. It's because of timeshare, where I can get 4-5 weeks a year, and exchange it anywhere - and there's a lot of places I can go to in Utah and Colorado. Wife and I spent $450 on airfare to Colorado or Utah, another $300-350 to rent a car for 2 weeks, $350 for timeshare exchange fees for 2 weeks, and the remaining $350-$400 for groceries/food as these resorts like Marriot have a full kitchen. We normally stay at least 2 weeks if we go to Colorado and Utah. We've been doing it for more than 12 years.

We don't really know if those 50 million houses in Colorado and Utah are fully paid, they could also have a big loan on it. I mean those Actors, Actresses, Football players, Baseball players, etc who owns these homes .. they're not good with money sometimes and they don't pay cash.

 

[purplesky]

$1M portfolio or $40K a year is sufficient in low COL area but not NYC, SF, etc

My retirement income is $100K+ in pensions, SS & investments. I live in the suburbs of SF but I still can't afford to live in SF. I am planning to buy a condo in China as a second home for 120 days each year and I also take a 30 days vacation to Hawaii using Airbnb each year. I am considered well off but I am still careful and efficient with my money. I do not fly first class very often or buy a fancy new sport car every year or live in a mansion with a maid and butler since you probably need a retirement income of $200K+ a year which is a portfolio of $5M.

IMHO $1M is not serious wealth while $5M is. I would guess most people's portfolios are between $1/2M and $5M.

$5 million is a starting point to a serious money lifestyle in 2021. It is only $200k per year which really isn't that great.

It's the ability to not touch the $5 million of principal that helps the rich get rich.

 

[2177V]

$5 million is a starting point to a serious money lifestyle in 2021. It is only $200k per year which really isn't that great.

It's the ability to not touch the $5 million of principal that helps the rich get rich.

I disagree on two points:

(1) $200K per year of retirement income or $5M is really great for most people. Perhaps not to you...but for most people who are posting.

(2) Most rich folks knows how to leverage their wealth. For example: Interest rates are super low now and inflation is on the horizon. Rich folks know that during inflation a debt stays fixed while the value of money decline. Rich folks like to borrow money at 2% using their principle as collateral in order to earn 5% to 8% on their investment. This can be a business, real estate or even the stock market. If a rich guy has $5M, he can risk only 50% or $2.5M. At a 3% to 6% difference, he earns $75,000 to $150,000 each year on his $2.5M investment. My point: He has the other $2.5M as a fall back position while risking only $2.5M. Most people cannot do that. Can you imagine people with $50M? He earns $750K to $1.5M each year in this example. It is not about not touching 100% of his principle. It is about touching only about 50% of his principle which allows the rich folks to take risks and get rewarded for it. Note that if he defaults on his business or real estate, the bank takes over the failed business or real estate and it is harder for banks to reprocess the entire $2.5M that is used as collateral because the failed business or real estate still have residual value.

 

[purplesky]

Even with less than $1 Million, traveling yearly to Park City and Colorado can be done - going to first class resorts, via a timeshare. I have vacationed in Park City Utah, Breck & Avon, Colorado in a 2-3 bedroom 1st class resort for 2 weeks overlooking lakes and mountains, and I only spent about $1,500 for basics for those 2 weeks. It's because of timeshare, where I can get 4-5 weeks a year, and exchange it anywhere - and there's a lot of places I can go to in Utah and Colorado. Wife and I spent $450 on airfare to Colorado or Utah, another $300-350 to rent a car for 2 weeks, $350 for timeshare exchange fees for 2 weeks, and the remaining $350-$400 for groceries/food as these resorts like Marriot have a full kitchen. We normally stay at least 2 weeks if we go to Colorado and Utah. We've been doing it for more than 12 years.

We don't really know if those 50 million houses in Colorado and Utah are fully paid, they could also have a big loan on it. I mean those Actors, Actresses, Football players, Baseball players, etc who owns these homes .. they're not good with money sometimes and they don't pay cash.

Yes skiing and snowboarding is affordable for most people.
The Epic pass and the Ikon pass are a great deal if you get in enough days.

If you want to lodge on the slopes and eat at the ridiculously priced resort restaurants a $40k income will not support that luxury lifestyle.
Thrown in some kids and ski school and you "Better call Saul" about a credit card bankruptcy. lol


Those $50 million dollar ski mansions are crazy. Wall-street banker money. Foreign investors.

 

[jayanu]

I disagree on two points:

(1) $200K per year of retirement income or $5M is really great for most people. Perhaps not to you...but for most people who are posting.

(2) Most rich folks know how to leverage their wealth. For example, Interest rates are super low now and inflation is on the horizon. Rich folks know that during inflation a debt stays fixed while the value of money decline. Rich folks like to borrow money at 2% using their principle as collateral in order to earn 5% to 8% on their investment. This can be a business, real estate or even the stock market. If a rich guy has $5M, he can risk only 50% or $2.5M. At a 3% to 6% difference, he earns $75,000 to $150,000 each year on his $2.5M investment. My point: He has the other $2.5M as a fallback position while risking only $2.5M. Most people cannot do that. Can you imagine people with $50M? He earns $750K to $1.5M each year in this example. It is not about not touching 100% of his principle. It is about touching only about 50% of his principle which allows the rich folks to take risks and get rewarded for it. Note that if he defaults on his business or real estate, the bank takes over the failed business or real estate and it is harder for banks to reprocess the entire $2.5M that is used as collateral because the failed business or real estate still have residual value.

That is why the Rich gets richer - money brings in more money. Inequality becomes larger - it is not a level playing field. One can talk and talk about the roots, people not taking on the opportunity and are being lazy, etc. but the bottom line is the there is not a level playing field - not only for the minority but most of the people.

Sorry, I do not know how to change it but the government (the only entity with the power and the muscle) can make a difference but the country is so polarized that the old days of gentlemen politics of compromise is hard to make it work. Just look at the division on vaccine - a life saving and yet it gets wrapped up in politics.

Luckily, we are one of the few countries that have high Estate tax which creates more philanthropy vs. passing to the heirs. So there is a good side to the wonderful capitalism.

 

[Koolau]

That is a humbling website. You basically need $10,000,000 (without considering your home equity), or $11,100,000 (with home equity included) to barely crack the ability to be considered a One (1%) Percenter.

I'll survive - somehow!

I always wonder: Where do folks GET that much wealth. I feel "wealthy" just being able to live in a HCOL area. Then I drive past rows of houses that I know are worth from $10MM to 30MM. There are hundreds of them in the Diamond Head district and perched on the hills overlooking Kalaniana'ole HWY. What kind of "j*b" does one need to do to make that kind of money? YMMV

 

[purplesky]

I disagree on two points:

(1) $200K per year of retirement income or $5M is really great for most people. Perhaps not to you...but for most people who are posting.

(2) Most rich folks knows how to leverage their wealth. For example: Interest rates are super low now and inflation is on the horizon. Rich folks know that during inflation a debt stays fixed while the value of money decline. Rich folks like to borrow money at 2% using their principle as collateral in order to earn 5% to 8% on their investment. This can be a business, real estate or even the stock market. If a rich guy has $5M, he can risk only 50% or $2.5M. At a 3% to 6% difference, he earns $75,000 to $150,000 each year on his $2.5M investment. My point: He has the other $2.5M as a fall back position while risking only $2.5M. Most people cannot do that. Can you imagine people with $50M? He earns $750K to $1.5M each year in this example. It is not about not touching 100% of his principle. It is about touching only about 50% of his principle which allows the rich folks to take risks and get rewarded for it. Note that if he defaults on his business or real estate, the bank takes over the failed business or real estate and it is harder for banks to reprocess the entire $2.5M that is used as collateral because the failed business or real estate still have residual value.

If you have a well diversified age appropriate balanced $5 million dollar portfolio you don't need to leverage anything. You let it work for you while you sleep.
Just enjoy your $200k per year lifestyle and watch that $5 million grow to $10 million quickly if the markets perform as expected.

The hard part is accumulating that $5 million and not touching it.
Thats why generational wealth disappears very fast.

I can imagine $50 million. But the thread is about $1 million dollars being serious money? It used to be.

 

[USGrant1962]

…

I always wonder: Where do folks GET that much wealth. I feel "wealthy" just being able to live in a HCOL area. Then I drive past rows of houses that I know are worth from $10MM to 30MM. There are hundreds of them in the Diamond Head district and perched on the hills overlooking Kalaniana'ole HWY. What kind of "j*b" does one need to do to make that kind of money? YMMV

I recently asked a wealthy friend that exact question. He has worked as a consultant for at least 20 years and makes good money, but not enough for his lifestyle. His short answer - OWNERSHIP.

He was, years ago, an owner of a successful small business in my industry. He sold out somewhere along the way, his old company is still a going concern.

The other people I know with that kind of money are the partners (owners) of my former MegaCorp, a private company.

 

[Rowej]

I agree with Andre!

Once you have enough to cover your expenses, you have won the game, so why keep playing!

Basically, ask yourself one simple question. Are you happy in retirement? If the answer is "Yes", then it's a good retirement!

 

[Koolau]

I recently asked a wealthy friend that exact question. He has worked as a consultant for at least 20 years and makes good money, but not enough for his lifestyle. His short answer - OWNERSHIP.

He was, years ago, an owner of a successful small business in my industry. He sold out somewhere along the way, his old company is still a going concern.

The other people I know with that kind of money are the partners (owners) of my former MegaCorp, a private company.

Yeah, I kinda knew that, yet it still seems extraordinary that so many can amass so much more than I have (and I have enough - so I'm not complaining.) I was a "wage slave" even though I was considered a professional. You rarely get "rich" that way, though I'm sure I'm considered "rich" by many folks - especially my buddy who is $500K in debt at 77. Oddly, he made more than I did if you include his wife's professional salary.

I am absolutely okay with where I am.