When Adult Kids Have To Deal With Parents Bad Choices

[ivinsfan]

Consultations with:
- a debt counselor / Dave Ramsey progran/ bankruptcy attorney ?
- a mental heath professional ?

Maybe he could go back to work?

Short of that , the social safety net programs that I listed earlier would likely be available to him if he has no assets and low income.

IRS will likely lien and levy the house if they are not paid what is owed.

-gauss

No he's 66 and in really bad shape from his diabetes can't work. He's supposed to be filing 2 year worth of tax returns tomorrow and then will ask for a payment schedule saying he has no funds. I figured he should at least file to stop the penalties for not filing and get clarity with IRS before starting the house sale process to try and avoid a lien on his house. That's the only advice we've given him so far.

 

[gauss]

The IRS will typically offer an IA installment agreement where you agree to pay over up to a 5 year period. If you go this route, just make sure the funds will be there to make the payments as a single missed payment would trigger a default and the collections process would start again.

While on an IA, no liens/levies should take place due to the back taxes.

You can research IRS IA's on the internet. I believe that the interest rate is quite low compared to what people often pay on credit cards etc.

-gauss

p.s. Do you think your friend wants to change his life? Mental Health counseling may be the most productive of all of these strategies.

 

[ivinsfan]

The IRS will typically offer an IA installment agreement where you agree to pay over up to a 5 year period. If you go this route, just make sure the funds are there to make the payments as a single missed payment will trigger a default.

You can research IRS IA's on the internet. I believe that the interest rate is quite low compared to what people often pay on credit cards etc.

-gauss

That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

 

[Fedup]

No he's 66 and in really bad shape from his diabetes can't work. He's supposed to be filing 2 year worth of tax returns tomorrow and then will ask for a payment schedule saying he has no funds. I figured he should at least file to stop the penalties for not filing and get clarity with IRS before starting the house sale process to try and avoid a lien on his house. That's the only advice we've given him so far.

Maybe I suspect he knows he’s dying slowly so why bother. Same sentiment my sister has for drinking hard alcohol with her health problems. It’s kind of dying slowly without actually commit suicide outright.

On advice, I’d say sell the house and blow the dough. Worst come worst there is Medicaid for him.

 

[Fedup]

That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

Does he have any kids?

 

[ivinsfan]

Does he have any kids?

No only two sisters who he doesn't have much contact with.

 

[jimandthom]

My cousin’s husband who is 84, spent a lot of money he didn’t have on gambling. Probably borrowing or something. It’s how he coped with the loss of his wife, the love of his life. We only heard about it because his son and my nephew are best buddies from their college years.

He was never a gambler before her death. That’s why it’s a surprise.

Similar story, sort of. My o'guy went on a nudie bar binge to the tune of $30K in 9 months. That's what I knew of. Was a wild time for him and me later.

 

[gauss]

That's the problem it's not our problem and I don't know if he's even going to listen to us, so don't know how much time or emotional energy to invest in the whole process. We feel for him and wish him well, but we have our own stuff to deal with.

Well this is a bit of a universal problem - be it family, friend, parent, child etc.

If they won't listen to reason (be it financial , or health care , etc) and not follow the professional's "plan of action" then what can you really do as a third person?

-gauss

 

[ivinsfan]

Maybe I suspect he knows he’s dying slowly so why bother. Same sentiment my sister has for drinking hard alcohol with her health problems. It’s kind of dying slowly without actually commit suicide outright.

On advice, I’d say sell the house and blow the dough. Worst come worst there is Medicaid for him.

And I've noticed from other people that poorly controlled diabetes impedes clear thought process. We live in a cold weather climate and house selling is basically DOA from now until about March so he needs to start selling stuff and belt tightening right now....your comment is spot on my DH and I think he will either engage in the process or basically will himself to die, ie not taking meds properly, or taking a little too much depression meds, which is why I'm struggling with how much to invest in this, I know he needs help.

 

[Fedup]

And I've noticed from other people that poorly controlled diabetes impedes clear thought process. We live in a cold weather climate and house selling is basically DOA from now until about March so he needs to start selling stuff and belt tightening right now....your comment is spot on my DH and I think he will either engage in the process or basically will himself to die, ie not taking meds properly, or taking a little too much depression meds, which is why I'm struggling with how much to invest in this, I know he needs help.

My sister was sort of dating or kept in touch with one guy who was 56 and had high blood pressure. He didn’t take any medicine or refused to do it. She didn’t hear from him for a while and then saw announcement about his funeral on a local paper she’s subscribed. Will to die. Lots out there. Maybe that’s the way to go without worrying about LTC.

 

[Texas Proud]

Lots of side stories and issues...


But to the OP article... I think they should bring it up with the parents IF they have the mental ability.... IOW, my mom has had memory problems for years.. a slow decline... talking to her about some bad decisions only meant we felt better as she would say she would not do it again... but did anyway... why? because she did not remember!!!


The only good thing about my mom's problems was it was cheap... buying some overpriced coins, buying books she did not need, subscribing to almost any magazine that offered her something for 'free'...


I made a decision a long time ago to not stress about it and live with the costs... if they were big to then get involved and mitigate if possible (only one time I had to do it)... she has plenty of money so it was not me giving up mine, but I would probably do the same if it were... IOW, if their mind cannot grasp it then there is nothing you CAN do...

 

[ivinsfan]

If it's parents I agree you have more skin in the game, but helping or staying out of other peoples money issues is an ongoing discussion, really one and the same IMO. So not really a side story or issue.

 

[spncity]

Elderly relative was doing much of the above - being scammed - seeming competent, but running through money to "charities" and then sweepstakes.


The family hired an interventionist to get the elder to voluntarily turn over management of the finances. Best money ever spent.

 

[ncbill]

This is not a parent issue but what obligation does one have to a friend of several decades who has gotten himself into a terrible money issue, mainly due to what I consider a long time shopping addictions to high clothes, furniture, and the like. He doesn't share with many people, but confided to us he only 1000 a month in SS coming in, spent his entire 401 in the last 2 and a half years and hasn't filed a tax return since 2015 because he didn't do withholding and doesn't have the money to pay his taxes. He's living off a couple credit cards that are almost maxed out and has an expensive paid off house where the taxes alone are 16K..he doesn't have money for that either.

He has long term diabetes issues, sleep issues and yes depression issues, so I don't even know where to begin. He hasn't asked for money and we wouldn't give him money but what practical things would you say or try to get him to the other side. He'll need to sell his house and get a small apartment, but he's basically a hoarder with really expensive taste. He doesn't have family to talk to so I don't know if we should use tough love or just say to him. "That's too bad, hope it works out", I know it won't work out for him without some intervention from someone.

Yep, it seems people hold onto homes long after they can't afford them anymore.

I'm now caregiver for an older relative, diagnosed with terminal cancer literally last month (on Hospice now) who should have sold their home a decade ago.

They would have able to live a lot more comfortably during those years (rather than spend what limited income they had mostly on the house) and would have had more choices even now.

 

[nhcycling]

My 85 MIL is living on SS; has a good sized mortgage, barely makes ends meet and needs $ assistance for heat, property taxes etc. plus requires her adult children’s assistance with daily living: housekeeping, meals, appointments etc. What gets me is the burden falls on 2 of 4 of the adult children and she thinks a good portion of her assets should be left to her lazy unemployed adult grandchildren who offer no assistance with non financial care at all, ugh!

 

[rayvt]

When it's a parent it is emotionally hard. But...

The best advice I ever heard on this topic was "Everybody has problems. Don't make THEIR problem YOUR problem."

 

[gauss]

+1
Good boundaries make for good relationships.

 

[footenote]

Or in my case... a dysfunctional sibling.

After years of hearing about his awful now-ex wife
and his vacations with his girlfriend (while unemployed)
and how he was going to skip health insurance (despite diabetes and serious complications in the past)
and how he couldn't find a job (and wouldn't consider 100k+ contract oppos I emailed him),
both shoes dropped last week:

Tuesday night phone call from hospital informing me he was out of surgery and in recovery. (He'd had ANOTHER two toes amputated.)

Thursday night phone call from him: ex finally got a judgment freezing all his financial accounts for $106,000 in back child support. (Plus he must be on the hook for tens of thousands for the uninsured toe surgery.)

Declined his request for financial support and gently suggested he sell his sports memorabilia (including a Super Bowl helmet signed by every team member), Rolex and other luxury stuff and trade down his Infinity QX. Have floated these ideas in the past, so I'm not holding my breath....

 

[Golden sunsets]

Or in my case... a dysfunctional sibling.

After years of hearing about his awful now-ex wife
and his vacations with his girlfriend (while unemployed)
and how he was going to skip health insurance (despite diabetes and serious complications in the past)
and how he couldn't find a job (and wouldn't consider 100k+ contract oppos I emailed him),
both shoes dropped last week:

Tuesday night phone call from hospital informing me he was out of surgery and in recovery. (He'd had ANOTHER two toes amputated.)

Thursday night phone call from him: ex finally got a judgment freezing all his financial accounts for $106,000 in back child support. (Plus he must be on the hook for tens of thousands for the uninsured toe surgery.)

Declined his request for financial support and gently suggested he sell his sports memorabilia (including a Super Bowl helmet signed by every team member), Rolex and other luxury stuff and trade down his Infinity QX. Have floated these ideas in the past, so I'm not holding my breath....

WOW!! Glad I'm an only child

 

[aja8888]

Or in my case... a dysfunctional sibling.

After years of hearing about his awful now-ex wife
and his vacations with his girlfriend (while unemployed)
and how he was going to skip health insurance (despite diabetes and serious complications in the past)
and how he couldn't find a job (and wouldn't consider 100k+ contract oppos I emailed him),
both shoes dropped last week:

Tuesday night phone call from hospital informing me he was out of surgery and in recovery. (He'd had ANOTHER two toes amputated.)

Thursday night phone call from him: ex finally got a judgment freezing all his financial accounts for $106,000 in back child support. (Plus he must be on the hook for tens of thousands for the uninsured toe surgery.)

Declined his request for financial support and gently suggested he sell his sports memorabilia (including a Super Bowl helmet signed by every team member), Rolex and other luxury stuff and trade down his Infinity QX. Have floated these ideas in the past, so I'm not holding my breath....

Maybe the girlfriend can help him out?

 

[kimcdougc]

This post hurts my heart. My mom passed 3 years ago. She had dementia for over 20 years. First started slowly blaming my dad for affairs with imaginary women etc. We ended up separating them. Fast forward 10 years, I caught her on a good day and asked her if she would like to put me on her accounts. She said yes! I had some paperwork drawn up (will, POA, Durable medical POA and all the important papers we would need in the future.) Found her lucid on another good day and she signed all the paperwork and we had it all notarized.

Thank you God we did it before she was gone too far with the dementia. 3 years before she passed she started calling and saying she wanted her money so she could give $1,000 to Jimmy Swaggart, wanted to buy a new car, wanted to run away, which I wouldn't have minded except she was living paycheck to paycheck (SS and my Dad'd retirement) since I was handling the bills for two households since we had to separate them a few years earlier. They had no extra money to blow. In the old days my mom was great with money.

She would get angry and defensive. She accused me specifically of stealing. She checked her bank account everyday by going to the ATM. She hid cash everywhere. It had gotten really bad and she was diagnosed with lung and adrenial cancer. Hospice was brought in. The social worker didn't believe us about the dementia until she did. You see my mom was quite convincing with others who didn't know her. One day when the social worker was there she saw my mom get worked up because she thought we (my sisters and I) were stealing etc from her. Long story short we were so thankful the Lord took her home before we had to put her someplace.

If you notice your parent or loved one is "different" or is starting to forget, try to get them on a good day to have paperwork signed so someone who cares about them can take over for them.

Today, my dad is very thankful we did all we did when we did it, otherwise he would be very poor. Had we not stepped in when we did we would all be paying some every month for his care.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[footenote]

Maybe the girlfriend can help him out?

She dumped him a few months ago - quelle surprise!

 

[Golden sunsets]

This post hurts my heart. My mom passed 3 years ago. She had dementia for over 20 years. First started slowly blaming my dad for affairs with imaginary women etc. We ended up separating them. Fast forward 10 years, I caught her on a good day and asked her if she would like to put me on her accounts. She said yes! I had some paperwork drawn up (will, POA, Durable medical POA and all the important papers we would need in the future.) Found her lucid on another good day and she signed all the paperwork and we had it all notarized.

Thank you God we did it before she was gone too far with the dementia. 3 years before she passed she started calling and saying she wanted her money so she could give $1,000 to Jimmy Swaggart, wanted to buy a new car, wanted to run away, which I wouldn't have minded except she was living paycheck to paycheck (SS and my Dad'd retirement) since I was handling the bills for two households since we had to separate them a few years earlier. They had no extra money to blow. In the old days my mom was great with money.

She would get angry and defensive. She accused me specifically of stealing. She checked her bank account everyday by going to the ATM. She hid cash everywhere. It had gotten really bad and she was diagnosed with lung and adrenial cancer. Hospice was brought in. The social worker didn't believe us about the dementia until she did. You see my mom was quite convincing with others who didn't know her. One day when the social worker was there she saw my mom get worked up because she thought we (my sisters and I) were stealing etc from her. Long story short we were so thankful the Lord took her home before we had to put her someplace.

If you notice your parent or loved one is "different" or is starting to forget, try to get them on a good day to have paperwork signed so someone who cares about them can take over for them.

Today, my dad is very thankful we did all we did when we did it, otherwise he would be very poor. Had we not stepped in when we did we would all be paying some every month for his care.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh how sad. I’ve had Mom’s POA for a long time although I did’t swoop in until it became clear she had significant memory loss. She says some crazy things-thinks her parents are still alive- tries to leave to “go home”. I used to try to reorient her but realized that’s a lost cause and just upset her. Now I live in her world when I visit.

 

[HadEnuff]

In the mid 1970s, FIL and MIL were working, never had a lot of money. MIL decided to "retire", so they were living on one income, which was adequate for living, but inadequate for saving for retirement. Then when FIL hit the earliest possible age to start pulling SS, he quit.
Then they did some traveling.
I could see the plan, as both daughters had married guys who had nice incomes. My BIL did very very very well. My marriage failed, and former BIL (who is a great guy) got stuck taking care of them, and is still taking care of MIL. FIL passed away a while ago.

So, what are you going to do? I could see it coming, could do nothing about it, and am sure it would have been a huge hit to my ability to retire when I did, had I stayed married to their daughter.

 

[Bestwifeever]

This post hurts my heart. My mom passed 3 years ago. She had dementia for over 20 years. First started slowly blaming my dad for affairs with imaginary women etc. We ended up separating them. Fast forward 10 years, I caught her on a good day and asked her if she would like to put me on her accounts. She said yes! I had some paperwork drawn up (will, POA, Durable medical POA and all the important papers we would need in the future.) Found her lucid on another good day and she signed all the paperwork and we had it all notarized.

Thank you God we did it before she was gone too far with the dementia. 3 years before she passed she started calling and saying she wanted her money so she could give $1,000 to Jimmy Swaggart, wanted to buy a new car, wanted to run away, which I wouldn't have minded except she was living paycheck to paycheck (SS and my Dad'd retirement) since I was handling the bills for two households since we had to separate them a few years earlier. They had no extra money to blow. In the old days my mom was great with money.

She would get angry and defensive. She accused me specifically of stealing. She checked her bank account everyday by going to the ATM. She hid cash everywhere. It had gotten really bad and she was diagnosed with lung and adrenial cancer. Hospice was brought in. The social worker didn't believe us about the dementia until she did. You see my mom was quite convincing with others who didn't know her. One day when the social worker was there she saw my mom get worked up because she thought we (my sisters and I) were stealing etc from her. Long story short we were so thankful the Lord took her home before we had to put her someplace.

If you notice your parent or loved one is "different" or is starting to forget, try to get them on a good day to have paperwork signed so someone who cares about them can take over for them.

Today, my dad is very thankful we did all we did when we did it, otherwise he would be very poor. Had we not stepped in when we did we would all be paying some every month for his care.

Just my 2 cents.

A couple of months ago DH and I had all that paperwork updated and signed POAs for our kids and told them to take over if they ever thought we were gaga—didn’t want them to have to prove it. We all hope it won’t come to that.