Will An Economic Stimulus Package Work?

[jazz4cash]

I have suspected this SS contribution scenario was a significant piece of the illegal immigration puzzle for quite awhile, but I never knew for sure. Thanks for the links.

 

[Rustic23]

I guess the point I keyed on was
Do illegal immigrants file federal income tax returns?

I was thinking from the point of view of the illegal immigrant filing a tax return not the payment of SS. From what I have seen most illegals avoid government agencies.

As I said not attempt to hijack thread, and I have no qualms with the fact that illegals pay SS and Income Tax as it is withheld and most likely more than what they owe. To discuss it further we should start a thread.

 

[2B]

One thing you're missing about the illegal immigrant and phony social security card is that employers are supposed to access an on line database that will tell them if the name and number match. If they don't verify the number then they are liable for employing someone without the right to work in the US. The courts are still battling it out but this verification step is making it harder for illegals to hold "real" jobs.

The primary employment of illegals from my experience is cash jobs without any withholdings.

 

[retire@40]

The more I think about this $800-a-person rebate, the more I get upset that they originally took $800 more from me than they needed.

 

[Alan]

One thing you're missing about the illegal immigrant and phony social security card is that employers are supposed to access an on line database that will tell them if the name and number match. If they don't verify the number then they are liable for employing someone without the right to work in the US. The courts are still battling it out but this verification step is making it harder for illegals to hold "real" jobs.

The primary employment of illegals from my experience is cash jobs without any withholdings.

I think this database is very recent and there is no legal requirement for employers to use it (it is certainly not enforced).

Arizona has passed state legislation that it will enforce this, and it is being challenged in court as the database they are using is a federal database. Meanwhile it is working, many illegals are leaving the state, either back to Mexico or to other states.

Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona - CNN.com

In context to this thread, I agree that any rebates are probably not going to make it to this segment of tax payers.

 

[Independent]

The "unofficial White House plan" is to suspend the 10% tax code rate, which is the bottom rate that everyone with taxable income actually pays. The intention of the plan is to give a rebate to anyone who pays income taxes, which would include ER's like many of us. It's interesting to note that 57 million Americans pay no federal income taxes at all, and would receive no benefit under the administration's proposal. This group of people includes 30 million low wage earners and the rest mostly retirees. Democrats are pushing to extend the White House plan by including everyone who filed an income tax return, whether or not they actually paid taxes. The bottom line is that President Bush would like to include us ER's who pay income taxes receive the $800/$1600 tax rebate and not just w*rking foks.

Bush, Democrats Spar on Stimulus - WSJ.com

This is why it will take a while to pass something. The democrats would also pick up people who don't (necessarily) file income taxes by increasing the value of "food stamps", which are really more like debit cards today. They would also extend unemployment benefits. Bush will call both of these ideas "increased spending" and say that he is only interested in "tax cuts".

 

[Helena]

If this one is similar to the last tax rebate,
not everyone will get it and the amounts
rebated to individual taxpayers will differ.

Don't spend the money until you read the
small print !!

 

[Meadbh]

Most certainly they do, well many of them do. That is one of the intriguing things. They get a valid tax id, get W-2's and file income taxes each year, but get no credit for SS. One of the proposed law changes was to allow illegal immigrants who finally get legal status to pay a fee of about $5K to allow them to have their back SS payments credited.

We know a couple from Uraguay who have here about 9 years. She works in a child care center (she was a primary school teacher in Uraguay) and he works 2 jobs at restaurants (he did work in the Commerce department in Uraguay). They have a son who is a senior at High School and still own their home back in Uraguay. I think that if you are employed and file taxes every year the government turns a blind, and unlike citizens they pocket both the employer and employee SS contributions.

Very strange, but true

That is truly amazing. Taxation without representation. It just shows the extent of government expediency. Anyone with a tax return is traceable and therefore deportable. But that would reduce the pool of cheap labour so the US government turns a blind eye. One wonders what will happen in a recession when legal US residents want a job, any job. These people are so vulnerable.

 

[Zoocat]

The more I think about this $800-a-person rebate, the more I get upset that they originally took $800 more from me than they needed.

Have you taken a look at the Federal debt lately? This "rebate" is nothing more than another loan taken out against your children's future.

 

[mathjak107]

a survey was taken with the last rebate given out. it showed only 21 % of the population actually spent it .

this 157 billion rebate is only 1% of gdp. its barely 1 month of spending. i think its nice but will not do a thing

 

[FIRE'd@51]

this 157 billion rebate is only 1% of gdp. its barely 1 month of spending. i think its nice but will not do a thing

I don't follow your arithmetic. Wouldn't 1% of the annual GDP be more like 3.6 days of spending?

 

[Puppy Belly]

No cash rebate. Give Debit Card that is un-redeemable for cash and not spendable unless SSN imbedded in card is pin'd in at purchase.

 

[mathjak107]

I don't follow your arithmetic. Wouldn't 1% of the annual GDP be more like 3.6 days of spending?

maybe, i think i have a decimal wrong. ha ha math wasnt one of my strong points.

 

[chinaco]

Economist would say it will work (to some degree)... How long it takes for it to take effect and if the effect is adequate, is the real question.

 

[armor99]

That is truly amazing. Taxation without representation. It just shows the extent of government expediency. Anyone with a tax return is traceable and therefore deportable. But that would reduce the pool of cheap labour so the US government turns a blind eye. One wonders what will happen in a recession when legal US residents want a job, any job. These people are so vulnerable.

Just a small observation..... These people MADE themselves vulnerable. Why does everyone assume that illegal immigrants are not intelligent? They knew they were breaking the law when they came here. The real question is why is Mexico unable to offer it's own people a viable way of life? I would think that if most mexicans could make a decent living at home, they would much prefer to stay in Mexico. Perhaps we should start blaming the Mexican goverment here. If they were doing their job, Mexicans would no longer feel the NEED to come here anymore.
That being said.... I believe there are many reasons that the US has been turning a blind eye to the immigration problem for so long. And as you have clearly pointed out, most of it is money related. Not sure about the tax return thing, I would need to read more about that one. However there are taxes that are being taken from them all the time, and most will never claim social security. I would think that most politicians would view this as very helpful. More people paying in than pay out really helps SS solvency problems. There are some that have even gone so far as to claim that illegals are helping to "prop up" the SS system...

 

[Meadbh]

Just a small observation..... These people MADE themselves vulnerable.

Actually I would argue that they always were vulnerable and are willing to take more risks in the hope of improving their situation.

 

[podey]

Although I don't think it's the best idea in the world to add to the federal deficit, I'd probably put $400 towards student loans and $400 towards down payment on an apartment. That is, if there isn't caps on salary.

 

[Retire Soon]

Tentative Agreement Reached

There has been a tentative agreement reached in the stimulus package:

Free Preview - WSJ.com



Tentative Deal Reached on Tax Rebates - washingtonpost.com

 

[militaryman]

I guess if you are retired you do not get anything?

 

[Retire Soon]

I guess if you are retired you do not get anything?

I had exactly the same question, based upon the two articles. I am hoping that the word "wo*king" was incorrectly used by the reporters. Otherwise it would be an act of blatant discrimination against prudent people who put a lot of planning into their future, such as us ER folks.

 

[dumpster56]

I see the tentative package, lets see my wife gets zero, did not work last year. I get 300 dollars. Wow. But then again if the government is counting on the likes of me to spend well they are going to well.... BUT the 300 would pay for the new small tv for the bedroom... Hummm... This is what our elected leaders are doing!? This quite frankly is an embarrassement, Better we should rebuild the american railroads, The roads and bridges, put people back to work real work fixing the darn broken parts of the infrastructure. Start building 50 new nuke power plants, on and on, but nah give americans a few more dollars that the government will have to borrow to have the fat american family go to the mall and spend.

Pelosi, Bush, they all stink.

 

[JPatrick]

I guess if you are retired you do not get anything?

I keep hearing that this is based upon "taxpayer status." One would think that the package would be blind as to the generator of those taxes, be it taxes on w*rk or on a pension, or taxes on investments.
Taxes is taxes dang it!

 

[retire@40]

There's more info here...

FOXNews.com - House, White House Reach Deal 'In Principle' on Economic Stimulus - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

 

[Helena]

For a week the media has been telling people the rebates
would be $800/$1600 [the Bush plan]... how many people
have already spent that on their credit cards !



" Pelosi, D-Calif., agreed to drop increases in food stamp and unemployment benefits during a Wednesday meeting in exchange for gaining rebates of at least $300 for almost everyone earning a paycheck, including low-income earners who make too little to pay income taxes.


Families with children would receive an additional $300 per child, subject to an overall cap of perhaps $1,200, according to a senior House aide who outlined the deal on condition of anonymity in advance of formal adoption of the whole package. Rebates would go to people earning below a certain income cap, likely individuals earning $75,000 or less and couples with incomes of $150,000 or less. "

Deal Reached on Tax Rebates for Stimulus

 

[FIRE'd@51]

I noticed the bill includes allowing Fannie and Freddie to purchase loans up to $700K instead of just $417K. IMO, this should be helpful to the housing situation.